Why don't we stop this bickering and stigk to GENEAOLOGY? Tim kf6dfk@surfside.net -----Original Message----- From: The Lee Family [mailto:gobigred@theriver.com] Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:43 AM To: NYCATTAR-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [NYCATTAR] Re: Advertising on Rootsweb Lists Sharon: I know exactly who you are: you are a former officer of the now-DISSOLVED (and it was NOT a "simple name change" as Mary Bryant continues to claim. I sure wish she'd quit beating that dead horse!) Enchanted Mountains Genealogy Society (EMGS), and now are involved with Painted Hills. Frankly, I have better things to do than play "monitor" to see who's posting what to the boards and lists (frankly, only a select few from PHGS need babysitting), but since you opened the door I am going to step through and have my say. And I couldn't agree with you more - there are a few things that need to be cleared up. 1. Who appointed you the "ad police" for the usgenweb boards & lists? 2. You write: "The societies that you are referring to, however, are non-profit organizations, whose fees are actually used for the society's maintenance. The persons involved in these societies receive no compensation from any fees or dues or whatever." I WAS referring to Painted Hills in my initial post, and it's my opinion that money IS one of the issues with that bunch. Enchanted Mountains was DISSOLVED by the founder after it was discovered that the continuing bad behavior of the president would likely get him sued. The president refused to step aside, so the Society was dissolved. Period. When EMGS was dissolved the bylaws were NOT followed in that assets (computers, supplies, books, &c) were not sold and the monies generated from said sale were not distributed to various historical and genealogical societies in the EMGS area. WHY DIDN'T THIS HAPPEN?! As far as I'm concerned, it was a clear case of Painted Hills looting the EMGS coffers. What's the point of! having bylaws if they aren't going to be followed? Do you really think Fortune 500 companies have bylaws in place just for show? If I were a member at the time EMGS was dissolved I would certainly have a lot of questions about how all of that was handled! 3. You further write: "Please advise me of any "commercial" individual researcher who would do the same." I can name one with no trouble! ME! I've been a college genealogy instructor and newspaper genealogy columnist. I write books, write grants, and assist societies with their newsletters. I also have been a professional researcher for years and I have assisted many people at no charge whatever. I am involved with genealogy because I enjoy the work, I have met many nice people, and I believe that preserving the history of this nation is important, and I've donated more hours in the past fifteen years than I'd ever be able to track. And I am not alone, many professional researchers volunteer many, many hours off the books. I think your comment implying that commercial individual researchers do not volunteer was not only unfair, it was totally out of line. You evidently do not know any professional researchers and an apology is in order. For some reason Painted Hills seems to think anybody doing anything within the counties of Allegany, Cattaraugus, McKean and Potter is competition. Why? It's okay for PHGS to post continuously to the boards & lists advising people to visit their site (and join the club), but it's a no-no if anybody else attempts to assist. Frankly, I agree with you to a point about there being a difference between professional researchers posting and non-profit societies posting, but I have yet to see any evidence that PHGS is non-profit, considering its past history. Just because there is a claim to be non-profit, and the Web address ending (.org) is reserved for non-profit groups, doesn't make PHGS non-profit! Do you really think people are that stupid? A few words of advice: First, PHGS dug their own hole. It wasn't some independent researcher, a county coordinator or anybody else involved with genealogy that resulted in the downfall of EMGS and the subsequent bad reputation that was carried over to PHGS. PHGS, because many of the same people are involved, will continue to have to prove that it has changed for the better, and to date I have not seen any evidence that it has. Clean house, and start at the top. Second, Painted Hills should discontinue the practice of nosing around other peoples' business and start working on cleaning up their own backyard. What little credibility that group had is hanging by a thread. Each time someone heavily involved with PHGS, such as yourself, opens their mouth they only shine the light on PHGS, and not in a postive manner. One would have to be wearing blinders to not see a problem, considering PHGS is persona non grata at so many usgenweb sites, historical societies and courthouses. If PHGS is so great why aren't they being welcomed with open arms? If PHGS is so fantastic why are the officers & "staff" banned from the lists? Third, PHGS is run just as EMGS was - a dictatorship. I belong to, and am active in, nearly two dozen historical and/or genealogical societies and NOT ONE fails to have open elections on a yearly basis. I suppose the lesson that could have been learned from the demise of EMGS was not heeded. I find it incredibly dismaying (and wrecklessly irresponsible) that in today's society so much power is given to one individual, and that individual has already been responsible for the demise & dissolution of one on-line genealogy society. Perhaps a key to gaining some credibility in the genealogy world would be to hold open elections and let the members vote for officers. And please don't insult me by stating that all of the members agree with the current roster of officers. Just because I chose not to be a member does not mean that I do not know what's going on behind the closed doors of PHGS. Having a president appoint her best pals & buddies to fill roles of officers just becau! se they follow her and do not rock the boat is, in the kindest sense of the word, "Napoleon-esque." I am sick and tired of this nonsense with PHGS. PHGS is like a wayward child that refuses to accept the blame, and is continually trying to shift the focus onto others. Well, it isn't working. Anybody wanting the TRUE story on EMGS/PHGS can email me at gobigred@theriver.com - I'll tell it exactly like it is. And it's not a pretty picture. Maureen M. Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon E. Barber" <ajbar@netsync.net> To: <gobigred@theriver.com> Cc: <PAMCKEAN-L@rootsweb.com>; <NYCATTAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 20 January, 2003 9:21 AM Subject: Re: Advertising on Rootsweb Lists > Mrs. Lee~ > Thank you for your reply to my query; however, I think a few things need > to be cleared-up. > > Professional researchers can and are classifed as being a "commercial" > service. They are in business to make money for their own profit. The > societies that you are referring to, however, are non-profit > organizations, whose fees are actually used for the society's > maintenance. The persons involved in these societies receive no > compensation from any fees or dues or whatever. > > Having been a past-officer of one such society, I can tell you from > first-hand knowledge that contrary to what you state, "...that these > societies will only assist those individuals paying dues", quite the > opposite is true. I personally have spent hours and hours researching > for NON-members who have contacted our particular society with questions > and I have done so without ever receiving any money or having the > society receive any money for my research from these NON-members! > > Please advise me of any "commercial" individual researcher who would do > the same. > > Rootsweb "Acceptable Use Policy" is written the way it is for a > reason.......there is a difference! > > Sincerely, > Sharon Barber > > ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by SURFSIDE INTERNET] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by SURFSIDE INTERNET]

