Dear Joyce, That's fantastic! Thanks for sharing!You have relatives buried in the Trinity cemetery in uptown Manhattan? That's extraordinary! You really hit the jackpot with all that information. I have already made a phone call to Calvary cemetery in Woodside, and they told me what to do. I am going to make a trip to see my mom soon, and I will make copies of all those mass cards, cemetery deeds, etc., that she inherited from her aunt, who was a true hoarder. Talk about a silver lining to the cloud! Once I have as much information in hand as I can muster, I will send them a list of what I know, and I am expecting a pretty good haul of information. Our aunt was the one who knew everything about everyone, and probably never missed a wake! I can't wait to see what they find. FrancesDate: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 12:23:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] Try finding cemetery records see attached example From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Frances if you know where folks are buried, try to get complete records of the plots from the cemetery. It was the custom back then to buy big plots and put many of the family members, wive's, hubbies, kids etc in those same plots. By discovering where my 2 x GGF was buried, I got a record of everyone in the plot and discovered about 12 people who really tied things up for me...I found a LOT of info by finding the records of that one plot. SO if you cannot get birth records, look for cemetery records and that might help. I'll show you the example of what i found just by knowing where one person was buried. See page 2 here for ALL the people in my family I found JUST by knowing where Robert Fleury was buried---it is a poor copy but I cannot locate the better copy I have. Joyce On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Frances Brunner via <[email protected]> wrote: Dear Virginia, You are very welcome! I wanted to add this bit:So far, the first child I have been able to locate who was born in America was born in 1858/59-estimated due to the fact that he is listed on the 1860 Census. I cannot find a Municipal birth record listed for him, although for sure, he was baptized before he was a month old, according to a family tradition that is still adhered to. I am sure that this tradition arose from the high rate of infant mortality. The earliest Municipal birth record I can find is from 1862, that guy's brother. In addition, I have been able to find records for some of his siblings, but not all. Interesting to note is that I have found a birth record for a child who seems to have only lived for a day. Why that child, and not the others? This is the generation/era I refer to when I say that the record keeping gets sketchy. Either they were not required to file with the City, or the rules were not that strict. In addition, the fact that the parents were illiterate does not help the matter much. Perhaps someone in this forum knows the year when Municipal reporting became a requirement, but I would also assume it took awhile for everyone to adopt the practice, after the rule went into effect/became law. I have come to realize that, due to poverty and custom, a woman was not guaranteed a skilled attendant, such as a midwife, when she gave birth. Furthermore, if the parents were illiterate, and they had the help of some self-taught midwife from the neighborhood, that woman may well have been illiterate, too. How could the City enforce a law which required the reporting of a birth? The Lower East Side of Manhattan was the most densely populated area on the face of the Earth at that time. I have found records of my family in which eight or nine people, not all of them related, shared one or two rooms-I know the buildings and neighborhoods where they lived. There were some charitable organizations which catered to the poor, but even in the case of visiting nurses, who mig! ht have recorded births for illiterate families (I wonder if anyone knows anything about this?) they must have been overwhelmed by the number of people they had to serve on a regular basis, not to mention how busy they must have been during various annual epidemics of such diseases as cholera, typhoid, measles, etc. In my case, I am referring to Irish Catholic relatives, who came from the Gaeltacht, but who spoke some English when they got here. If you are dealing with people who were not English speakers, or not literate in English (maybe spoke functional English, maybe literate in their own language, but not English), this problem of literacy of the parents and/or the birth attendant may have made the ruling somewhat unenforceable, and may have made the record somewhat inaccurate (spelling of names, street address, etc.). I have one naturalization record from the 1860s, in which the man, who came over before 1850, signed the certificate with an X. While literacy classes may have been on offer at the time, I doubt a man who was supporting a family had any free time to attend them. Same for the mother of a crop of children who had to function in squalor, with little money. People who were from a different, more affluent class, probably have more, and more accurate, records. So it depends on who you are looking for, and what their background was. Once I have the original long forms, and have had a chance to research some baptismal certificates, I believe I may be able to pinpoint some more siblings in the Municipal records. Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 16:51:45 +0000 From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs Thank you for that very helpful info. I have my own birth cert from the hospital and it doesn't even have all that info. Very useful post. Thanks again.Virginia From: Frances Brunner via <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2015 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs Hi,My name is Frances, and I'm new to this list. I didn't know how to send an introductory message, so here it is, I guess!My family have been born in NYC since the first immigrants came ca. 1835. Most were born in Manhattan, but some in Brooklyn and the Bronx.I have birth certificates back till my grandmother's generation, which would date about 1900. I haven't gotten any yet that go further back.However, I would say that, when I hear "long form", I consider this to be the certificate that was filled up by the hospital and sent into the Department of Health. I don't have one in front of me, but I know that the ones I do have contain the names and ages of the parents, their address (because a copy of the filed certificate would be sent to them), father's occupation, place where the birth occurred, and the name and signature of the attendant. The most recent example I have is my daughter's, from 1984.In the case of my grandmother, her mother had chosen the name Margaret, but ! whoever filed up the certificate had written "Magdalena", There had been some kind of family dispute going on regarding the name. It took some time to discover this, because my great grandmother was illiterate. When they made the name correction, someone actually crossed out "Magdalena" on the original document, and wrote in "Margaret," and this is how the official amendment was recorded. So, in documents of this era, I imagine that if there were any amendments, you would see this on the long form, too. I hope to pay a visit to the Municipal Archives in the near future. I have identified some birth records that date back to the 1880s. I have a crop of relatives that were born in Manhattan in the 1860s, and can't find any birth records for them. I think I will be more likely to find baptismal records for those people. Their parish churches are still operating. But due to the fact that I have one generation in which some people have birth records and some don't, I can see t! hat registering of births was not strictly required or enforced until more modern times. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Researching Stephenson/Stevenson, Fleury, Heald, Lindelof, Young, Rubino, Cammarota, Mandracchia, Vaiarelli, Mulhern, Johnson, Haight, Erickson, Munson, Northrup, Sears, Camp, Gunn, Allen, Gorham, Plumb, Beard, Rogers, Eliot, Briscoe, Bradley, Mix, Wilmot, Pritchard, Mew, Stone, Sparke, Bayley, Bailey, Redfield, Redfin, Howland, Tilley, Sturgis, Hinckley, Kirk, Norton, Gerard, and many more...

