Thank you both for your insights. Both responses were very helpful. In a later census he was listed as a 'porter', so I guess he was pulling or carrying something. M -----Original Message----- From: nybrooklyn-request <[email protected]> To: nybrooklyn <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, Jul 8, 2012 3:30 am Subject: NYBROOKLYN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 127 Today's Topics: 1. Re: Occupation of CARMAN in 1870 ??? (Marshall Lake) 2. Re: Occupation of CARMAN in 1870 ??? ([email protected]) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 ate: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 06:02:47 -0700 (MST) rom: Marshall Lake <[email protected]> ubject: Re: [BKLYN] Occupation of CARMAN in 1870 ??? o: [email protected] essage-ID: <[email protected]> ontent-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Does anyone know what the occupation of 'carman' meant in 1870??? I always assumed ( probably mistakenly) that it had something to do with trolley cars, either a conductor or ticket taker, but now I'm thinking it might be someone who pulled a horse-driven cart, as in moving materials or 'peddling' foodstuffs. Any educated thoughts out there? A google search got many hits. One is: ttp://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~carman/occupation.htm -- arshall Lake -- [email protected] -- http://www.mlake.net ----------------------------- Message: 2 ate: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 13:28:53 -0400 (EDT) rom: [email protected] ubject: Re: [BKLYN] Occupation of CARMAN in 1870 ??? o: [email protected] essage-ID: <[email protected]> ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi Marshall, Any way you view it in 1870, it sounds as though you are on the right rack. LOL They also had horse drawn omnibuses at that time. You may want to isit your local library and view some photographic books of your location of nterest. Barb etro NYC Researcher [email protected] writes: > Does anyone know what the occupation of 'carman' meant in 1870??? I > always assumed ( probably mistakenly) that it had something to do with > trolley cars, either a conductor or ticket taker, but now I'm thinking > it might be someone who pulled a horse-driven cart, as in moving > materials or 'peddling' foodstuffs. Any educated thoughts out there? A google search got many hits. One is: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~carman/occupation.htm -- Marshall Lake -- [email protected] -- http://www.mlake.net ----------------------------- To contact the NYBROOKLYN list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the NYBROOKLYN mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] ith the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of he mail with no additional text. nd of NYBROOKLYN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 127 *****************************************

Hi Marshall, Any way you view it in 1870, it sounds as though you are on the right track. LOL They also had horse drawn omnibuses at that time. You may want to visit your local library and view some photographic books of your location of interest. Barb Metro NYC Researcher [email protected] writes: > > Does anyone know what the occupation of 'carman' meant in 1870??? I > > always assumed ( probably mistakenly) that it had something to do with > > trolley cars, either a conductor or ticket taker, but now I'm thinking > > it might be someone who pulled a horse-driven cart, as in moving > > materials or 'peddling' foodstuffs. Any educated thoughts out there? > > A google search got many hits. One is: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~carman/occupation.htm > > -- > Marshall Lake -- [email protected] -- http://www.mlake.net >

> Does anyone know what the occupation of 'carman' meant in 1870??? I > always assumed ( probably mistakenly) that it had something to do with > trolley cars, either a conductor or ticket taker, but now I'm thinking > it might be someone who pulled a horse-driven cart, as in moving > materials or 'peddling' foodstuffs. Any educated thoughts out there? A google search got many hits. One is: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~carman/occupation.htm -- Marshall Lake -- [email protected] -- http://www.mlake.net

Does anyone know what the occupation of 'carman' meant in 1870??? I always assumed ( probably mistakenly) that it had something to do with trolley cars, either a conductor or ticket taker, but now I'm thinking it might be someone who pulled a horse-driven cart, as in moving materials or 'peddling' foodstuffs. Any educated thoughts out there?