Mrs. Lee~ Thank you for your reply to my query; however, I think a few things need to be cleared-up. Professional researchers can and are classifed as being a "commercial" service. They are in business to make money for their own profit. The societies that you are referring to, however, are non-profit organizations, whose fees are actually used for the society's maintenance. The persons involved in these societies receive no compensation from any fees or dues or whatever. Having been a past-officer of one such society, I can tell you from first-hand knowledge that contrary to what you state, "...that these societies will only assist those individuals paying dues", quite the opposite is true. I personally have spent hours and hours researching for NON-members who have contacted our particular society with questions and I have done so without ever receiving any money or having the society receive any money for my research from these NON-members! Please advise me of any "commercial" individual researcher who would do the same. Rootsweb "Acceptable Use Policy" is written the way it is for a reason.......there is a difference! Sincerely, Sharon Barber

Sharon: I know exactly who you are: you are a former officer of the now-DISSOLVED (and it was NOT a "simple name change" as Mary Bryant continues to claim. I sure wish she'd quit beating that dead horse!) Enchanted Mountains Genealogy Society (EMGS), and now are involved with Painted Hills. Frankly, I have better things to do than play "monitor" to see who's posting what to the boards and lists (frankly, only a select few from PHGS need babysitting), but since you opened the door I am going to step through and have my say. And I couldn't agree with you more - there are a few things that need to be cleared up. 1. Who appointed you the "ad police" for the usgenweb boards & lists? 2. You write: "The societies that you are referring to, however, are non-profit organizations, whose fees are actually used for the society's maintenance. The persons involved in these societies receive no compensation from any fees or dues or whatever." I WAS referring to Painted Hills in my initial post, and it's my opinion that money IS one of the issues with that bunch. Enchanted Mountains was DISSOLVED by the founder after it was discovered that the continuing bad behavior of the president would likely get him sued. The president refused to step aside, so the Society was dissolved. Period. When EMGS was dissolved the bylaws were NOT followed in that assets (computers, supplies, books, &c) were not sold and the monies generated from said sale were not distributed to various historical and genealogical societies in the EMGS area. WHY DIDN'T THIS HAPPEN?! As far as I'm concerned, it was a clear case of Painted Hills looting the EMGS coffers. What's the point of! having bylaws if they aren't going to be followed? Do you really think Fortune 500 companies have bylaws in place just for show? If I were a member at the time EMGS was dissolved I would certainly have a lot of questions about how all of that was handled! 3. You further write: "Please advise me of any "commercial" individual researcher who would do the same." I can name one with no trouble! ME! I've been a college genealogy instructor and newspaper genealogy columnist. I write books, write grants, and assist societies with their newsletters. I also have been a professional researcher for years and I have assisted many people at no charge whatever. I am involved with genealogy because I enjoy the work, I have met many nice people, and I believe that preserving the history of this nation is important, and I've donated more hours in the past fifteen years than I'd ever be able to track. And I am not alone, many professional researchers volunteer many, many hours off the books. I think your comment implying that commercial individual researchers do not volunteer was not only unfair, it was totally out of line. You evidently do not know any professional researchers and an apology is in order. For some reason Painted Hills seems to think anybody doing anything within the counties of Allegany, Cattaraugus, McKean and Potter is competition. Why? It's okay for PHGS to post continuously to the boards & lists advising people to visit their site (and join the club), but it's a no-no if anybody else attempts to assist. Frankly, I agree with you to a point about there being a difference between professional researchers posting and non-profit societies posting, but I have yet to see any evidence that PHGS