Frances, I suggest that what you were seeing was the record of the death of the child, not really a birth certificate. Death records were important to show the deaths were not murders. Elizabeth Note I am answering Frances' email below, not asking the question. Please do not send any replies to me but just to the list. thanks On 4/20/2015 3:12 PM, [email protected] wrote: > The earliest Municipal birth record I can find is from 1862, that guy's brother. In addition, I have been able to find records for some of his siblings, but not all. Interesting to note is that I have found a birth record for a child who seems to have only lived for a day. Why that child, and not the others?

I don't know if anyone answered this. I was born in NYC, so was my son, my parents, etc, etc. I have both the long and short for me and for my son. I have seen a lot of birth records for NYC, including Long Island City. The long - used to be a negative print - white on black, but they may have changed. It has many details on it, (varies with time period, older ones have race, newer ones do not), but it details included information about the parents' - age, occupation (father), mother's maiden name, number of children born living, address, time of birth, doctor's name, hospital. That's the one you want. The short form looks like an award certificate and has very basic information. Can't find mine and my son needed his when he got married. I think it just has name, date, and maybe names of parents. Very little genealogical information. The first time I saw one I thought it was fake!! but that's what they're doing now if you just send for a birth cert and don't specify long form. These are the forms from the Department of Health and access is restricted. Only the individual and his/her parents can get the cert. Maybe you can get for your parents or grandparents but I think you have to prove relationship and that they are deceased. There is only one type of form at the Municipal Archives and those are probably the ones at LDS. They depend on the year. Very early ones were just in a ledger with little information. Then they started certs and they changed them as the years went by. You can only get certs up until 1909. The Municipal Archives will print a copy of whatever is on the microfilm. They do not print a positive, not negative version of the microfilm. NYC birth records were always easy to spot because of the black paper and white print. Hope that helps. Mary