BINGO, Gail! Each died the same day in 1826, thinking the other was alive. Barb ========== [email protected] writes: > Adams and Jefferson. Each thinking the other still survived > ~ Gail ~ > ============================= > On Jul 4, 2012, [email protected]> wrote: > > > Happy 4th of July to all. > > Two famous U.S. Presidents died on July 4th, but not in 1776. > > Any guesses? >

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Adams and Jefferson. Each thinking the other still survived Sent from my AT&T iPhone. ~ Gail ~ On Jul 4, 2012, at 13:54, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > Happy 4th of July to all. > Two famous U.S. Presidents died on July 4th, but not in 1776. > Any guesses? > > Many of us recall singing at least the first verse of "America" as school > children, especially before assemblies. Do you remember the lyrics? > >> >> "AMERICA" (My Country, 'Tis of Thee) >> >> 1. My country,' tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing; land >> where my fathers died, land of the pilgrims' pride, from every mountainside >> let freedom ring! > > 2.My native country, thee, land of the noble free, thy name I love; I love > >> thy rocks and rills, thy woods and templed hills; my heart with rapture >> thrills, like that above. > > 3.Let music swell the breeze, and ring from all the trees sweet freedom's > >> song; let mortal tongues awake; let all that breathe partake; let rocks >> their silence break, the sound prolong. > > 4. Our fathers' God, to thee, author of liberty, to thee we sing; long may > >> our land be bright with freedom's holy light; protect us by thy might, >> great God, our King. >> [Source: http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh697.txt] > > And in those days, each classroom displayed an American flag. Upon > prompting over the P.A. by a principal, or by the classroom teacher, each student > stood, > right hand over heart and recited the "Pledge of Allegiance." > > "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, > and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, > With Liberty and Justice for all." > > Historically, the word "God" was added to the original Pledge, and is > printed on > money of the United States of America. The use of the word God has been > challenged in both instances, under the guise of separation of church and > state. > > When teaching high school, many of my non-native born students refused to > participate claiming this is not their country. Yet, NYS required its > teachers to lead the Pledge, and often observed how teachers performed the task. My > response to > immigrant students was requiring all to stand in honor of the U.S. flag, as > a symbol of this country and all it afforded them and their families. > Recitation could not be forced, but at least I provided them with a reason they > must stand, just as I would do in their country of birth. R-e-s-p-e-c-t! > > Here's some historical links you may find interesting: > > http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm > http://www.homeofheroes.com/hallofheroes/1st_floor/flag/1bfc_pledge.html > > God bless America! > God bless those who fought and continue to fight for our freedoms. > Fly those stars and stripes high and stand proud this 4th of July. > > Barb > Metro NYC Researcher > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Happy 4th of July to all. Two famous U.S. Presidents died on July 4th, but not in 1776. Any guesses? Many of us recall singing at least the first verse of "America" as school children, especially before assemblies. Do you remember the lyrics? > > "AMERICA" (My Country, 'Tis of Thee) > > 1. My country,' tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing; land > where my fathers died, land of the pilgrims' pride, from every mountainside > let freedom ring! 2.My native country, thee, land of the noble free, thy name I love; I love > > thy rocks and rills, thy woods and templed hills; my heart with rapture > thrills, like that above. 3.Let music swell the breeze, and ring from all the trees sweet freedom's > > song; let mortal tongues awake; let all that breathe partake; let rocks > their silence break, the sound prolong. 4. Our fathers' God, to thee, author of liberty, to thee we sing; long may > > our land be bright with freedom's holy light; protect us by thy might, > great God, our King. > [Source: http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh697.txt] And in those days, each classroom displayed an American flag. Upon prompting over the P.A. by a principal, or by the classroom teacher, each student stood, right hand over heart and recited the "Pledge of Allegiance." "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for all." Historically, the word "God" was added to the original Pledge, and is printed on money of the United States of America. The use of the word God has been challenged in both instances, under the guise of separation of church and state. When teaching high school, many of my non-native born students refused to participate claiming this is not their country. Yet, NYS required its teachers to lead the Pledge, and often observed how teachers performed the task. My response to immigrant students was requiring all to stand in honor of the U.S. flag, as a symbol of this country and all it afforded them and their families. Recitation could not be forced, but at least I provided them with a reason they must stand, just as I would do in their country of birth. R-e-s-p-e-c-t! Here's some historical links you may find interesting: http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm http://www.homeofheroes.com/hallofheroes/1st_floor/flag/1bfc_pledge.html God bless America! God bless those who fought and continue to fight for our freedoms. Fly those stars and stripes high and stand proud this 4th of July. Barb Metro NYC Researcher