is non-profit, considering its past history. Just because there is a claim to be non-profit, and the Web address ending (.org) is reserved for non-profit groups, doesn't make PHGS non-profit! Do you really think people are that stupid? A few words of advice: First, PHGS dug their own hole. It wasn't some independent researcher, a county coordinator or anybody else involved with genealogy that resulted in the downfall of EMGS and the subsequent bad reputation that was carried over to PHGS. PHGS, because many of the same people are involved, will continue to have to prove that it has changed for the better, and to date I have not seen any evidence that it has. Clean house, and start at the top. Second, Painted Hills should discontinue the practice of nosing around other peoples' business and start working on cleaning up their own backyard. What little credibility that group had is hanging by a thread. Each time someone heavily involved with PHGS, such as yourself, opens their mouth they only shine the light on PHGS, and not in a postive manner. One would have to be wearing blinders to not see a problem, considering PHGS is persona non grata at so many usgenweb sites, historical societies and courthouses. If PHGS is so great why aren't they being welcomed with open arms? If PHGS is so fantastic why are the officers & "staff" banned from the lists? Third, PHGS is run just as EMGS was - a dictatorship. I belong to, and am active in, nearly two dozen historical and/or genealogical societies and NOT ONE fails to have open elections on a yearly basis. I suppose the lesson that could have been learned from the demise of EMGS was not heeded. I find it incredibly dismaying (and wrecklessly irresponsible) that in today's society so much power is given to one individual, and that individual has already been responsible for the demise & dissolution of one on-line genealogy society. Perhaps a key to gaining some credibility in the genealogy world would be to hold open elections and let the members vote for officers. And please don't insult me by stating that all of the members agree with the current roster of officers. Just because I chose not to be a member does not mean that I do not know what's going on behind the closed doors of PHGS. Having a president appoint her best pals & buddies to fill roles of officers just becau! se they follow her and do not rock the boat is, in the kindest sense of the word, "Napoleon-esque." I am sick and tired of this nonsense with PHGS. PHGS is like a wayward child that refuses to accept the blame, and is continually trying to shift the focus onto others. Well, it isn't working. Anybody wanting the TRUE story on EMGS/PHGS can email me at gobigred@theriver.com - I'll tell it exactly like it is. And it's not a pretty picture. Maureen M. Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon E. Barber" <ajbar@netsync.net> To: <gobigred@theriver.com> Cc: <PAMCKEAN-L@rootsweb.com>; <NYCATTAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 20 January, 2003 9:21 AM Subject: Re: Advertising on Rootsweb Lists > Mrs. Lee~ > Thank you for your reply to my query; however, I think a few things need > to be cleared-up. > > Professional researchers can and are classifed as being a "commercial" > service. They are in business to make money for their own profit. The > societies that you are referring to, however, are non-profit > organizations, whose fees are actually used for the society's > maintenance. The persons involved in these societies receive no > compensation from any fees or dues or whatever. > > Having been a past-officer of one such society, I can tell you from > first-hand knowledge that contrary to what you state, "...that these > societies will only assist those individuals paying dues", quite the > opposite is true. I personally have spent hours and hours researching > for NON-members who have contacted our particular society with questions > and I have done so without ever receiving any money or having the > society receive any money for my research from these NON-members! > > Please advise me of any "commercial" individual researcher who would do > the same. > > Rootsweb "Acceptable Use Policy" is written the way it is for a > reason.......there is a difference! > > Sincerely, > Sharon Barber > >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: O'Hern Baish Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RRB.2ACE/992.1.2 Message Board Post: Charles, I have tryed to contact you and I get no answer please write jmoses@netsync.com

