Hi Bill, Which century are you talking about? My main research of 15 years is on the KIDDER name, and I have the very good "KIDDER book" (CD version). While browsing through it over the years, I have seen many families where the mother's surname (before marriage) was given as the middle name of her children. This was moreso for her sons, but it did occur with the daughters. I noticed it mostly in the 1700's and 1800's. There were several other cases where the mother's maiden name (surname) was used as the given name for one of her sons, probably first son. In fact it was the grandmother's maiden name (surname) which was given to the first son as his given name: Joseph KIDDER and Rebecca CHAMBERLAIN lived in New Ipswich, NH (came up from Chelmsford and Westford, MA). Their first child was a son, and he was named, Wilder KIDDER (b~1760). It was Rebecca's mother's maiden name (surname), WILDER, that was given to her grandson. * Coming down a few generations, and then up in northern Maine, a descendant, Joseph KIDDER and his wife, Clarissa WILKINS, also had many children. I believe several of them were named after a sibling in Clarissa's large family who had passed. For instance, their first son, who became my great-grandfather, was named, George Sanford KIDDER. George was her father's name and Sanford was the name of one of her brothers - who I cannot locate in records. "Sanford" KIDDER married for a 2nd time to a Louise Wellington RICE. She was from Winchester, MA, but her father, Charles Wellington RICE, was the youngest of 10 children born in Lubec, Maine. Many people have suggested that Louise was given that middle name because of a relative with the WELLINGTON surname in Winchester, MA. But, a little investigating showed that her father was probably given that middle name - because of the "Duke of Wellington." (Famous Statesman in Great Britain who was in his last years.) http://www.massmoments.org:80/moment.cfm?mid=293 "Sanford" and Louise (m.1898) had a daughter and then 2 sons, the first, Sanford, Jr., the 2nd, Clinton Wellington KIDDER. Sanford had a brother, Clinton, and we don't know where that given name came from. Just an FYI for you. Betty (near Lowell, MA) (on Lists for 7 years; now an administrator for 7 Lists) * Wilder KIDDER became a "famous and animated Fifer" in the Rev. War, and he fought in many battles in many states, including Valley Forge in PA, and he married a woman from NJ. Wilder's brother, Calvin, left NH and moved to New Brunswick; his only child, "Calvin," started the branch of the family near Calais, Maine. Their younger brother, Joseph, fought in the War as a 14-yr.-old; I can't find him after the War. Calvin was not a Loyalist; he traveled with other families and might have been following his girlfriend. (FYI for Brooklyn researchers, I'm still looking for descendants of Mrs. Louise (RICE) KIDDER's uncle, John HUTCHINSON, in Brooklyn. He and his 2 married sisters moved from Winchester to Brooklyn in the 1850's and remained there.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" <billmellsworth@comcast.net> To: <nykings@rootsweb.com>; "ME-Irish" <ME-Irish@rootsweb.com>; <nyc-roots@rootsweb.com>; <nybrooklyn@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 3:44 AM Subject: [ME-IRISH] naming traditions I've seen the subject of given names addressed a number times. I wonder if anyone is familiar with tradition of using surnames as a middle name among the Irish, Scots and English. Bill