Mrs. Lee~ Thank you for your reply to my query; however, I think a few things need to be cleared-up. Professional researchers can and are classifed as being a "commercial" service. They are in business to make money for their own profit. The societies that you are referring to, however, are non-profit organizations, whose fees are actually used for the society's maintenance. The persons involved in these societies receive no compensation from any fees or dues or whatever. Having been a past-officer of one such society, I can tell you from first-hand knowledge that contrary to what you state, "...that these societies will only assist those individuals paying dues", quite the opposite is true. I personally have spent hours and hours researching for NON-members who have contacted our particular society with questions and I have done so without ever receiving any money or having the society receive any money for my research from these NON-members! Please advise me of any "commercial" individual researcher who would do the same. Rootsweb "Acceptable Use Policy" is written the way it is for a reason.......there is a difference! Sincerely, Sharon Barber

Sharon: I know exactly who you are: you are a former officer of the now-DISSOLVED (and it was NOT a "simple name change" as Mary Bryant continues to claim. I sure wish she'd quit beating that dead horse!) Enchanted Mountains Genealogy Society (EMGS), and now are involved with Painted Hills. Frankly, I have better things to do than play "monitor" to see who's posting what to the boards and lists (frankly, only a select few from PHGS need babysitting), but since you opened the door I am going to step through and have my say. And I couldn't agree with you more - there are a few things that need to be cleared up. 1. Who appointed you the "ad police" for the usgenweb boards & lists? 2. You write: "The societies that you are referring to, however, are non-profit organizations, whose fees are actually used for the society's maintenance. The persons involved in these societies receive no compensation from any fees or dues or whatever." I WAS referring to Painted Hills in my initial post, and it's my opinion that money IS one of the issues with that bunch. Enchanted Mountains was DISSOLVED by the founder after it was discovered that the continuing bad behavior of the president would likely get him sued. The president refused to step aside, so the Society was dissolved. Period. When EMGS was dissolved the bylaws were NOT followed in that assets (computers, supplies, books, &c) were not sold and the monies generated from said sale were not distributed to various historical and genealogical societies in the EMGS area. WHY DIDN'T THIS HAPPEN?! As far as I'm concerned, it was a clear case of Painted Hills looting the EMGS coffers. What's the point of! having bylaws if they aren't going to be followed? Do you really think Fortune 500 companies have bylaws in place just for show? If I were a member at the time EMGS was dissolved I would certainly have a lot of questions about how all of that was handled! 3. You further write: "Please advise me of any "commercial" individual researcher who would do the same." I can name one with no trouble! ME! I've been a college genealogy instructor and newspaper genealogy columnist. I write books, write grants, and assist societies with their newsletters. I also have been a professional researcher for years and I have assisted many people at no charge whatever. I am involved with genealogy because I enjoy the work, I have met many nice people, and I believe that preserving the history of this nation is important, and I've donated more hours in the past fifteen years than I'd ever be able to track. And I am not alone, many professional researchers volunteer many, many hours off the books. I think your comment implying that commercial individual researchers do not volunteer was not only unfair, it was totally out of line. You evidently do not know any professional researchers and an apology is in order. For some reason Painted Hills seems to think anybody doing anything within the counties of Allegany, Cattaraugus, McKean and Potter is competition. Why? It's okay for PHGS to post continuously to the boards & lists advising people to visit their site (and join the club), but it's a no-no if anybody else attempts to assist. Frankly, I agree with you to a point about there being a difference between professional researchers posting and non-profit societies posting, but I have yet to see any evidence that PHGS is non-profit, considering its past history. Just because there is a claim to be non-profit, and the Web address ending (.org) is reserved for non-profit groups, doesn't make PHGS non-profit! Do you really think people are that stupid? A few words of advice: First, PHGS dug their own hole. It wasn't some independent researcher, a county coordinator or anybody else involved with genealogy that resulted in the downfall of EMGS and the subsequent bad reputation that was carried over to PHGS. PHGS, because many of the same people are involved, will continue to have to prove that it has changed for the better, and to date I have not seen any evidence that it has. Clean house, and start at the top. Second, Painted Hills should discontinue the practice of nosing around other peoples' business and start working on cleaning up their own backyard. What little credibility that group had is hanging by a thread. Each time someone heavily involved with PHGS, such as yourself, opens their mouth they only shine the light on PHGS, and not in a postive manner. One would have to be wearing blinders to not see a problem, considering PHGS is persona non grata at so many usgenweb sites, historical societies and courthouses. If PHGS is so great why aren't they being welcomed with open arms? If PHGS is so fantastic why are the officers & "staff" banned from the lists? Third, PHGS is run just as EMGS was - a dictatorship. I belong to, and am active in, nearly two dozen historical and/or genealogical societies and NOT ONE fails to have open elections on a yearly basis. I suppose the lesson that could have been learned from the demise of EMGS was not heeded. I find it incredibly dismaying (and wrecklessly irresponsible) that in today's society so much power is given to one individual, and that individual has already been responsible for the demise & dissolution of one on-line genealogy society. Perhaps a key to gaining some credibility in the genealogy world would be to hold open elections and let the members vote for officers. And please don't insult me by stating that all of the members agree with the current roster of officers. Just because I chose not to be a member does not mean that I do not know what's going on behind the closed doors of PHGS. Having a president appoint her best pals & buddies to fill roles of officers just becau! se they follow her and do not rock the boat is, in the kindest sense of the word, "Napoleon-esque." I am sick and tired of this nonsense with PHGS. PHGS is like a wayward child that refuses to accept the blame, and is continually trying to shift the focus onto others. Well, it isn't working. Anybody wanting the TRUE story on EMGS/PHGS can email me at gobigred@theriver.com - I'll tell it exactly like it is. And it's not a pretty picture. Maureen M. Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon E. Barber" <ajbar@netsync.net> To: <gobigred@theriver.com> Cc: <PAMCKEAN-L@rootsweb.com>; <NYCATTAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 20 January, 2003 9:21 AM Subject: Re: Advertising on Rootsweb Lists > Mrs. Lee~ > Thank you for your reply to my query; however, I think a few things need > to be cleared-up. > > Professional researchers can and are classifed as being a "commercial" > service. They are in business to make money for their own profit. The > societies that you are referring to, however, are non-profit > organizations, whose fees are actually used for the society's > maintenance. The persons involved in these societies receive no > compensation from any fees or dues or whatever. > > Having been a past-officer of one such society, I can tell you from > first-hand knowledge that contrary to what you state, "...that these > societies will only assist those individuals paying dues", quite the > opposite is true. I personally have spent hours and hours researching > for NON-members who have contacted our particular society with questions > and I have done so without ever receiving any money or having the > society receive any money for my research from these NON-members! > > Please advise me of any "commercial" individual researcher who would do > the same. > > Rootsweb "Acceptable Use Policy" is written the way it is for a > reason.......there is a difference! > > Sincerely, > Sharon Barber > >