Here's what seems to be a definitive answer, from ellisisland.org. PJ ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: RE: Ship manifests: line drawn through name & person's entire entry From: "Contact Us" <[email protected]> Date: Tue, July 3, 2012 11:30 am To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Pat, Thank you for your inquiry. You are correct- A line drawn through a passengers name means they never boarded the ship. Please be advised our database only holds the records of the port of New York. Sincerely, Donor Services 212-561-4588 [email protected]

If you go to the end of the manifest there is usually post 1900 a detained persons list. If the person isn't there they probably never boarded the ship MIKE -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 11:57 AM To: Brooklyn list Subject: [BKLYN] Ship manifests: line drawn through name & person's entire entry Hello, I've been assuming that this line indicates that the passenger did not in fact board the ship, but now I'm wondering if I'm correct. What do you know? Thanks, PJ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, I've been assuming that this line indicates that the passenger did not in fact board the ship, but now I'm wondering if I'm correct. What do you know? Thanks, PJ

The Royal Arcanum is the only surviving founding member of the American Fraternal Alliance (formerly the National Fraternal Congress of America), an organization representing 70 fraternal benefit societies and millions of fraternalists. Founded with unselfish motives on the part of its creators, conducted upon sound business principles, improved by an experience of over One Hundred and Thirty Five years, it has all the facilities for successfully promoting its objectives. Those objectives include: Uniting fraternally all eligible male and female persons of sound bodily health and good moral standing, who are socially acceptable. Giving moral and material aid in its power to its members and those dependent on them. Teaching morality without religious distinction, patriotism without partisanship, and brotherhood without creed or class. Educating the members socially, morally and intellectually. Assisting the families of deceased members. Establishing funds for the payment of Death Benefits, Educational Loans and Annuities. Sound similar to the Catholic Benevolent Legion fa healyi > From: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 19:19:15 -0400 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [BKLYN] Lexington Council, C B L? > > I may have found it. > > Catholic Benevolent Legion > > A fraternal assessment life-insurance society organized in Brooklyn, New York, U.S.A., 5 September, 1881. The charter members were Dr. George R. Kuhn, John C. McGuire, John D. Carroll, John Rooney, Thomas Cassin, John D. Keiley, Patrick F. Keany, William G. Ross, David T. Leahy, and Robert Myhan Bishop Loughlin of Brooklyn was the spiritual adviser of the supreme council, the body through which the legal incorporation was made, and which governed the entire organization. The object of the Legion was, as stated in its constitution, to unite fraternally, for social, benevolent, and intellectual improvement, Catholic men between the ages of eighteen and fifty-five years at the time of admission. Life insurance not to exceed $5,000 was given in various amounts to members according to an optional classification, assessments for which were governed by the age of the member. The original figures of these assessments were increased in 1905 to meet the requirements of sounder insuran! > ce experience, as was the case with most of the other organizations of this character. Reports to 1908 showed that the Legion had, from its establishment, paid in death insurance $19,000,000. It had 20,000 members out of a total, from time of organization, of 74,188, and was represented by councils in six States: New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Indiana, Illinois and Connecticut. > > > > Philip L. Hayes > http://www.hayesfamily.us > Monroe, CT USA > > "Genealogy is where you confuse the dead and irritate the living." > > Researching: > CT: Yerks, Condos, Smith > NY: Tierney, Lewis, Beattie, Yerks, Hone and Hanley > NH: Sheehan, Hayes, Kelty > IA: Smith > Wales: Lewis > Scotland: Beattie > Ireland: Hayes. Roach (Roche), Sheehan, Tierney, Kelty and Hanley > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I may have found it. Catholic Benevolent Legion A fraternal assessment life-insurance society organized in Brooklyn, New York, U.S.A., 5 September, 1881. The charter members were Dr. George R. Kuhn, John C. McGuire, John D. Carroll, John Rooney, Thomas Cassin, John D. Keiley, Patrick F. Keany, William G. Ross, David T. Leahy, and Robert Myhan Bishop Loughlin of Brooklyn was the spiritual adviser of the supreme council, the body through which the legal incorporation was made, and which governed the entire organization. The object of the Legion was, as stated in its constitution, to unite fraternally, for social, benevolent, and intellectual improvement, Catholic men between the ages of eighteen and fifty-five years at the time of admission. Life insurance not to exceed $5,000 was given in various amounts to members according to an optional classification, assessments for which were governed by the age of the member. The original figures of these assessments were increased in 1905 to meet the requirements of sounder insurance experience, as was the case with most of the other organizations of this character. Reports to 1908 showed that the Legion had, from its establishment, paid in death insurance $19,000,000. It had 20,000 members out of a total, from time of organization, of 74,188, and was represented by councils in six States: New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Indiana, Illinois and Connecticut. Philip L. Hayes http://www.hayesfamily.us Monroe, CT USA "Genealogy is where you confuse the dead and irritate the living." Researching: CT: Yerks, Condos, Smith NY: Tierney, Lewis, Beattie, Yerks, Hone and Hanley NH: Sheehan, Hayes, Kelty IA: Smith Wales: Lewis Scotland: Beattie Ireland: Hayes. Roach (Roche), Sheehan, Tierney, Kelty and Hanley