Joyce, you are absolutely right! I think our messages crossed in the mail. I have found some records that I can't identify for sure because of the lack of information in the record. I hope to pinpoint more once I get some certificates. I also know, from family lore and reading history, that what you say about the Church is true. We may dealing with a bunch of people who were subservient to the Church in a way that we can't understand today, and also, a bunch of people for whom the word "authority" of any kind meant trouble, not assistance. The records from Castle Garden, in regards to my family, are useless. I have read that Bellevue Hospital maintains patient record books. I have one relative who died at Bellevue as a fairly young man. His occupation was listed as "driver", and I wonder if he didn't die of an accident, as the rest of the family died at home. I wonder if you have explored any of those records? The archive is at Columbia. I was going to go there, or write to them, but I want to get all my certificates back first. My mom has a suitcase full of old mass cards and cemetery deeds. I am hoping to get some information from Calvary cemetery, but they say that takes some time. The good thing is that this seems to have been the only Catholic cemetery of the era. Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 11:14:05 -0700 Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Frances, you will find that on records prior to early 1900's you don't usually get much info unfortunately. I have a couple from late 1800's (death records) and it does not even list the wife's name, only says that they were married. The earlier records on NYC can be a nightmare. Even after birth records were required by law, many did not get filed. This is probably due to a few reasons. People had babies at home, and may not have been aware of the requirement to file those. Your best bet is to look for Baptisms back then but even those are difficult to find. Many of the early churches no longer exist and because you are dealing with NYC even the churches that still exist rarely respond to requests for information. I have also read that the Catholic Church did not believe the govt had a right to this kind of info so often did not follow through with filing marriage records and such, and if you get before 1865 or so, the NYC marriage records are such a mess, than even if the records WERE filed, no one can find them as they are in no particular order. I have sent someone to NYC 2 x's to find a marriage record from abt 1862, and even going through ALL the records there, she could find nothing. NY in general, and NYC in particular can be one of the toughest areas to research properly, due to the lack of documentation. When you get back to early 1800's it is even worse as then even the Census' don't help you, having ONLY the male name, and minimal info on the family--only showing how many people were living in the same household and tehy approx age span (example between ages 10 & 16 etc--it varies on each Census--- IF you can break through that "hump" then sometimes things get easier with earlier records OR recorded histories on families in books that can sometimes be foudn on archive.org or google books. NY can be a challenge, that is for sure. Good luck with your research. Joyce On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Frances Brunner via <[email protected]> wrote: Hi, My name is Frances, and I'm new to this list. I didn't know how to send an introductory message, so here it is, I guess! My family have been born in NYC since the first immigrants came ca. 1835. Most were born in Manhattan, but some in Brooklyn and the Bronx.I have birth certificates back till my grandmother's generation, which would date about 1900. I haven't gotten any yet that go further back. However, I would say that, when I hear "long form", I consider this to be the certificate that was filled up by the hospital and sent into the Department of Health. I don't have one in front of me, but I know that the ones I do have contain the names and ages of the parents, their address (because a copy of the filed certificate would be sent to them), father's occupation, place where the birth occurred, and the name and signature of the attendant. The most recent example I have is my daughter's, from 1984. In the case of my grandmother, her mother had chosen the name Margaret, but whoever filed up the certificate had written "Magdalena", There had been some kind of family dispute going on regarding the name. It took some time to discover this, because my great grandmother was illiterate. When they made the name correction, someone actually crossed out "Magdalena" on the original document, and wrote in "Margaret," and this is how the official amendment was recorded. So, in documents of this era, I imagine that if there were any amendments, you would see this on the long form, too. I hope to pay a visit to the Municipal Archives in the near future. I have identified some birth records that date back to the 1880s. I have a crop of relatives that were born in Manhattan in the 1860s, and can't find any birth records for them. I think I will be more likely to find baptismal records for those people. Their parish churches are still operating. But due to the fact that I have one generation in which some people have birth records and some don't, I can see that registering of births was not strictly required or enforced until more modern times. > Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 08:58:26 -0400 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs > From: [email protected] > > I was hoping to get a better understanding of the "long" version of NY > birth certificates. Over the years I've obtained many copies of birth > certificates from FamilySearch.org. I was wondering, if these are the long > or short forms? Also, how to the two versions differ? I'm wondering if I > need to go back and order second copies of some of the certs I have. > > TIA > Debbie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Researching Stephenson/Stevenson, Fleury, Heald, Lindelof, Young, Rubino, Cammarota, Mandracchia, Vaiarelli, Mulhern, Johnson, Haight, Erickson, Munson, Northrup, Sears, Camp, Gunn, Allen, Gorham, Plumb, Beard, Rogers, Eliot, Briscoe, Bradley, Mix, Wilmot, Pritchard, Mew, Stone, Sparke, Bayley, Bailey, Redfield, Redfin, Howland, Tilley, Sturgis, Hinckley, Kirk, Norton, Gerard, and many more...

