I realize this is not an NYC specific question, but I'm asking it here because someone else may have dealt with this or may need to know how others have dealt with this. I have a (distant) relative who was born a female but is currently living as a male with a new name. (He was arrested in 2009 and is listed as male. I now it is the same person as it is an usual last name and the relative's first name is now his middle name, and he was residing in the same area as his father and sister.) I'm going to keep his birth name as his name but use the new name as the AKA in FamilyTreeMaker. I'm thinking about just noting all of this (the name change, sex change) in the notes somewhere. I don't know specifics as to whether this person had sexual reassignment surgery. I'm assuming because the arrest record I found listed him as male with the new name, that that is his legal sex and name. This is the same branch of the family where the daughter thinks her mother was her sister. They are reeking havoc with my record keeping. ;-) Lisa
Wow! And I thought my family was complicated. I would record him with his birth name and gender and if possible in the same record with his new name and gender. Such as Jane/John Smith, F/M or Jane Smith, F aka John Smith, M. I assume this depends on whether the program you're using allows it. Let us know how you resolved this. Barbara Kiersh On Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:58 PM, Lisa Thompson <pupsnpaper@gmail.com> wrote: I realize this is not an NYC specific question, but I'm asking it here because someone else may have dealt with this or may need to know how others have dealt with this. I have a (distant) relative who was born a female but is currently living as a male with a new name. (He was arrested in 2009 and is listed as male. I now it is the same person as it is an usual last name and the relative's first name is now his middle name, and he was residing in the same area as his father and sister.) I'm going to keep his birth name as his name but use the new name as the AKA in FamilyTreeMaker. I'm thinking about just noting all of this (the name change, sex change) in the notes somewhere. I don't know specifics as to whether this person had sexual reassignment surgery. I'm assuming because the arrest record I found listed him as male with the new name, that that is his legal sex and name. This is the same branch of the family where the daughter thinks her mother was her sister. They are reeking havoc with my record keeping. ;-) Lisa
And just to add one more layer of complication to this... Gender might be a social construct, scientifically-- A DNA kit attached to this person in your tree would have only one sex marked, that of female. Regardless of name change or gender preference, DNA would still show two X chromosomes and no Y chromosome for someone born female. Kelli Bergheimer On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Barbara Kiersh <barkie@bellsouth.net> wrote: > Wow! And I thought my family was complicated. I would record him with > his birth name and gender and if possible in the same record with his new > name and gender. Such as Jane/John Smith, F/M or Jane Smith, F aka John > Smith, M. I assume this depends on whether the program you're using allows > it. Let us know how you resolved this. > Barbara Kiersh > > On Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:58 PM, Lisa Thompson <pupsnpaper@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I realize this is not an NYC specific question, but I'm asking it here > because someone else may have dealt with this or may need to know how > others have dealt with this. > > I have a (distant) relative who was born a female but is currently living > as a male with a new name. (He was arrested in 2009 and is listed as male. > I now it is the same person as it is an usual last name and the relative's > first name is now his middle name, and he was residing in the same area as > his father and sister.) > > I'm going to keep his birth name as his name but use the new name as the > AKA in FamilyTreeMaker. I'm thinking about just noting all of this (the > name change, sex change) in the notes somewhere. I don't know specifics as > to whether this person had sexual reassignment surgery. I'm assuming > because the arrest record I found listed him as male with the new name, > that that is his legal sex and name. > > This is the same branch of the family where the daughter thinks her mother > was her sister. They are reeking havoc with my record keeping. ;-) > > Lisa > > > > > > > -- Kelli Bergheimer Mess on the Desk 1944 Dina Ct Powell, OH 43065 614-571-1929 Kelli.messonthedesk@gmail.com National Speaker information and scheduling: kbergheimer@gmail.com Twitter: @messonthedesk Facebook: Mess on the Desk Blog: messonthedesk.com/wordpress YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvNrudGjNxizeNCG-1abajQ?guided_help_flow=3 Products and DNA services: http://messonthedesk.weebly.com My Genealogical Speakers Guild Profile and Schedule: http://www.genealogicalspeakersguild.org/ “We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” Albert Einstein