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RRB.2ACE/2200.2 Message Board Post: I HAD BEEN SEARCHING FOR ANY INFO ON GUY ALLEN FORD, THAT MARRIED ESTHER AMY HALL, DAUGHTER OF JENNIE HUNT, BAKER, HALL AND HOMER HALL. I HAVE CONTACTED A COUSIN OR SHE HAS RESPONDED TO MY E-MAIL AND SHE HAS ENLIGHTENED ME ON GUY FORD'S WHEREABOUTS AFTER HE LEFT OLEAN, NY. GUY A. FORD WAS THE SON OF CHARLES AND JULIA FORD, ALL OF WHICH WENT TO MICHIGAN. IN 1930, THEY WERE LIVING WITH CHARLE'S DAUGHTER, REVA FORD KIESTER. GUY WAS LIVING THERE TOO. CHARLES AND GUY ARE BOTH BURIED IN MICHIGAN. GUY DIVORCED ESTHER AND MARRIED A LADY NAMED VI AND HAD A SON RICHARD FORD. AND LAST KNOWN, HE WAS STILL WITH US. ALSO, AUDLEY MURPHY WAS MARRIED TO ESTHER IN 1930 AND LIVING IN OLEAN.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Baker, Ford, Hall, Hall, Hunt. Classification: Death Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RRB.2ACE/2200.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Certificate of Death for JENNIE HALL. Date of Birth: 15 Feb. 1859. OHIO Date of Death: 9 Feb. 1935 City of Olean, NY Father: Samuel Hunt b. Eng. Mother: Mary Carr b. Unknown

I've seen Ms. Stahley's posts, offering her services. Frankly, I see no problem with it. There are so-called Web-based genealogy socities that flagrantly post to the various usgenweb counties and the respective boards (i.e., come on over to our site, we have such & such data), but it is either forgotten, or conveniently overlooked, that these societies will only assist those individuals paying dues. What's the difference if it's an individual or a "society" offering the service? At least the individual is up front about the fact that she's charging a fee. I think it's highly disturbing that a "society" is allowed to post, but when an individual posts offering assistance he or she is criticized for it. Maureen M. Lee > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Classification: Query > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RRB.2ACE/6060 > > Message Board Post: > > For the past month or more, advertising from Susan Stahley has > repeatedly been flowing through the various NY/PA County lists offering > her services as a genealogy researcher for a fee...despite the fact that > Rootsweb "Acceptable Use Policy" states: "Content submitted for the > purpose of commercial use, advertising or fee for service is > prohibited." Although I and many others find this misuse offensive, a > better question is..."Why is it being allowed to happen?" > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RRB.2ACE/6060 Message Board Post: For the past month or more, advertising from Susan Stahley has repeatedly been flowing through the various NY/PA County lists offering her services as a genealogy researcher for a fee...despite the fact that Rootsweb "Acceptable Use Policy" states: "Content submitted for the purpose of commercial use, advertising or fee for service is prohibited." Although I and many others find this misuse offensive, a better question is..."Why is it being allowed to happen?"

