Ted -- My grandmother was born in Kingstown in 1888, according to her official birth certificate, but she later said/?believed? that she was born in 1892. Others in her extended Co. Dublin and Co. Clare families had sometimes highly variable ages from one record or year to the next. I think there could be several explanations. One reason could be that paper birth records might not have been available to parents, or in wide use. If a person wanted to know when a birth, baptism, or death occurred, s/he could go to the church and have the priest look up the record. Still another reason might be that parents might not read and write, or might not do so with ease, so they did not keep their own written records. And if those parents had many, many children, they might have had trouble remembering exactly when all of the children were born and the children might have received incorrect information from the parents. Still another reason might have been a practice among some Irish of not always telling any "official" (e.g., Brits) the exact truth, to avoid possible repercussions. That practice may have become habit by the time a person settled in the US. Finally, maybe knowing one's exact age may not have been a very important matter if life was very hard and simply surviving took all one's time and energy. PJ > Judi, > > Perhaps she lied about her age to make her ten years younger, rather > then the normal 3 or 4 some women lied. > > Ted >

Many good points, PJ! And I love # 1 LOL My 4th generation born in the USA grandpa celebrated his Manhattan birth on April 4th...until he applied for SS Retirement, when he needed an official copy of his BC. It turned out his birthday was March 4th, but the BC was processed on April 4th. Both of his parents read English. RE #2 secret keeping still lives. # 3 knowing one's correct age became more important as time passed to be eligible for sacraments, work, marriage, military, etc. RC Marriage dispensations were granted due to age, pregnant brides, and other reasons. Barb -----Original Message----- From: pjsalis [email protected] Ted -- 1) if those parents had many, many children, they might have had trouble remembering exactly when all of the children were born and the children might have received incorrect information from the parents. 2) Still another reason might have been a practice among some Irish of not always telling any "official" (e.g., Brits) the exact truth, to avoid possible repercussions. That practice may have become habit by the time a person settled in the US. 3) Finally, maybe knowing one's exact age may not have been a very important matter if life was very hard and simply surviving took all one's time and energy. PJ

For most of my Irish ancestors, I find they did not know how old they were (age changed from census to census) or what year they emigrated. Certainly does make it difficult to pin things down. Ally -------Original Message------- From: [email protected] Date: 03/26/14 12:29:00 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NY-IRISH] variable reported ages Many good points, PJ! And I love # 1 LOL My 4th generation born in the USA grandpa celebrated his Manhattan birth on April 4th...until he applied for SS Retirement, when he needed an official copy of his BC. It turned out his birthday was March 4th, but the BC was processed on April 4th. Both of his parents read English. RE #2 secret keeping still lives. # 3 knowing one's correct age became more important as time passed to be eligible for sacraments, work, marriage, military, etc. RC Marriage dispensations were granted due to age, pregnant brides, and other reasons. Barb

PJ- You have certainly covered the field in enumerating reasons for a variation in age. I'm thinking that if I had been born 150 years ago on a farm in a rural area of a country that was now 3000 miles away over an endless ocean, would I really know (or care) precisely how old I was. It would be by guess or by gosh, and the least of my troubles. Jack Langton -----Original Message----- From: pjsalis <[email protected]> To: ny-irish <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Mar 26, 2014 12:12 pm Subject: [NY-IRISH] variable reported ages Ted -- My grandmother was born in Kingstown in 1888, according to her official birth certificate, but she later said/?believed? that she was born in 1892. Others in her extended Co. Dublin and Co. Clare families had sometimes highly variable ages from one record or year to the next. I think there could be several explanations. One reason could be that paper birth records might not have been available to parents, or in wide use. If a person wanted to know when a birth, baptism, or death occurred, s/he could go to the church and have the priest look up the record. Still another reason might be that parents might not read and write, or might not do so with ease, so they did not keep their own written records. And if those parents had many, many children, they might have had trouble remembering exactly when all of the children were born and the children might have received incorrect information from the parents. Still another reason might have been a practice among some Irish of not always telling any "official" (e.g., Brits) the exact truth, to avoid possible repercussions. That practice may have become habit by the time a person settled in the US. Finally, maybe knowing one's exact age may not have been a very important matter if life was very hard and simply surviving took all one's time and energy. PJ > Judi, > > Perhaps she lied about her age to make her ten years younger, rather > then the normal 3 or 4 some women lied. > > Ted > ====NY-Irish Mailing List==== Don't forget to check out the NY-Irish mailing list website. Also, check/add your NY-Irish surnames on the Surname Registry: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/NYIrishList/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

PJ, Excellent reasons. I think the last one is very pertinent in many cases. Surviving was all people could cope with, the rest didn't matter. I'm sure that is SO true in some parts of the world. Ted On 3/26/2014 12:12 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Ted -- > > My grandmother was born in Kingstown in 1888, according to her official > birth certificate, but she later said/?believed? that she was born in > 1892. Others in her extended Co. Dublin and Co. Clare families had > sometimes highly variable ages from one record or year to the next. > > I think there could be several explanations. One reason could be that > paper birth records might not have been available to parents, or in wide > use. If a person wanted to know when a birth, baptism, or death occurred, > s/he could go to the church and have the priest look up the record. Still > another reason might be that parents might not read and write, or might > not do so with ease, so they did not keep their own written records. And > if those parents had many, many children, they might have had trouble > remembering exactly when all of the children were born and the children > might have received incorrect information from the parents. Still another > reason might have been a practice among some Irish of not always telling > any "official" (e.g., Brits) the exact truth, to avoid possible > repercussions. That practice may have become habit by the time a person > settled in the US. Finally, maybe knowing one's exact age may not have > been a very important matter if life was very hard and simply surviving > took all one's time and energy. > > PJ > > > > >> Judi, >> >> Perhaps she lied about her age to make her ten years younger, rather >> then the normal 3 or 4 some women lied. >> >> Ted >> > > > ====NY-Irish Mailing List==== > Don't forget to check out the NY-Irish mailing list website. Also, check/add your NY-Irish surnames on the Surname Registry: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/NYIrishList/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In the 80s, I worked with immigrant populations, many of them from Afghanistan. When they came into the country, if they didn't know their birthdates, or the birthdates of their children, the year was estimated, and the date pit down for them was 1/1. If their future families ever research their ancestors, they may be surprised to learn that everybody in the family was born on New Year's Day. Just like race horses! I noticed quite of few of my relatives had the birth or immigration date of March 17, and thought that was unusual. I found mention of it on a few sites that officials gave that date to Irish people who didn't know their true dates. Judi Subject: Re: [NY-IRISH] variable reported ages PJ, Excellent reasons. I think the last one is very pertinent in many cases. Surviving was all people could cope with, the rest didn't matter. I'm sure that is SO true in some parts of the world.