Greetings, I am looking for info on the following Kessler Families, 1900 Census Manhattan, New York, Kessler, Moses---------------------------head--------white-------37y ----Born 1863 in Austria Minnie---------------------------wife----------white-------37y-----Born 1863 in Austria Joseph---------------------------Son------------------------18y-----Born 1887 in Austria Katie------------------------------Daughter----------------11y-----Born 1889 in Austria Jacob (possibly Julius)-----Son-------------------------9y-----Born 1890 in Austria Aaron-----------------------------Son--------------------------3y----Born 1897 in Austria Yetta------------------------------Daughter-------------------1y----Born 1899 in N.Y. 1910 Census Manhattan, New York Kessler, Moses---------------------------45y Minnie----------------------------44y Kate------------------------------20y Abe(Julius)---------------------18y Samuel--------------------------13y Ethel------------------------------11y Hattie-------------------------------8y 1915 New York Census Kessler, Moses--------------------------52y Minnie--------------------------54y Julius---------------------------24y Aaron---------------------------18y Ethel----------------------------16y Hattie---------------------------12y 1920 Census Kings County, New York Kessler, Juilus--------Head----son of the above Moses----29y Sadie--------Wife-----nee Locker-----------------------24y Leonard----son--------------------------------------2 & ½ Y Jesse-------son---------------------------------------------9mo 1930 Census-----Bronx, New York Kessler, Julius--------30y Sadie-------38y Jess---------10y ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I found nothing for these Kessler in the 1940 Census Larry

I've "rescued" an old photograph of Helen Ruth HIBBARD of Gloucester, Massachusetts which was taken at the C. W. Hearn Studio in Boston, MA. The photograph include reference to the Wellesley Class of 1894. In addition, someone has written "29 Church St." on the back of the photograph, though I'm not sure if that refers to Helen's address or something else. Based on limited research I was able to gather the following information regarding Helen and her family: Helen Ruth HIBBARD was b. 18 Jan 1873 in CT to parents Rufus Piercy HIBBARD (b. 27 Jan 1844 in New York, NY) and Sarah Amelia BROWN (b. 2 Jul 1868 in NY). Helen was one of 6 children born to this couple including, Sidney Bartlett; Helen Ruth; Rufus Percival; Edward; Frank; and Robert Leonard HIBBARD, all born between 1870 and 1879 in West Springfield, MA; CT; New York, NY; and Brooklyn, NY. Census records provide the following details: 1880 census of Brooklyn, NY: Rufus B. HIBBARD, age 36, a Clergyman, born NY, parents born MA Sarah A. HIBBARD, wife, age 39, Keeping House, born NY, parents born NY Sidney B. HIBBARD, son, age 10, Attending School, born CT Helen R. HIBBARD, dau, age 7, Attending School, born CT Rufus P. HIBBARD, son, age 5, born CT Robert HIBBARD, son, age 10 months, born CT + 1 Domestic Servant 1900 census of Gloucester City, MA: Rufus P. HIBBARD, age 56, born Jan 1844, married 32 years, born NY, parents born NY/MA, a Clergyman Sarah HIBBARD, wife, age 59, born Jul 1840, married 32 years, 4 children/4 living, born NY, parents born NY Helen HIBBARD, dau, age 27, born Jan 1873, born CT + 1 Servant 1910 census of Islip, NY: Rufus P. HIBBARD, age 66, a widower, born NY, parents born NY/MA, a Clergyman Ruth H. HIBBARD, dau, age 37, born CT, parents born NY I am hoping to locate someone from this HIBBARD Family so that this wonderful old photograph can be returned to the care of family. If you are a member of this family, or you know someone who might be, please contact me. Thanks, Shelley

