Dear Friends, Recently, there was online chat re: German immigrants intermarrying with Irish immigrants in NYC. Several sources I've read said this was a natural combination as both groups of Catholics were religiously devote. A couple of people emailed me about German immigrants. I'm more savvy about my German Catholic immigrants, than my non Catholic roots. So, I sure hope some of you will chime in here. Here are some basics about German immigrants. 1- There are still more German-Americans in the USA than any other group. 2- Germany & France were not countries during the peak of immigration to the USA. 3- Germans often immigrated due to wars or to avoid military service. [See: Napoleonic Wars, German to Russia] 4- The Lower East Side aka LES was the largest concentration of German speaking immigrants to NYC. It was known as "Kleindeutschland." This includes "alphabet city," e.g. Ave A, B, etc , and around Tompkins Square Park. [Google search] 5- On June 15, 1904, the General Slocum, a side-wheeling excursion boat, caught fire and sank, taking the lives of over 1,000 residents. It was the worst tragedy in NYC history until Muslim terrorists attacked the World Trade Center on 11 September 2001. The weekday, dayliner trip was sponsored by the German Evangelical Lutheran Church of St. Mark of 325 West 6th Street, NY, NY 10003. Today it is a synagogue. This event changed the new world for Catholic and non Catholic German immigrants. TIP> view names of victims, as well as names of those who identified victims. NYT hist. news: http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0615.html IMAGES of Slocum: http://www.general-slocum.com/webimages/ VICTIMS: http://boards.ancestry.com/topics.disasters.usa.genlslocum/22/mb.ashx 6- After the disaster, this German enclave dissipated. Many folks moved north around 91st St and 1st Avenue; called "Yorkville." Others moved near Lutheran Cemetery in Middle Village, Queens, where many victims were interred. 7- Knowing the religion of your German ancestors is helpful with NYC church records. If you now your ancestors' Germanic homeland, that may be a clue. For example, Bavaria was a region that was predominantly Catholic. Germans from certain areas clustered together in specific NYC Wards. [Google & Wikipedia search the wards by number.] 8- When searching NYC churches, search by ethnicity and religion. The records of closed churches always repose at another active parish. Note: St. Alphonus, once on West Broadway and Thompson, on this list> http://bklyn-genealogy-info.stevemorse.org/Worship/Manh.Catholic.zip.html is a good resource for German Catholic records. I like this list because it's organized by ZIP code. Do you have today's ZIP code for your old addresses? hmmmm That's what I thought. HEADS UP: Run every address in your family repertoire through Google search. Today, some folks are also including the GPS locations of family places, too. 9- Germans usually had a trade/occupation, unlike the Irish who often appear in census records for decades as "lab." = laborer. BTW at one time there were 8,000 German cigar makers. 10- The absolutely best book I've found that that compares early Irish Catholics to German Catholics in NYC is> "The Immigrant Church: New York's Irish and German Catholics, 1815-1865" by Jay P. Dolan I hope this opens a few eyes and I hope others will address non-Catholic Germans in NYC, especially those from Prussia. Barb

Minor quivel here, France has been a country and kingdom since the Ancien Regime formed a centralized monarchial government in the 15th century. While there were succession problems and lots of internal resistance to a centralized form of taxation the French kings still ruled one country and were able to continually grab more land from the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation precisely because it was scattered about in individual principalities. The push was always to get to the Rhine and join all that land with the French Kingdom. Louis XIV invaded and annexed Lorraine and Alcase to become French with a Germanic population and caused troubles almost to the current day. On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:04 AM, mizscarlettny via <nybrooklyn@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > Recently, there was online chat re: German immigrants intermarrying with Irish immigrants in NYC. Several sources I've read said this was a natural combination as both groups of Catholics were religiously devote. > > A couple of