Dear Virginia, You are very welcome! I wanted to add this bit:So far, the first child I have been able to locate who was born in America was born in 1858/59-estimated due to the fact that he is listed on the 1860 Census. I cannot find a Municipal birth record listed for him, although for sure, he was baptized before he was a month old, according to a family tradition that is still adhered to. I am sure that this tradition arose from the high rate of infant mortality. The earliest Municipal birth record I can find is from 1862, that guy's brother. In addition, I have been able to find records for some of his siblings, but not all. Interesting to note is that I have found a birth record for a child who seems to have only lived for a day. Why that child, and not the others? This is the generation/era I refer to when I say that the record keeping gets sketchy. Either they were not required to file with the City, or the rules were not that strict. In addition, the fact that the parents were illiterate does not help the matter much. Perhaps someone in this forum knows the year when Municipal reporting became a requirement, but I would also assume it took awhile for everyone to adopt the practice, after the rule went into effect/became law. I have come to realize that, due to poverty and custom, a woman was not guaranteed a skilled attendant, such as a midwife, when she gave birth. Furthermore, if the parents were illiterate, and they had the help of some self-taught midwife from the neighborhood, that woman may well have been illiterate, too. How could the City enforce a law which required the reporting of a birth? The Lower East Side of Manhattan was the most densely populated area on the face of the Earth at that time. I have found records of my family in which eight or nine people, not all of them related, shared one or two rooms-I know the buildings and neighborhoods where they lived. There were some charitable organizations which catered to the poor, but even in the case of visiting nurses, who might have recorded births for illiterate families (I wonder if anyone knows anything about this?) they must have been overwhelmed by the number of people they had to serve on a regular basis, not to mention how busy they must have been during various annual epidemics of such diseases as cholera, typhoid, measles, etc. In my case, I am referring to Irish Catholic relatives, who came from the Gaeltacht, but who spoke some English when they got here. If you are dealing with people who were not English speakers, or not literate in English (maybe spoke functional English, maybe literate in their own language, but not English), this problem of literacy of the parents and/or the birth attendant may have made the ruling somewhat unenforceable, and may have made the record somewhat inaccurate (spelling of names, street address, etc.). I have one naturalization record from the 1860s, in which the man, who came over before 1850, signed the certificate with an X. While literacy classes may have been on offer at the time, I doubt a man who was supporting a family had any free time to attend them. Same for the mother of a crop of children who had to function in squalor, with little money. People who were from a different, more affluent class, probably have more, and more accurate, records. So it depends on who you are looking for, and what their background was. Once I have the original long forms, and have had a chance to research some baptismal certificates, I believe I may be able to pinpoint some more siblings in the Municipal records. Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 16:51:45 +0000 From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs Thank you for that very helpful info. I have my own birth cert from the hospital and it doesn't even have all that info. Very useful post. Thanks again.Virginia From: Frances Brunner via <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2015 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs Hi,My name is Frances, and I'm new to this list. I didn't know how to send an introductory message, so here it is, I guess!My family have been born in NYC since the first immigrants came ca. 1835. Most were born in Manhattan, but some in Brooklyn and the Bronx.I have birth certificates back till my grandmother's generation, which would date about 1900. I haven't gotten any yet that go further back.However, I would say that, when I hear "long form", I consider this to be the certificate that was filled up by the hospital and sent into the Department of Health. I don't have one in front of me, but I know that the ones I do have contain the names and ages of the parents, their address (because a copy of the filed certificate would be sent to them), father's occupation, place where the birth occurred, and the name and signature of the attendant. The most recent example I have is my daughter's, from 1984.In the case of my grandmother, her mother had chosen the name Margaret, but whoever filed up the certificate had written "Magdalena", There had been some kind of family dispute going on regarding the name. It took some time to discover this, because my great grandmother was illiterate. When they made the name correction, someone actually crossed out "Magdalena" on the original document, and wrote in "Margaret," and this is how the official amendment was recorded. So, in documents of this era, I imagine that if there were any amendments, you would see this on the long form, too. I hope to pay a visit to the Municipal Archives in the near future. I have identified some birth records that date back to the 1880s. I have a crop of relatives that were born in Manhattan in the 1860s, and can't find any birth records for them. I think I will be more likely to find baptismal records for those people. Their parish churches are still operating. But due to the fact that I have one generation in which some people have birth records and some don't, I can see that registering of births was not strictly required or enforced until more modern times.