I recently found an Obit for my great grandfather. It includes a paragraph as follows. "The members of Lexington Council, 202, C. B. L. are requested to attend the funeral of Comrade James F Tierney from his late residence, 3991 1/2 14th Street., Brooklyn, Friday, November 6 at two P.M." What is C. B. L.? Is it some form of the Knights of Columbus? Thanks, Phil Hayes Philip L. Hayes http://www.hayesfamily.us Monroe, CT USA "Genealogy is where you confuse the dead and irritate the living." Researching: CT: Yerks, Condos, Smith NY: Tierney, Lewis, Beattie, Yerks, Hone and Hanley NH: Sheehan, Hayes, Kelty IA: Smith Wales: Lewis Scotland: Beattie Ireland: Hayes. Roach (Roche), Sheehan, Tierney, Kelty and Hanley

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Hi Mark, Thanks but not my parents.  I'm their one and only born in 1941.  My father was born in the Bronx in 1913, mother in Baligrod, Austria in 1910.  My grandmother was born in 1874 in New York City.  I definitely know my grandmother was living with them at that time.  My mother had a number of mother-in-law stories to tell. Barbara ________________________________ From: Mark Lomax <[email protected]> To: [email protected]; [email protected] Cc: Barbara Kiersh <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, June 27, 2012 8:31:31 PM Subject: Re: [BKLYN] please help me find my parents There are a Bertram and Sylvia "Lazarue," together with a 15-year-old son named "Grean," living in 1940 in Manhattan, on W. 135th St. No Henrietta, though.  There're in ED 31-1115, p. 11A, lines 9-11. On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Barbara Kiersh <[email protected]> wrote: Hi All, >  >So far, I'm less than enthusiastic about the 1940 census.  I've found several of >my family members and the biggest revelation so far is who was living with who, >and where they were living.  Other than that - nothing.  Well, my parents have >disappeared along with my grandmother.  I'm 99.9% sure they were living in the >Bronx.  My father's family were staunch Bronxites, although they did venture out >to other boroughs for a bit.  I was born in the Bronx in 1941.  My grandmother >died in 1942.  She lived with my parents. (Don't ask!)  I have my grandmother's >death cert and found the correct cenus page through Steve Morse.  The family is >not at that address.  I can't find them by indexed name, although I've tried >various spellings. I'm stumped.  > >  >I understand there are supplementary pages - 61A and 81A.  Maybe they're on one >of those pages, as I'm sure both my working parents wouldn't be home during the >day.  Although my grandmother should have been.  Maybe not.  How do you find >those supplementary pages?  The ED on Ancestry doesn't seem to include those.  > >  >My parents names are Bert and Sylvia Lazarus.  My grandmother is Henrietta >Lazarus.  The address they were living at when my grandmother died was 84 W. >188th St, Bronx, NY.  Sorry, I didn't keep the ED since I didn't find them on >the census page.  > >  >Any help would be appreciated. >  >Barbara Kiersh >Jacksonville, FL > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message >

> When I got to the ED page where the address should have been, I found an > address for the House before where they lived, and the house number past > where they lived, but their address was missing. > > Larry Larry, I had a similar problem with the 1905 NYState census - there was what seemed like a block missing, and it seemed like it should have been the block with the house. Checking with Google, I found out the house was built in 1905, so the part where it said something like no one was living at these addresses probably meant the block was under construction. Frustration, because I had only looked because I can't find them in that census and I know they were somewhere! So check the date the house was built - if it was not a row of houses, then quite possibly it hadn't been built yet. Also, check wherever they put the people they didn't get on the first walk-through - end of the ED, maybe? I'm not sure, but they might be there. Also, and I don't really know if this happened in Brooklyn or if so when and where, but sometimes streets do get renumbered. Hope this helps, Theresa