people emailed me about German immigrants. I'm more savvy about my German Catholic immigrants, than my non Catholic roots. So, I sure hope some of you will chime in here. > > Here are some basics about German immigrants. > > 1- There are still more German-Americans in the USA than any other group. > > 2- Germany & France were not countries during the peak of immigration to the USA. > > 3- Germans often immigrated due to wars or to avoid military service. [See: Napoleonic Wars, German to Russia] > > 4- The Lower East Side aka LES was the largest concentration of German speaking immigrants to NYC. It was known as "Kleindeutschland." This includes "alphabet city," e.g. Ave A, B, etc , and around Tompkins Square Park. [Google search] > > 5- On June 15, 1904, the General Slocum, a side-wheeling excursion boat, caught fire and sank, taking the lives of over 1,000 residents. It was the worst tragedy in NYC history until Muslim terrorists attacked the World Trade Center on 11 September 2001. The weekday, dayliner trip was sponsored by the German Evangelical Lutheran > Church of St. Mark of 325 West 6th Street, NY, NY 10003. Today it is a synagogue. This event changed the new world for Catholic and non Catholic German immigrants. TIP> view names of victims, as well as names of those who identified victims. > > NYT hist. news: http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0615.html > IMAGES of Slocum: http://www.general-slocum.com/webimages/ > VICTIMS: http://boards.ancestry.com/topics.disasters.usa.genlslocum/22/mb.ashx > > 6- After the disaster, this German enclave dissipated. Many folks moved north around 91st St and 1st Avenue; called "Yorkville." Others moved near Lutheran Cemetery in Middle Village, Queens, where many victims were interred. > > 7- Knowing the religion of your German ancestors is helpful with NYC church records. If you now your ancestors' Germanic homeland, that may be a clue. For example, Bavaria was a region that was predominantly Catholic. > Germans from certain areas clustered together in specific NYC Wards. [Google & Wikipedia search the wards by number.] > > 8- When searching NYC churches, search by ethnicity and religion. The records of closed churches always repose at another active parish. Note: St. Alphonus, once on West Broadway and Thompson, on this list> > http://bklyn-genealogy-info.stevemorse.org/Worship/Manh.Catholic.zip.html > is a good resource for German Catholic records. > > I like this list because it's organized by ZIP code. Do you have today's ZIP code for your old addresses? hmmmm > That's what I thought. HEADS UP: Run every address in your family repertoire through Google search. Today, > some folks are also including the GPS locations of family places, too. > > 9- Germans usually had a trade/occupation, unlike the Irish who often appear in census records for decades as "lab." = laborer. BTW at one time there were 8,000 German cigar makers. > > 10- The absolutely best book I've found that that compares early Irish Catholics to German Catholics in NYC is> > "The Immigrant Church: New York's Irish and German Catholics, 1815-1865" by Jay P. Dolan > > I hope this opens a few eyes and I hope others will address non-Catholic Germans in NYC, especially > those from Prussia. > > Barb > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYBROOKLYN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Fred Rump, 730 5th St. NW Naples, FL 34120 fredrump@gmail.com 239-775-7838 http://www.rumpfamily1.phanfare.com http://fredrump.blogspot.com http://www.facebook.com/fred.rump

I was expecting this. Clarification...the borders of France and German "as we know them today," AND as Ancestry incorrectly labels them in the 19th century. I was not speaking of monarchies, princips, duchies, etc etc etc Anyone is welcome to contribute general information, tips, etc to these lists, Fred, that may help readers with their specific research. As I've said a million times, it's much easier to edit someone else's writing than to compose it. Mea culpa Barb -----Original Message----- From: W. Fred Rump <fredrump@gmail.com> To: mizscarlettny <mizscarlettny@aol.com> Cc: NY-IRISH <NY-IRISH@rootsweb.com>; NYNEWYOR <NYNEWYOR@rootsweb.com>; NYBrooklyn <NYBrooklyn@rootsweb.com>; NYNASSAU <NYNASSAU@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Oct 20, 2014 12:52 pm Subject: Re: [BKLYN] GERMAN immigrants Minor quivel here, France has been a country and kingdom since the Ancien Regime formed a centralized monarchial government in