It is amazing to follow the thread of posts about the fact that not all births were registered in NY City prior to 1900. Some parish priests did not file the required return of a marriage record to the civil authorities either. When I first started posting to this list the subject came up about every two or three years. Yes, it is true that some Catholics ignored the civil authorities in this matter. They thought it was a private event. In Ireland, Civil Registration was forced on them by the British authorities. It didn't feel good. Your best bet is the Church record. Good luck with that. I have one birth record for a child born in 1858 to my great grandparents, one out of 9 children born around that time. I believe the reason it was recorded is that a mid wife was in attendance. Sheila

Hi, My name is Frances, and I'm new to this list. I didn't know how to send an introductory message, so here it is, I guess! My family have been born in NYC since the first immigrants came ca. 1835. Most were born in Manhattan, but some in Brooklyn and the Bronx.I have birth certificates back till my grandmother's generation, which would date about 1900. I haven't gotten any yet that go further back. However, I would say that, when I hear "long form", I consider this to be the certificate that was filled up by the hospital and sent into the Department of Health. I don't have one in front of me, but I know that the ones I do have contain the names and ages of the parents, their address (because a copy of the filed certificate would be sent to them), father's occupation, place where the birth occurred, and the name and signature of the attendant. The most recent example I have is my daughter's, from 1984. In the case of my grandmother, her mother had chosen the name Margaret, but whoever filed up the certificate had written "Magdalena", There had been some kind of family dispute going on regarding the name. It took some time to discover this, because my great grandmother was illiterate. When they made the name correction, someone actually crossed out "Magdalena" on the original document, and wrote in "Margaret," and this is how the official amendment was recorded. So, in documents of this era, I imagine that if there were any amendments, you would see this on the long form, too. I hope to pay a visit to the Municipal Archives in the near future. I have identified some birth records that date back to the 1880s. I have a crop of relatives that were born in Manhattan in the 1860s, and can't find any birth records for them. I think I will be more likely to find baptismal records for those people. Their parish churches are still operating. But due to the fact that I have one generation in which some people have birth records and some don't, I can see that registering of births was not strictly required or enforced until more modern times. > Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2015 08:58:26 -0400 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs > From: [email protected] > > I was hoping to get a better understanding of the "long" version of NY > birth certificates. Over the years I've obtained many copies of birth > certificates from FamilySearch.org. I was wondering, if these are the long > or short forms? Also, how to the two versions differ? I'm wondering if I > need to go back and order second copies of some of the certs I have. > > TIA > Debbie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That sounds like nothing more than an extraction from an index, hardly a form or certifificate Keep in mind, the short form just gives the person's name, the borough born, the date of birth, and the date of registration. -----Original Message----- From: Barbara DeOliveira via <[email protected]> To: Debbie <[email protected]> Cc: NYC-ROOTS Rootsweb <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Apr 20, 2015 11:17 am Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs Hi Debbie, I do not know what year they switched from handwritten to typed records at the D.O.H. If you have a copy of a handwritten certificate, you probably have the full record. Keep in mind, the short form just gives the person's name, the borough born, the date of birth, and the date of registration. Bobbi On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 08:58 AM, Debbie via wrote: > I was hoping to get a better understanding of the "long" version of NY > birth certificates. Over the years I've obtained many copies of birth > certificates from FamilySearch.org. I was wondering, if these are the > long > or short forms? Also, how to the two versions differ? I'm wondering > if I > need to go back and order second copies of some of the certs I have. > > TIA > Debbie > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The "long form" includes more details and is more similar to "historical" BCs at the Archives. For example, street address, father's occupation, number of previous births. It is more genealogically useful. FYI Specify that you want a "copy of original certificate." Many municipalities in NYS are no longer providing that. -----Original Message----- From: Debbie via <[email protected]> To: NYC-ROOTS Rootsweb <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Apr 20, 2015 9:00 am Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs I was hoping to get a better understanding of the "long" version of NY birth certificates. Over the years I've obtained many copies of birth certificates from FamilySearch.org. I was wondering, if these are the long or short forms? Also, how to the two versions differ? I'm wondering if I need to go back and order second copies of some of the certs I have. TIA Debbie