Do we have a moderator for this list who would like to direct the posters back to genealogy? Thank you. Kristine mcgowancountry@earthlink.net

FLAMES Folks, you don't know how it pains me to have to revisit this issue. That the primary purpose of this list is Genealogy. We would do well to stick to that. However, I do understand that occasionally there are conflicts of opinions on many issues in the genealogy field. For the most part, this is acceptable, as long as the discussion is respectful, mindful of the feelings of others, stays "on point", and is conducted in a friendly manner. I will tolerate such discussions on this list as long as they remain objective and, in my opinion, are not offensive to other subscribers. If you have doubts about what you are about to post being acceptable, then you probably should sleep on it a night or two before posting. What I will not tolerate, is derisive, or negative remarks that are directed specifically to, or about, a individual. If someone posts such a message, I can't undo their post. I can't un-ring a bell. . But what I can,....... and will do......., is put anyone who engages in disruptive activity on a "monitor" status. I will review any post they make before their messages are released to the list. Repeat offenders will be unsubscribed. COMMERCIAL ADVERTISEMENTS First, let me state that if you feel that a post is inappropriate on this list, I would appreciate it if you email me, rather than posting a comment on the list. I will review it and respond to you directly. Because this issue seems to be a repeated topic of discussion, I will post what my criteria are in deciding what is, and what is not a commercial advertisement. I will do this within the next day or two, most likely on this list, as well as on our NYCATTAR web site, and in the LINKS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS link on the Cattaraugus Message Board. I invite you to email me directly with any comments on these or any other issues about this LIST or the MESSAGE BOARDS that concern you. Dick Allen List Administrator email: nycattar@rochester.rr.com