Thanks for sending this. From the little I have read, however, it still seems to concern adoptees finding out about themselves, with a lot of concern for protecting privacy of the birth mother, etc. There is nothing about adoptees long dead whose mothers probably lived and died in the 19th century. Half my father's origins were closed to him as are a quarter of my siblings and mine. His mother was born about 1881 and taken into a family everyone believed was hers around 1884. Her mother was probably born around 1860 and had died by the time of Amy's move. The adoptive father legally adopted Amy in 1916 after the death of his wife because of probate problems. The 1916 record may not even give Amy's origins, but it is closed. Now, everyone concerned has been dead for 73 years or more. NY adoption records were closed in the 1930s or so, and no one ever seems concerned about making them open again although the closure must affect millions of descendants. Elizabeth On 7/29/2015 3:00 AM, [email protected] wrote: Message: 4 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 23:09:35 -0400 From:[email protected] Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] NYS Adoption and "UNSEALED INITIATIVE" To:[email protected],[email protected] Message-ID:<[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 It appears that a rewrite of the original proposal is not satisfactory to the initiative. http://www.unsealedinitiative.org/

The Social security death index contains dates of death. Maybe there is an obituary If you know were he is buried that is an option also -----Original Message----- From: Karen via <[email protected]> To: nyc-roots <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, Jul 28, 2015 11:22 pm Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] 1993 NYC death cert . . . Good evening! How would I obtain a copy of my brother's 1993 NYC death certificate if I do not know the EXACT date of his death? I just tried to order from VitalChek via Ancestry but got shot down because I don't know the day in April that he died. Thanks for your help. Regards, Karen Isley Seiferth Fort Myers, FL ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good evening! How would I obtain a copy of my brother's 1993 NYC death certificate if I do not know the EXACT date of his death? I just tried to order from VitalChek via Ancestry but got shot down because I don't know the day in April that he died. Thanks for your help. Regards, Karen Isley Seiferth Fort Myers, FL

It appears that a rewrite of the original proposal is not satisfactory to the initiative. http://www.unsealedinitiative.org/

Have you checked out "Fulton History.com?" -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Karen via Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 8:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] 1993 NYC death cert . . . Good evening! How would I obtain a copy of my brother's 1993 NYC death certificate if I do not know the EXACT date of his death? I just tried to order from VitalChek via Ancestry but got shot down because I don't know the day in April that he died. Thanks for your help. Regards, Karen Isley Seiferth Fort Myers, FL ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus Database: 4392/10325 - Release Date: 07/28/15

Thanks for that. My original question was where would he be buried? But I've always believed he died in New York as all I have managed to find on him was in NY city. Another list member Frances Brunner has also sent me this information and I have been able to find his marriage as well. Thank you to everyone for your help.....it is really appreciated. Looks like the search moves to Los Angeles........my husband and I were there in 1984 and 1988 and didn't know James had died there. Cheers, Kate Message: 1 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 09:21:55 -0400 (EDT) From: theclown16 <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NYC-ROOTS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 139 James Cunningham To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=no Name:James M CunninghamSocial Security #:092050614Gender:MaleBirth Date:16 Jul 1908Death Date:7 Oct 1972Death Place:Los Angeles theclown16 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 09:36:33 -0400 From: Robert Pieterse <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NYC-ROOTS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 139 James Cunningham To: [email protected], [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 What is you question, if any Name:James M CunninghamSocial Security #:092050614Gender:MaleBirth Date:16 Jul 1908Death Date:7 Oct 1972Death Place:Los Angeles theclown16 -----Original Message----- From: theclown16 via <[email protected]> To: nyc-roots <[email protected]> Cc: nyc-roots <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, Jul 26, 2015 9:24 am Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NYC-ROOTS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 139 James Cunningham Name:James M CunninghamSocial Security #:092050614Gender:MaleBirth Date:16 Jul 1908Death Date:7 Oct 1972Death Place:Los Angeles theclown16

Legislation is pending about changing access to adoptions. -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Knowlton via <[email protected]> And were sealed retroactively so that my adult grandmother, adopted in 1916, now dead for over 70 years, has closed forever records. It is not sealed for adoptee's life; it is sealed forever. Elizabeth

And were sealed retroactively so that my adult grandmother, adopted in 1916, now dead for over 70 years, has closed forever records. It is not sealed for adoptee's life; it is sealed forever. Elizabeth On 7/28/2015 3:00 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 23:48:04 -0400 > From:[email protected] > Subject: [NYC-ROOTS] NY STATE & ADOPTION > To:[email protected] > Message-ID:<[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > You want to talk about archaic laws? > New York State Adoptions are "sealed for life."