lol On Apr 20, 2015, at 11:11 AM, Robert Pieterse via wrote: > Only the shadow knows what the LDS films are...

Hi Debbie, I do not know what year they switched from handwritten to typed records at the D.O.H.   If you have a copy of a handwritten certificate, you probably have the full record. Keep in mind, the short form just gives the person's name, the borough born, the date of birth, and the date of registration. Bobbi On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 08:58 AM, Debbie via wrote: > I was hoping to get a better understanding of the "long" version of NY > birth certificates. Over the years I've obtained many copies of birth > certificates from FamilySearch.org. I was wondering, if these are the > long > or short forms? Also, how to the two versions differ? I'm wondering > if I > need to go back and order second copies of some of the certs I have. > > TIA > Debbie > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

NYC does not even explain what the difference is between the long form and another form http://www1.nyc.gov/nyc-resources/service/1209/birth-certificate Only the shadow knows what the LDS films are... -----Original Message----- From: Debbie via <[email protected]> To: NYC-ROOTS Rootsweb <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Apr 20, 2015 9:01 am Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] NY Long Form Birth Certs I was hoping to get a better understanding of the "long" version of NY birth certificates. Over the years I've obtained many copies of birth certificates from FamilySearch.org. I was wondering, if these are the long or short forms? Also, how to the two versions differ? I'm wondering if I need to go back and order second copies of some of the certs I have. TIA Debbie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Only the shadows know about FHL records is the truth! I recently ordered 4 notations they had about a marriage in someone in my line only to find out that the records were notations about the marriage announcement in various newspapers --and of course I cannot find copies of those newspapers. One cannot assume when you see a familysearch.org record exactly what it is unless you order it. Joyce On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 8:11 AM, Robert Pieterse via <[email protected] > wrote: > > NYC does not even explain what the difference is between the > long form and another form > > http://www1.nyc.gov/nyc-resources/service/1209/birth-certificate > > > Only the shadow knows what the LDS films are... > > > > > > -- Researching Stephenson/Stevenson, Fleury, Heald, Lindelof, Young, Rubino, Cammarota, Mandracchia, Vaiarelli, Mulhern, Johnson, Haight, Erickson, Munson, Northrup, Sears, Camp, Gunn, Allen, Gorham, Plumb, Beard, Rogers, Eliot, Briscoe, Bradley, Mix, Wilmot, Pritchard, Mew, Stone, Sparke, Bayley, Bailey, Redfield, Redfin, Howland, Tilley, Sturgis, Hinckley, Kirk, Norton, Gerard, and many more...

I was hoping to get a better understanding of the "long" version of NY birth certificates. Over the years I've obtained many copies of birth certificates from FamilySearch.org. I was wondering, if these are the long or short forms? Also, how to the two versions differ? I'm wondering if I need to go back and order second copies of some of the certs I have. TIA Debbie

