Dear Dorothy: You bring up a very good point about the names for these people. I do get into quite a juggling act with many of these people and keeping track of the official given names, the Dutch to English translations, the "pet" names, and often the transcriber's tendency to take license with spellings, etc. Then complicate this with the variants of the surname and it is a "jungle out there". This is a prevalent problem throughout the SCHOUTEN lines of the New Netherlands origins. As you say "Lena" could have evolved from Magdalena Joosten, and since Adrian Schouten of Staten Island currently seems to have been an "immaculate conception" or hatched...it is good reasoning and starting point. Anthony Scout of Bucks County, PA, refers to his daughter in his Last Will as Elinor, so my work and compiling will generally refer to her as Elinor, as my focus is on the SCHOUTEN/SCOUT lines. It is interesting though that the Sutphin's generally refer to her as Lanah and the Scout's refer to her as Elinor. I always note this as an AKA Lanah in my database. Several of her grand daughters end up being named Hannah or Helena. I have the copy of Anthony Scout's Last Will, so I have seen with my own eyes that Anthony used the "English" name Elinor. It seems "Elinor" was used interchangeably with "Lanah" throughout her life. It also seems that old Anthony was intent in most everything he did to make the "English" transition for his family, and it appears this was important to him based on other documentation for this family. Elinor's husband's Last Will refers to her as "Leanah". Taking into consideration that these Colonials were notoriously poor spellers and that everyone spelled things phonetically, "Elinor" is used in post-1790 Scout family record for her, except her Last Will in which it is recorded once again as "Lanah". Lanah/Elinor Scout married Abraham Sutphin (another New Netherlands family of whom several branches migrated to Bucks County, PA.) And Sutphin is another naming nightmare. Sources: Wills: Abstracts: Book 5 : Bucks Co, PA 1786-1797; some earlier dates not previously recorded. SCOUT, Anthony. Warminster Twp. April 9, 1791. 5.258. 5.258. Anthony Scout of Warminster Twp. April 10, 1789. Proved April 9, 1791. Son-in-law Abraham Sutfan and Neighbor Daniel Longstreth exrs. Ch. James, Adrian, Anthony, William, Elinor and Mary. Gddau. Rachel, dau. of son Andrew December'd. Gddau. Mary dau. of son Thomas, December'd. Wits: Giles Craven, Harman Vansant, Elcie Vansant. Wills: Abstracts: Book 8: Bucks Co, PA 1808-1815 8.358. Lanah Sutphin, Warminster Twp,. widow. April 27, 1812. Proved October 9, 1813. Abraham McDowell exr. Daus. Mary McDowell and Ann Delaney. Gch. Eliza and Helena Delaney ch. of Jonathan and Ann. Wits: William Delaney and Eliza Delaney. Wills: Abstracts: Book 8: Bucks Co, PA 1808-1815 8.128. Abraham Sutphin, Warminster Twp., yeoman. June 14, 1804. Proved March 31, 1810. Wife Leanah. John McDowell and Jonathan Delaney exrs. Dau. Mary McDowell Lot of land where she lives in Warminster adj. James and Anthony Scout and Charles Vansant. Dau. Ann Delaney land on which I live adj. Harman Vansant and Anthony Scout. Dau. Elizabeth Craven land adj. above. Wits: Nathaniel Boileau, John Hunter. Thanks for your interest. Keep the ideas coming! Best regards, Virginia -----Original Message----- From: =KOEN9001=Dorothy Koenig [mailto:dkoenig@lmi.net] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:56 PM To: Virginia Jones Subject: RE: [NYDUTCH] Fw: re Scouten Dear Virginia, I just wanted to tell you that I enjoyed your complex SCHOUTEN message very much. I just want to comment on this paragraph: "But I have good reason to believe Adrian Schouten is the father of Anthony Scout of Warminster Bucks County, PA, and therefore is very likely a direct ancestor of mine. Ary and his wife appear as sponsors to baptism of Anthony's first child Lena (Elinor). Low Dutch Reformed Church at Neshaminy & Bensalem 1736, 27 Oct: Lena, child of Aentone SCHOTTEEN & Marytye KREBEN witnesses: Ari SCHOUTEN & his wife" Your Anthony is no doubt one of the older children of Adrian Schout and Maria Van Pelt since "Anthony" was named for his maternal grandfather, Anthony Teunisz Van Pelt. Adrian's son Anthony's daughter "Lena" may have been named for her maternal great-grandmother, Magdalena Joosten. I didn't know if this Lena Schout later adopted the name "Elinor" or if you were equating the names. Dorothy