You want to talk about archaic laws? New York State Adoptions are "sealed for life." More archaic laws-for-a-laugh? https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/top-craziest-laws-still-on-the-books -----Original Message----- From: Robert Pieterse <[email protected]> They should re0evaluate their theory's. ...............They are protecting nothing My parents got divorced so getting some document with some lawyer dribble on it serves no purpose anyway. People get divorced for a myriad of reasons. So how is my privacy protected since I know they divorced..

They should re0evaluate their theory's. ...............They are protecting nothing My parents got divorced so getting some document with some lawyer dribble on it serves no purpose anyway. People get divorced for a myriad of reasons. So how is my privacy protected since I know they divorced.. -----Original Message----- From: metronycancestry via <[email protected]> To: nyc-roots <[email protected]> Cc: NYC-Roots-L <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Jul 27, 2015 4:51 pm Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NYC Divorce Records/Italian Citizenship Their theory is to protect the privacy of the divorce from the couple's children. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Pieterse 100 years to get a divorce record.......That is absurd. NY is living in the dark ages in regard to the release of records. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Their theory is to protect the privacy of the divorce from the couple's children. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Pieterse 100 years to get a divorce record.......That is absurd. NY is living in the dark ages in regard to the release of records.

NYS divorce reco9rds ar sealed for 100 years, to date. -----Original Message----- From: Kathleen Scarlett O'Hara Naylor via <[email protected]> To: Bobbi DeOliveira <[email protected]> Cc: NYC-Roots-L <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Jul 27, 2015 8:05 am Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NYC Divorce Records/Italian Citizenship Honestly, that's better than I'd hoped for. I was under the impression that they'd never be available. Thanks! On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 10:45 PM, Bobbi DeOliveira <[email protected]> wrote: > > > He is out of luck for the divorce records for another four years. See the > following for more information. > > > http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/1jd/supctmanh/county_clerk_records.shtml > > > > On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 09:15 PM, Kathleen Scarlett O'Hara Naylor via > wrote: > > I'm helping a family member apply for Italian dual citizenship by descent. >> He should be eligible, but I recently encountered a situation which makes >> me afraid that our application will not be successful. The applicant's >> grandfather (the immigrant in the line), through whom he should derive >> citizenship, was divorced in Brooklyn in 1919. This was prior to the >> marriage from which the applicant descends. The Italian consulate requires >> birth, marriage, death, and divorce records for everyone in the line of >> descent from the immigrant. >> >> 1. Am I correct in my understanding that since both parties to this >> divorce >> are long-since deceased, there is simply no way to access the divorce >> record? >> > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

100 years to get a divorce record.......That is absurd. NY is living in the dark ages in regard to the release of records. -----Original Message----- From: Bobbi DeOliveira via <[email protected]> To: kathleen.scarlett.ohara <[email protected]> Cc: NYC-Roots-L <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, Jul 26, 2015 10:49 pm Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NYC Divorce Records/Italian Citizenship He is out of luck for the divorce records for another four years. See the following for more information. http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/1jd/supctmanh/county_clerk_records.shtml On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 09:15 PM, Kathleen Scarlett O'Hara Naylor via wrote: > I'm helping a family member apply for Italian dual citizenship by > descent. > He should be eligible, but I recently encountered a situation which > makes > me afraid that our application will not be successful. The applicant's > grandfather (the immigrant in the line), through whom he should derive > citizenship, was divorced in Brooklyn in 1919. This was prior to the > marriage from which the applicant descends. The Italian consulate > requires > birth, marriage, death, and divorce records for everyone in the line > of > descent from the immigrant. > > 1. Am I correct in my understanding that since both parties to this > divorce > are long-since deceased, there is simply no way to access the divorce > record? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Honestly, that's better than I'd hoped for. I was under the impression that they'd never be available. Thanks! On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 10:45 PM, Bobbi DeOliveira <[email protected]> wrote: > > > He is out of luck for the divorce records for another four years. See the > following for more information. > > > http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/1jd/supctmanh/county_clerk_records.shtml > > > > On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 09:15 PM, Kathleen Scarlett O'Hara Naylor via > wrote: > > I'm helping a family member apply for Italian dual citizenship by descent. >> He should be eligible, but I recently encountered a situation which makes >> me afraid that our application will not be successful. The applicant's >> grandfather (the immigrant in the line), through whom he should derive >> citizenship, was divorced in Brooklyn in 1919. This was prior to the >> marriage from which the applicant descends. The Italian consulate requires >> birth, marriage, death, and divorce records for everyone in the line of >> descent from the immigrant. >> >> 1. Am I correct in my understanding that since both parties to this >> divorce >> are long-since deceased, there is simply no way to access the divorce >> record? >> > >