One of my brick walls, Ida Esterby.  She is the sister of my great grandfather.  I found her on the 1892 and 1900 census with her parents and siblings.  Parents are Hans and Maria Esterby (AKA Easterby) from Denmark. 1900 census says she was born July 1889.  I ordered the microfilm for NYC births for that year and can't find a birth cert.  Her mother died in December 1902 and in July 1903 I found a couple newspaper articles that say her father accused her of abusing her younger siblings while he was at work. Ida says it wasn't true and accused her father of abusing her.   While an investigation was ongoing she was placed in the Society of Prevention of Cruelty to Children.  I contacted them and they have no record of her.  Later I find her on the New Jersey 1905 census living as a boarder with a family of Reverand Joseph A. Owen, he is a methodist minister.  She was living at 360 2nd st Hackettstown, NJ.  I can't find anything on her after that.  Someone did a look up for me at the New Jersey archives, she searched the following records:  death certificates from 1905 through 1910 and looked in the Marriage Certificates (Bride Index) for 1904-1909, 1910-1914, 1915-1919, 1920-1929 and 1936, she didn't find anything.  I have no idea where to look next.  She could have gone back to NY or anywhere.  I do find her father and other siblings on the census's after 1900.  On the 1910 Hans is living in East Northport, Long Island (my hometown) with 2 of his sons.  I'm not sure of the outcome of the investigation but it doesn't appear that Hans lost his kids to the state.  He kept in touch with his other kids and I found a newspaper article for his granddaughters wedding that says he was a guest, that was in 1926.  I have talked to a couple of older relatives who say they remember hearing the name Ida but don't know anything about her or what happened to her.  I have an obit for one of her brothers and she is not mentioned in it as a survivor.  I think she either died or married and lost touch with her family.  I know the july 1889 birthdate on the 1900 census could be wrong.  Her parents and 3 siblings immigrated from Denmark on December 21, 1888.  The immigration record says her brother Bernhard was 6 months old at that time but he was really 8 months old.  The 1905 NJ census has the name Ida Esterby and the correct age but says she was born at sea and her parents were from Sweden.  I know she wasn't born at sea....maybe conceived, but not born. Im pretty sure the NJ Ida is the same as my Ida but maybe the person giving the census taker the info wasnt sure about where she or her parents were born.  Any advice on where to look from here would be great.  Also, if anyone is going to the NY archives and wants to do a look up for me, that would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance. Kim [email protected]  

Births after 1909 = at DOH, with "documented relationship." Request a "photocopy of original"* and state "long version." Older births are at the Archives; no proof needed. * Many metro municipalities are not providing photocopied originals.

Wont they except documentation from you to get your birth certificate ?? I only > have a > piece of paper that says my birth certificate is on file with them. -----Original Message----- From: Barbara DeOliveira via <[email protected]> To: Joyce Presnall <[email protected]>; NYC-Roots-L <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, Apr 16, 2015 9:48 pm Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] finding a will Joyce, You can get the full birth record. When you order it you have to ask for the full record, or the long form. If not, you get the short form with just the name, date of birth, date of registration, and certificate number, and signature of the registrar. Bobbi On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 05:02 PM, Joyce Presnall via wrote: > NY State is very strict about putting info of recent events > online--you may > have to prove a relationship to the person--NY strict about a LOT of > things. I cannot even get my birth certificate from them. I only > have a > piece of paper that says my birth certificate is on file with them. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Joyce,  You can get the full birth record.  When you order it you have to ask for the full record, or the long form.  If not, you get the short form with just the name, date of birth, date of registration, and certificate number, and signature of the registrar. Bobbi On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 05:02 PM, Joyce Presnall via wrote: > NY State is very strict about putting info of recent events > online--you may > have to prove a relationship to the person--NY strict about a LOT of > things. I cannot even get my birth certificate from them. I only > have a > piece of paper that says my birth certificate is on file with them.

Go to the familysearch page on Queens and you may find a link there that will help. I imagine you may have to send away to local resources for such a current will--probably a court. Figuring out WHICH court might be tough, and getting info on the phone from NYC folks not always easy either. Last time I called there for something I got the run around with 20 phone #'s til someone finally found the right one for me. Having worked for the State of WA I understand that as there are SO many state offices and we never had a phone listing for all the state agencies one would call. Eventually you'll run into someone with the answer. I'd start early in the morning and NEVER on a Monday or Friday :-) On Monday people are grouchy and on Friday they just want to go home. Also lost of folks work 4 10's these days so many people are off Mondays and Fridays. I try never to call anyone on a Monday as in any office those are particularly heavy work days and people are busy and grouchy...not a good combination LOL NY State is very strict about putting info of recent events online--you may have to prove a relationship to the person--NY strict about a LOT of things. I cannot even get my birth certificate from them. I only have a piece of paper that says my birth certificate is on file with them. ID theft a very big problem everywhere, but NYC probably tops the list. I hope that helps. Joyce On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Kim Hawkins Bonetti via < [email protected]> wrote: > I was reading the thread about finding a will and I have one Im looking > for. Where would it be digitized if it was online? I looked on > familysearch.org but didn't find one. I saw on the old fulton webpage > that she had one. Her name was Ingeborg Osterby and she died June 8, 1947 > in Queens, NY. Thanks. > > Kim > [email protected] > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Researching Stephenson/Stevenson, Fleury, Heald, Lindelof, Young, Rubino, Cammarota, Mandracchia, Vaiarelli, Mulhern, Johnson, Haight, Erickson, Munson, Northrup, Sears, Camp, Gunn, Allen, Gorham, Plumb, Beard, Rogers, Eliot, Briscoe, Bradley, Mix, Wilmot, Pritchard, Mew, Stone, Sparke, Bayley, Bailey, Redfield, Redfin, Howland, Tilley, Sturgis, Hinckley, Kirk, Norton, Gerard, and many more...