-----Original Message----- From: Kelli Bergheimer <kbergheimer@gmail.com> To: nyc-roots <nyc-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, May 10, 2018 12:13 pm Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] Re: gender question And just to add one more layer of complication to this... Gender might be a social construct, scientifically-- A DNA kit attached to this person in your tree would have only one sex marked, that of female. Regardless of name change or gender preference, DNA would still show two X chromosomes and no Y chromosome for someone born female. Kelli Bergheimer On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Barbara Kiersh <barkie@bellsouth.net> wrote: > Wow! And I thought my family was complicated. I would record him with > his birth name and gender and if possible in the same record with his new > name and gender. Such as Jane/John Smith, F/M or Jane Smith, F aka John > Smith, M. I assume this depends on whether the program you're using allows > it. Let us know how you resolved this. > Barbara Kiersh > > On Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:58 PM, Lisa Thompson <pupsnpaper@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I realize this is not an NYC specific question, but I'm asking it here > because someone else may have dealt with this or may need to know how > others have dealt with this. > > I have a (distant) relative who was born a female but is currently living > as a male with a new name. (He was arrested in 2009 and is listed as male. > I now it is the same person as it is an usual last name and the relative's > first name is now his middle name, and he was residing in the same area as > his father and sister.) > > I'm going to keep his birth name as his name but use the new name as the > AKA in FamilyTreeMaker. I'm thinking about just noting all of this (the > name change, sex change) in the notes somewhere. I don't know specifics as > to whether this person had sexual reassignment surgery. I'm assuming > because the arrest record I found listed him as male with the new name, > that that is his legal sex and name. > > This is the same branch of the family where the daughter thinks her mother > was her sister. They are reeking havoc with my record keeping. ;-) > > Lisa > > > > > > > -- Kelli Bergheimer Mess on the Desk 1944 Dina Ct Powell, OH 43065 614-571-1929 Kelli.messonthedesk@gmail.com National Speaker information and scheduling: kbergheimer@gmail.com Twitter: @messonthedesk Facebook: Mess on the Desk Blog: messonthedesk.com/wordpress YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvNrudGjNxizeNCG-1abajQ?guided_help_flow=3 Products and DNA services: http://messonthedesk.weebly.com My Genealogical Speakers Guild Profile and Schedule: http://www.genealogicalspeakersguild.org/ “We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” Albert Einstein _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebprefUnsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/postorius/lists/nyc-roots@rootsweb.com/Archives: https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/hyperkitty/list/nyc-roots@rootsweb.com/Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community
Lisa, I think if you put the name he is using now and (birth name) in brackets it will indicate the birth gender unless the name was not obviously feminine. In the sex column, put the gender that he now identifies with. Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> ________________________________ From: Barbara Kiersh <barkie@bellsouth.net> Sent: March 26, 2018 9:40:19 AM To: nyc-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] Re: gender question Wow! And I thought my family was complicated. I would record him with his birth name and gender and if possible in the same record with his new name and gender. Such as Jane/John Smith, F/M or Jane Smith, F aka John Smith, M. I assume this depends on whether the program you're using allows it. Let us know how you resolved this. Barbara Kiersh On Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:58 PM, Lisa Thompson <pupsnpaper@gmail.com> wrote: I realize this is not an NYC specific question, but I'm asking it here because someone else may have dealt with this or may need to know how others have dealt with this. I have a (distant) relative who was born a female but is currently living as a male with a new name. (He was arrested in 2009 and is listed as male. I now it is the same person as it is an usual last name and the relative's first name is now his middle name, and he was residing in the same area as his father and sister.) I'm going to keep his birth name as his name but use the new name as the AKA in FamilyTreeMaker. I'm thinking about just noting all of this (the name change, sex change) in the notes somewhere. I don't know specifics as to whether this person had sexual reassignment surgery. I'm assuming because the arrest record I found listed him as male with the new name, that that is his legal sex and name. This is the same branch of the family where the daughter thinks her mother was her sister. They are reeking havoc with my record keeping. ;-) Lisa
Transgender people identify with their chosen gender, not their birth gender. From: Lynne Kemp <dent_48@hotmail.com> Lisa, I think if you put the name he is using now and (birth name) in brackets it will indicate the birth gender unless the name was not obviously feminine. In the sex column, put the gender that he now identifies with.
...and, I think this topic requires sensitivity by family searchers . For example, if an ancestor committed suicide, you might refrain from posting that in any public tree. What you view as significant information can be distorted by "tree readers." -----Original Message----- From: metronycancestry--- via NYC-ROOTS <nyc-roots@rootsweb.com> Transgender people identify with their chosen gender, not their birth gender. From: Lynne Kemp <dent_48@hotmail.com> Lisa, I think if you put the name he is using now and (birth name) in brackets it will indicate the birth gender unless the name was not obviously feminine. In the sex column, put the gender that he now identifies with.