He is out of luck for the divorce records for another four years.  See the following for more information. http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/1jd/supctmanh/county_clerk_records.shtml On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 09:15 PM, Kathleen Scarlett O'Hara Naylor via wrote: > I'm helping a family member apply for Italian dual citizenship by > descent. > He should be eligible, but I recently encountered a situation which > makes > me afraid that our application will not be successful. The applicant's > grandfather (the immigrant in the line), through whom he should derive > citizenship, was divorced in Brooklyn in 1919. This was prior to the > marriage from which the applicant descends. The Italian consulate > requires > birth, marriage, death, and divorce records for everyone in the line > of > descent from the immigrant. > > 1. Am I correct in my understanding that since both parties to this > divorce > are long-since deceased, there is simply no way to access the divorce > record?

I'm helping a family member apply for Italian dual citizenship by descent. He should be eligible, but I recently encountered a situation which makes me afraid that our application will not be successful. The applicant's grandfather (the immigrant in the line), through whom he should derive citizenship, was divorced in Brooklyn in 1919. This was prior to the marriage from which the applicant descends. The Italian consulate requires birth, marriage, death, and divorce records for everyone in the line of descent from the immigrant. 1. Am I correct in my understanding that since both parties to this divorce are long-since deceased, there is simply no way to access the divorce record? 2. Has anyone applied for Italian dual citizenship in a case in which there was a divorce? Will the consulate require the paperwork even for a marriage from which the applicant did not descend? Thanks, Kathleen

That is quite a generalized statement and hardly specifies what records and for what time periods. *****************************************************************************************************************************.. NY, especially NYC, has become more defensive about records since 9/11. -----Original Message----- From: metronycancestry via <[email protected]otsweb.com> To: nyc-roots <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, Jul 26, 2015 6:36 pm Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] Barber List At Surrogate's, Wills must be ordered from warehouse then viewed on a return trip. NY, especially NYC, has become more defensive about records since 9/11. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Pieterse via <[email protected]> To: geniediane <[email protected]>; nyc-roots <[email protected]>; bobbidoll <[email protected]>; NYC-Roots-L Ob the flip side CA and other states have many more available records. Why is itthat NY can not do this ?? -----OriginalMessage-----From: Diane Jacobs <[email protected] Barber ListI don't thinkthis is entirely true.I have found complete wills in NYC(Manh.) going backto the late 1600s.They can be found at the Surrogate'sCourt Building, 4thFloor Wills &Probate, 31 Chambers Street, same address asthe MunicipalArchives.Diane Jacobs ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At Surrogate's, Wills must be ordered from warehouse then viewed on a return trip. NY, especially NYC, has become more defensive about records since 9/11. -----Original Message----- From: Robert Pieterse via <[email protected]> To: geniediane <[email protected]>; nyc-roots <[email protected]>; bobbidoll <[email protected]>; NYC-Roots-L Ob the flip side CA and other states have many more available records. Why is itthat NY can not do this ?? -----OriginalMessage-----From: Diane Jacobs <[email protected] Barber ListI don't thinkthis is entirely true.I have found complete wills in NYC(Manh.) going backto the late 1600s.They can be found at the Surrogate'sCourt Building, 4thFloor Wills &Probate, 31 Chambers Street, same address asthe MunicipalArchives.Diane Jacobs

What is you question, if any Name:James M CunninghamSocial Security #:092050614Gender:MaleBirth Date:16 Jul 1908Death Date:7 Oct 1972Death Place:Los Angeles theclown16 -----Original Message----- From: theclown16 via <[email protected]> To: nyc-roots <[email protected]> Cc: nyc-roots <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, Jul 26, 2015 9:24 am Subject: Re: [NYC-ROOTS] NYC-ROOTS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 139 James Cunningham Name:James M CunninghamSocial Security #:092050614Gender:MaleBirth Date:16 Jul 1908Death Date:7 Oct 1972Death Place:Los Angeles theclown16 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Name:James M CunninghamSocial Security #:092050614Gender:MaleBirth Date:16 Jul 1908Death Date:7 Oct 1972Death Place:Los Angeles theclown16