the 15th century. While there were succession problems and lots of internal resistance to a centralized form of taxation the French kings still ruled one country and were able to continually grab more land from the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation precisely because it was scattered about in individual principalities. The push was always to get to the Rhine and join all that land with the French Kingdom. Louis XIV invaded and annexed Lorraine and Alcase to become French with a Germanic population and caused troubles almost to the current day. On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:04 AM, mizscarlettny via <nybrooklyn@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > Recently, there was online chat re: German immigrants intermarrying with Irish immigrants in NYC. Several sources I've read said this was a natural combination as both groups of Catholics were religiously devote. > > A couple of people emailed me about German immigrants. I'm more savvy about my German Catholic immigrants, than my non Catholic roots. So, I sure hope some of you will chime in here. > > Here are some basics about German immigrants. > > 1- There are still more German-Americans in the USA than any other group. > > 2- Germany & France were not countries during the peak of immigration to the USA. > > 3- Germans often immigrated due to wars or to avoid military service. [See: Napoleonic Wars, German to Russia] > > 4- The Lower East Side aka LES was the largest concentration of German speaking immigrants to NYC. It was known as "Kleindeutschland." This includes "alphabet city," e.g. Ave A, B, etc , and around Tompkins Square Park. [Google search] > > 5- On June 15, 1904, the General Slocum, a side-wheeling excursion boat, caught fire and sank, taking the lives of over 1,000 residents. It was the worst tragedy in NYC history until Muslim terrorists attacked the World Trade Center on 11 September 2001. The weekday, dayliner trip was sponsored by the German Evangelical Lutheran > Church of St. Mark of 325 West 6th Street, NY, NY 10003. Today it is a synagogue. This event changed the new world for Catholic and non Catholic German immigrants. TIP> view names of victims, as well as names of those who identified victims. > > NYT hist. news: http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0615.html > IMAGES of Slocum: http://www.general-slocum.com/webimages/ > VICTIMS: http://boards.ancestry.com/topics.disasters.usa.genlslocum/22/mb.ashx > > 6- After the disaster, this German enclave dissipated. Many folks moved north around 91st St and 1st Avenue; called "Yorkville." Others moved near Lutheran Cemetery in Middle Village, Queens, where many victims were interred. > > 7- Knowing the religion of your German ancestors is helpful with NYC church records. If you now your ancestors' Germanic homeland, that may be a clue. For example, Bavaria was a region that was predominantly Catholic. > Germans from certain areas clustered together in specific NYC Wards. [Google & Wikipedia search the wards by number.] > > 8- When searching NYC churches, search by ethnicity and religion. The records of closed churches always repose at another active parish. Note: St. Alphonus, once on West Broadway and Thompson, on this list> > http://bklyn-genealogy-info.stevemorse.org/Worship/Manh.Catholic.zip.html > is a good resource for German Catholic records. > > I like this list because it's organized by ZIP code. Do you have today's ZIP code for your old addresses? hmmmm > That's what I thought. HEADS UP: Run every address in your family repertoire through Google search. Today, > some folks are also including the GPS locations of family places, too. > > 9- Germans usually had a trade/occupation, unlike the Irish who often appear in census records for decades as "lab." = laborer. BTW at one time there were 8,000 German cigar makers. > > 10- The absolutely best book I've found that that compares early Irish Catholics to German Catholics in NYC is> > "The Immigrant Church: New York's Irish and German Catholics, 1815-1865" by Jay P. Dolan > > I hope this opens a few eyes and I hope others will address non-Catholic Germans in NYC, especially > those from Prussia. > > Barb > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NYBROOKLYN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Fred Rump, 730 5th St. NW Naples, FL 34120 fredrump@gmail.com 239-775-7838 http://www.rumpfamily1.phanfare.com http://fredrump.blogspot.com http://www.facebook.com/fred.rump