I'm sorry I was grouchy! Virginia From: Frances Brunner via <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2015 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs Virginia, I was not blaming the Church for anything, and I'm sorry if you took it like that. Sincerely,Frances Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:24:10 +0000 From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs Is it necessary to blame the Catholic church for everything, especially with no evidence?  The church was the champion of the people, both in Ireland and in New York.  Read a few of Archbishop Hughes' speeches in period newspapers, for example.  And letters from desperate parish priests in Irish newspapers during the Famine, for another.  Or their fiery sermons for land reform later in the 19c.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Irish came from a land where the government was their enemy and their oppressor.  The less they told the government, the better.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In fact, many people, not just the Irish, did not register their birth and marriage events.  Consuelo Vanderbilt, one of the richest women in America, lost her citizenship when she married the Duke of Marlborough.  After divorcing him years later, she tried to regain her citizenship but had problems because her NYC birth had not been recorded by her parents.  This is from her own autobiography, 'The Glitter and the Gold'.------------------------------------------------------Virginia         From: Frances Brunner via <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2015 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs   I have found some records that I can't identify for sure because of the lack of information in the record. I hope to pinpoint more once I get some certificates. I also know, from family lore and reading history, that what you say about the Church is true. We may dealing with a bunch of people who were subservient to the Church in a way that we can't understand today, and also, a bunch of people for whom the word "authority" of any kind meant trouble, not assistance.                             ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Virginia, Not grouchy! I just don't want to offend anyone! Frances Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 21:22:53 +0000 From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs I'm sorry I was grouchy! Virginia From: Frances Brunner via <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2015 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs Virginia,I was not blaming the Church for anything, and I'm sorry if you took it like that.Sincerely,Frances Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 20:24:10 +0000From: [email protected]: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth CertsIs it necessary to blame the Catholic church for everything, especially with no evidence? The church was the champion of the people, both in Ireland and in New York. Read a few of Archbishop Hughes' speeches in period newspapers, for example. And letters from desperate parish priests in Irish newspapers during the Famine, for another. Or their fiery sermons for land reform later in the 19c.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The Irish came from a land where the government was their enemy and their oppressor. The less they told the government, the better.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------In fact, many people, not just the Irish, did not register their birth and marriage events. Consuelo Vanderbilt, one of the richest women in America, lost her citizenship when she married the Duke of Marlborough. After divorcing him years later, she tried to regain her citizenship but had problems because her NYC birth had not been recorded by her parents. This is from her own autobiography, 'The Glitter and the Gold'.------------------------------------------------------Virginia From: Frances Brunner via <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2015 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs I have found some records that I can't identify for sure because of the lack of information in the record. I hope to pinpoint more once I get some certificates. I also know, from family lore and reading history, that what you say about the Church is true. We may dealing with a bunch of people who were subservient to the Church in a way that we can't understand today, and also, a bunch of people for whom the word "authority" of any kind meant trouble, not assistance. -------------------------------To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message