I agree that this is a very delicate issue. It's a problem for genealogists down the family tree. In some way, there should be, at least, a note of gender change. When searching for an individual, you might come across a couple that had two children, a boy and a girl. Just an example. Later the boy has disappeared and records show the couple having two girls. Where did the second girl come from and what happened to the boy? Barbara On Friday, March 30, 2018 7:39 AM, metronycancestry--- via NYC-ROOTS <nyc-roots@rootsweb.com> wrote: ...and, I think this topic requires sensitivity by family searchers . For example, if an ancestor committed suicide, you might refrain from posting that in any public tree. What you view as significant information can be distorted by "tree readers." -----Original Message----- From: metronycancestry--- via NYC-ROOTS <nyc-roots@rootsweb.com> Transgender people identify with their chosen gender, not their birth gender. From: Lynne Kemp <dent_48@hotmail.com> Lisa, I think if you put the name he is using now and (birth name) in brackets it will indicate the birth gender unless the name was not obviously feminine. In the sex column, put the gender that he now identifies with.
Yes, that is what I meant to say. Probably didn't word it clearly. Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> ________________________________ From: metronycancestry--- via NYC-ROOTS <nyc-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: March 29, 2018 5:14:46 PM To: nyc-roots@rootsweb.com Cc: metronycancestry@aol.com Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] Fwd: Re: gender question Transgender people identify with their chosen gender, not their birth gender. From: Lynne Kemp <dent_48@hotmail.com> Lisa, I think if you put the name he is using now and (birth name) in brackets it will indicate the birth gender unless the name was not obviously feminine. In the sex column, put the gender that he now identifies with.
HE, she or a transgender are identified in a tree to a relationship they are to you. A 1C1R is identified as that. to the name they are born with and anything that transpired aft5r that gets an applicable foot note. ********************************************************************************************************* Transgender people identify with their chosen gender, not their birth gender. -----Original Message----- From: Lynne Kemp <dent_48@hotmail.com> To: nyc-roots <nyc-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Fri, Mar 30, 2018 10:55 am Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] Re: Fwd: Re: gender question Yes, that is what I meant to say. Probably didn't word it clearly. Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> ________________________________ From: metronycancestry--- via NYC-ROOTS <nyc-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: March 29, 2018 5:14:46 PM To: nyc-roots@rootsweb.com Cc: metronycancestry@aol.com Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] Fwd: Re: gender question Transgender people identify with their chosen gender, not their birth gender. From: Lynne Kemp <dent_48@hotmail.com> Lisa, I think if you put the name he is using now and (birth name) in brackets it will indicate the birth gender unless the name was not obviously feminine. In the sex column, put the gender that he now identifies with.
I think a lot of genealogists in the future are going to have major issues with this topic.....I have a friend who transgendered from female to male and not only changed his first name but also changed his last name! I told him he is really going to screw up his family research in the future!! Denise Irwin Pets007@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Kiersh <barkie@bellsouth.net> To: nyc-roots <nyc-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Mar 26, 2018 10:46 am Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] Re: gender question Wow! And I thought my family was complicated. I would record him with his birth name and gender and if possible in the same record with his new name and gender. Such as Jane/John Smith, F/M or Jane Smith, F aka John Smith, M. I assume this depends on whether the program you're using allows it. Let us know how you resolved this. Barbara Kiersh On Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:58 PM, Lisa Thompson <pupsnpaper@gmail.com> wrote: I realize this is not an NYC specific question, but I'm asking it here because someone else may have dealt with this or may need to know how others have dealt with this. I have a (distant) relative who was born a female but is currently living as a male with a new name. (He was arrested in 2009 and is listed as male. I now it is the same person as it is an usual last name and the relative's first name is now his middle name, and he was residing in the same area as his father and sister.) I'm going to keep his birth name as his name but use the new name as the AKA in FamilyTreeMaker. I'm thinking about just noting all of this (the name change, sex change) in the notes somewhere. I don't know specifics as to whether this person had sexual reassignment surgery. I'm assuming because the arrest record I found listed him as male with the new name, that that is his legal sex and name. This is the same branch of the family where the daughter thinks her mother was her sister. They are reeking havoc with my record keeping. ;-) Lisa