I would like to make contact with family members of this couple: Mary Anderson marr. 1863 NYC. to George Devoe b. 1831 NY Had; Grace b. 1864 Bronx John 1869 Bronx Thank you, Duane -- Donna & Duane DeVoe Come Visit Lena, Illinois! http://www.villageoflena.com

Cindi, I can't help you with your Thomas Whipple, but I find it perhaps curious that he moved from Cattaraugus Co, NY to Barry County, MI. My John Worden was born NY 1807/08, probably in Chautauqua Co, NY; removed to Catt. Co by 1850. There is one John C. Worden that died (1872) in Orangeville, Barry County, MI that was born 1808 Chauqautuq Co, NY, that I suspect is my John Worden (but I cannot prove it at this time.) Coincidentally, my John Worden had a daughter, Alsophina, who married John Peck. Alsophina and John lived in Machias, Catt Co. After the Civil War, Alsophina and her husband John Peck, moved from Machias, Catt Co to Wayland, Allegan Co, MI, which is next door to Barry County. Brenda ----- Original Message ----- From: <cl2.clark@att.net> To: <NYCATTAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 10:43 PM Subject: [NYCATTAR] Re: Thomas Whipple, Cattaraugus Co. NY/ Mi > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Surnames: Whipple - Knowles > Classification: Query > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RRB.2ACE/1866.1 > > Message Board Post: > > Thomas Whipple, born in Cattaraugus Co. NY, died Barry Co. Mi is my 2nd great grandfather, his son Jasper Arnold was my great grandfather. Any information that you have on him and his family would be appreciated. > > Thanks, > Cindi Clark > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RRB.2ACE/1314.2.1 Message Board Post: i looked through my genealogy index & did not find him...will certainly contact you if i come across him...it would seem there should be some family connection re: surname & the geography...please let me know if you come across a connection....thanks...diana

Looking for a possible wife for Sanford Ackerman named Maria Davenport. Sanford was in the 1830 federal census near Perrysburg. They probably married abt 1825. Looking for information on Davenports in the county between 1825-1835. Or if you have a Maria Davenport in your database, I'd be happy to hear from you. Kathy Farrell Payson, AZ

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Franklin Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RRB.2ACE/6059 Message Board Post: Seeking information on James L. Franklin, b. 1844 (?), married Viana Bowen, had 3 children. Lived in East Otto

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RRB.2ACE/6058 Message Board Post: Seeking information on James L. Franklin, b. 1844 (?), married Viana Bowen, had 3 children. Lived in East Otto

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RRB.2ACE/1314.2 Message Board Post: Seeking information on James L. Franklin, b. about 1844, East Otto. Any connection with your "Franklin" line? James L. married Viana Bowen, they had 3 children

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RRB.2ACE/6057 Message Board Post: Am looking for info on Thomas Whipple b. 20 Oct 1827 Cattaraugus Co., NY d. Michigan m. Polly Knowles. Found in Persia, Cattaraugus Co., NY in 1850 US Census with Polly & dau. Rosa B age 2. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks Cindi Clark

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Whipple - Knowles Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RRB.2ACE/1866.1 Message Board Post: Thomas Whipple, born in Cattaraugus Co. NY, died Barry Co. Mi is my 2nd great grandfather, his son Jasper Arnold was my great grandfather. Any information that you have on him and his family would be appreciated. Thanks, Cindi Clark

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: RICH,SHULTIS(Sheltus,Shultes) Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RRB.2ACE/6056 Message Board Post: Found a Clark Rich, born 1823, married to Lucy M. Rich, born 1848 in Yorkshire, Cattaraugus County 1880 census. These are the parents of Jennie Rich, born 1871, who married Perry Shultis (Sheltus,Shultes). Am searching for more info on the Clark Rich family - parents of Clark or parents of Lucy M. Jennie Rich and Perry Shultis are my g-grandparents.

Hi, I am looking for anyone who may have access to Gowanda School yearbooks from 1929-41 and 1954-1966. I am looking to either purchase or find information from them. Marcy

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/RRB.2ACE/5435.1 Message Board Post: Helen is my mat GM. I have full poop on entire family and web site.