Joyce, You are wonderful to share all of this great info with tips I did not know.  I am going to make a Word doc just to save your tips and I am, I think, a very experienced researcher. If you have time before your trip, would you mind sending me your Word doc.  I was away for Easter when you posted it and I'm afraid it is lost in a sea of emails on the topic. Thank you very much.Virginia   From: Joyce Presnall via <[email protected]> To: [email protected]; [email protected]; "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 4:17 PM Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] How to find TONS of data at familysearch.org I hope this helps many folks out as familysearch,org is a fantastic resource that I have only recently begun to tap into. Finding WHERE the info is located can be difficult but I learned a trick on a video I watched about a year ago. GOOGLE for almost any topic you can imagine, if you google the term with the words familysearch.org AT THE END OF YOUR SEARCH TERM you will get many hits. Usually what you are looking for is in the first few hits. YOU MUST ALREADY BE SIGNED INTO THE FAMILYSEARCH SITE BEFORE THE LINKS YOU GET WILL WORK DO NOT USE QUOTES IN YOUR GOOGLE SEARCH If you are looking for info about Queens County as an example google the terms Queens County, New York, familysearch.org If you are looking for death records anywhere in New York State google Death records New York State familysearch.org (doing that brought me to ALL vitals--birth marriage and death) https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/New_York_Vital_Records Use it to google town names that you need more info on and need local resources. ALWAYS google the town, county and state you are looking for in the same way, making sure terms familysearch,org are at the end of your search terms OR you will get an error message. You are going to be amazed at the info you will find. Here are a few handy ones chart with probate links all over the state https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/New_York_Probate_Records Link for CHART of ALL Federal and NY State Census' tells you exactly where NY State Census' were done--not ALL counties have NY State Census--Westchester is one that was skipped for many years (or destroyed) https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/New_York_Census Here is a page with tips on browsing Fulton Postcards https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Old_Fulton_NY_Post_Cards HERE is a link for a list of ALL of their Collections BUT looking that through can be a bit tedious so always try to "zero in" on what you are searching for first. https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list Many of the county and state links also have addresses for people to write to for information such as clerks offices, courts etc. There is tons of info on that site, and I hope this trick will help you find what you are looking for. I am going out of town soon, so if you see someone looking for the WORD doc and I have sent it to you, please be kind enough to send it to them. Please feel free AS ALWAYS to share anything I post to other lists In fact I encourage you to PLEASE share this info with other lists.  The more we all know about where to find info the more successful we will be. We should ALL be helping one another with how to find information, especially when that info is free. There are many things you need in genealogy that DO cost $...you cannot get around some of those, so DO take advantage of free info. Have a great day Joyce -- Researching Stephenson/Stevenson, Fleury, Heald, Lindelof, Young, Rubino, Cammarota, Mandracchia, Vaiarelli, Mulhern, Johnson, Haight, Erickson, Munson, Northrup, Sears, Camp, Gunn, Allen, Gorham, Plumb, Beard, Rogers, Eliot, Briscoe, Bradley, Mix, Wilmot, Pritchard, Mew, Stone, Sparke, Bayley, Bailey, Redfield, Redfin, Howland, Tilley, Sturgis, Hinckley, Kirk, Norton, Gerard, and many more... ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message