This is certainly going to be a big genealogy problem. Both gender changing and sperm and egg donor babies. There's a wonderful children's book that I used to read to my boys when they were very little. A baby bird is lost and is looking for his mother. He asks all the animals, "Are you my mother"? Well, here we are. Barbara Kiersh On Monday, March 26, 2018 8:13 PM, Denise via NYC-ROOTS <nyc-roots@rootsweb.com> wrote: I think a lot of genealogists in the future are going to have major issues with this topic.....I have a friend who transgendered from female to male and not only changed his first name but also changed his last name! I told him he is really going to screw up his family research in the future!! Denise Irwin Pets007@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Kiersh <barkie@bellsouth.net> To: nyc-roots <nyc-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Mar 26, 2018 10:46 am Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] Re: gender question Wow! And I thought my family was complicated. I would record him with his birth name and gender and if possible in the same record with his new name and gender. Such as Jane/John Smith, F/M or Jane Smith, F aka John Smith, M. I assume this depends on whether the program you're using allows it. Let us know how you resolved this. Barbara Kiersh On Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:58 PM, Lisa Thompson <pupsnpaper@gmail.com> wrote: I realize this is not an NYC specific question, but I'm asking it here because someone else may have dealt with this or may need to know how others have dealt with this. I have a (distant) relative who was born a female but is currently living as a male with a new name. (He was arrested in 2009 and is listed as male. I now it is the same person as it is an usual last name and the relative's first name is now his middle name, and he was residing in the same area as his father and sister.) I'm going to keep his birth name as his name but use the new name as the AKA in FamilyTreeMaker. I'm thinking about just noting all of this (the name change, sex change) in the notes somewhere. I don't know specifics as to whether this person had sexual reassignment surgery. I'm assuming because the arrest record I found listed him as male with the new name, that that is his legal sex and name. This is the same branch of the family where the daughter thinks her mother was her sister. They are reeking havoc with my record keeping. ;-) Lisa
You are dealing with one person. Male, female, or transgender. Your placement in a tree is always the same with an annotation if applicable of a name change or what6ever. It does not mess up any research at all. eg: a 1C2R will always be a 1C2R ********************************************************************************************************************* think a lot of genealogists in the future are going to have major issues with this topic.....I have a friend who transgendered from female to male and not only changed his first name but also changed his last name! I told him he is really going to screw up his family research in the future!! Robert Pieterse rdpiet@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Kiersh <barkie@bellsouth.net> To: nyc-roots <nyc-roots@rootsweb.com> Cc: Denise <pets007@aol.com> Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2018 9:04 am Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] Re: gender question This is certainly going to be a big genealogy problem. Both gender changing and sperm and egg donor babies. There's a wonderful children's book that I used to read to my boys when they were very little. A baby bird is lost and is looking for his mother. He asks all the animals, "Are you my mother"? Well, here we are. Barbara Kiersh On Monday, March 26, 2018 8:13 PM, Denise via NYC-ROOTS <nyc-roots@rootsweb.com> wrote: I think a lot of genealogists in the future are going to have major issues with this topic.....I have a friend who transgendered from female to male and not only changed his first name but also changed his last name! I told him he is really going to screw up his family research in the future!! Denise Irwin Pets007@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Kiersh <barkie@bellsouth.net> To: nyc-roots <nyc-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Mar 26, 2018 10:46 am Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] Re: gender question Wow! And I thought my family was complicated. I would record him with his birth name and gender and if possible in the same record with his new name and gender. Such as Jane/John Smith, F/M or Jane Smith, F aka John Smith, M. I assume this depends on whether the program you're using allows it. Let us know how you resolved this. Barbara Kiersh On Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:58 PM, Lisa Thompson <pupsnpaper@gmail.com> wrote: I realize this is not an NYC specific question, but I'm asking it here because someone else may have dealt with this or may need to know how others have dealt with this. I have a (distant) relative who was born a female but is currently living as a male with a new name. (He was arrested in 2009 and is listed as male. I now it is the same person as it is an usual last name and the relative's first name is now his middle name, and he was residing in the same area as his father and sister.) I'm going to keep his birth name as his name but use the new name as the AKA in FamilyTreeMaker. I'm thinking about just noting all of this (the name change, sex change) in the notes somewhere. I don't know specifics as to whether this person had sexual reassignment surgery. I'm assuming because the arrest record I found listed him as male with the new name, that that is his legal sex and name. This is the same branch of the family where the daughter thinks her mother was her sister. They are reeking havoc with my record keeping. ;-) Lisa