Good information, Virginia. Thanks. Terry -----Original Message----- From: ny-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ny-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of VLB via Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 3:29 PM To: Ny Irish Subject: [NY-IRISH] Irish Catholic church records--where to get help deciphering Since Irish Catholic baptism and marriage records came online free last year at http://registers.nli.ie/ people have needed help deciphering the old handwriting, in Latin or English. The best site I know of is http://www.boards.ie/ It is free to join. It's based in Ireland and has many topic areas/boards. I had to sign up for 3 boards, genealogy and history being of the most interest to me. On the genealogy board, there is a long-running thread called 'NLI parish registers decipher thread'. Post your question there with an image if possible--easy to do. A lot of very experienced people will jump in to help. Most members seem to be Irish so they know their way around Irish genealogy. And again, it's free. Virginia

While searching for a 1926 NYC Marriage License at the NYC Municipal Archives last week, the luck of the Irish was with me. The three-page license was accompanied by the groom's news-making divorce papers, from his first marriage! No hint of this was visible in the license microfiche. Since the Archives M.O. is that staff prints all documents, then hands them to researchers on the way out the door, I discovered these divorce papers while riding the train home. BTW it appears that marriage #2 was a Catholic marriage. Another instance of new documents creating new questions. New York State seals divorce records for 100 years, to the day. Sure, you can check dates of marital actions in the county clerk's office, but it's nothing like the spicy details. Genealogy...ya gotta love it! Barb MizScarlettNY@aol.com

Saturday, July 30, 2016 "Finding the Fallen:" U.S.A. Military Headstone Photography Day https://blog.eogn.com/2016/06/06/join-the-nationwide-service-project-finding-the-fallen/#comment-245367 SIGNUP>>>https://billiongraves.com/finding-the-fallen A download app will be sent to you for use at the cemetery. QUESTIONS>>>eagle@billiongraves.com Barb MizScarlettNY@aol.com

If you need a Catholic parish in the Archdiocese of New York, this is a good place to start.>>> http://www.archny.org/parishfinder The Archdiocese includes the NYC counties of Manhattan, Bronx, & Staten Island, as well as NYS counties [east of Hudson River] Westchester, Putnam and [west of Hudson River] Rockland, Orange, Sullivan and Ulster. The Archdiocese provided this search link after parishes closed or merged. It's not a definitive tool for locating ancestral parishes because it uses a current map. If you're unfamiliar with [especially] NYC, it may be more confusing. The way around it is to cross reference parishes with other sources. Consider the family's street address*, culture/language, and approximate year. For MANHATTAN parishes, you might cross reference using Charles Sullivan's work.>>> 1) ZIP CODE List of Catholic Parishes: http://bklyn-genealogy-info.stevemorse.org/Worship/Manh.Catholic.zip.html 2) DATE ESTABLISHED List of Catholic Parishes: http://bklyn-genealogy-info.stevemorse.org/Worship/Manh.Catholic.date.html 3) ALPH List of Catholic Parishes: http://bklyn-genealogy-info.stevemorse.org/Worship/Manh.Catholic.name.html In August 2015, parishes closed or merged. This is significant so your know where old records repose. l) FULL MERGER LIST---Church on left usurps church on right. Right churches no longer have Mass or sacraments. https://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/parish_list_2_final_-_one_church_103114_2.pdf 2) PARTIAL MERGER LIST---Both churches celebrate Mass and sacraments. It sounds like a forewarning of potential closures to me. https://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/parish_list_1_final_-_both_churches_103114_2.pdf I recommend requesting sacramental look ups in writing, using simple language. Parishes that were once Irish, Italian or German, may now be Spanish, Chinese or Algerian. English may be the second language of office staff. I hope that this makes your search easier. Barb * It's handy to create a chrono list of family addresses, as you discover them..

Are you growing frustrated while navigating NYC Marriage Licenses Indexes 1908-1929 online?* https://archive.org/details/nycmarriageindex Here are some observations to alleviate your bleary-eyed woes. 1) GIVEN: Every year for every county is not available...yet. [1930 - 1951 is promised.] 2) Open above link. See "years" column on the right? Click on a year to view indexes exist. 3) A separate Bronx index begins in 1914. Prior to that, search Manhattan. 4) 1936 is fully missing from this list, so far. 5) Some Staten Island indexes cover two years. 6) Once in an index, be cognizant of the months you're searching in the left vertical column. 7) Use your widest screen shot. Grooms on left; brides on right. **8) When you score a hit, record the YEAR, COUNTY, VOLUME #, LICENSE #, DATE, NAME. Yes, you can cross reference each hit by searching for the partner next. Yes, marriage license # and date should match your bride and groom. 9) Shortcut: Search for the most unusual surname first. 10) The licensing county will be the same as the marriage county. 11) Unsure of the location? Search 1st Staten Island, 4th Brooklyn, 5th Manhattan. Smallest first. 12) Buddy up! Ask a genie friend to search one of yours, for one of theirs. [We did this with Emigrant Savings Bank!] You have some search tips for these licenses? Please post them to all. * A microfilm version of "marriage license" indexes exists at NYC Muni Archives. Same format, different channel. ** With my more unusual surnames, I do not spend time cross referencing. Barb MizScarlettNY@aol.com @BAMS, 7-24-2016= Do not forward or repost w/o my consent. .

NYC, Brooklyn and Westchester residents are noted in the recently released Marriage Notices 1797-1860 of TIGS. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nytigs/MarriageNotices-TroyNewspapers/Introduction-Index.htm The Troy Irish Genealogy Society (TIGS) was founded by a small group of people, including our Pat Connors from NY-Irish. Please note: Troy as a major hub that sits on Albany County's eastern border, and the MA/VT western border, straight up the Hudson River from NYC. It offered lush farmland to emigrant Irish and Germans. Travel by boat preceded the network of NY Central RR trains, so Troy & Albany were merely a hop away from NYC. NYC and Westchester researchers don't want to overlook TIGS transcription projects. Here's their most recent list. >>> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nytigs/ProjectsPage.htm Barb MizScarlettNY@aol.com

Back in high school, when students were distracted by weekend plans, football games, and the who's smoochin' who scenarios, teachers had a hard time holding our attention. But, whenever Mr. Martin [Latin 1-4] began with, "A word to the wise..." I perked up and took note. So, here's "a word to the wise" about Brooklyn research, specifically vitals = BMDs = Births, Marriages, Deaths. IGG [Italilan] and GGG [German] genealogical volunteers co-transcribed handwritten BMD records into the wonderful indexes that we access free online today. Sure, an occasional person falls through the gaps, hopefully not the subway gaps the MTA PA system reminds us about. The number of folks who told me they can't track ancestors in Brooklyn is immeasurable. So, after you try a standard search, without results, just go to the IGG section (top left drop-down) titled "Early Kings and Queens records." These "Early" Kings/Brooklyn/Queens BMDs are on *separate films* at the NYC Municipal Archives. By "separate" I mean these films are not the same films that a standard search will not bring forth, NOT via IGG or GGG or Stevemorse.org, no way, no how. So, if your're diving into Brooklyn BMDs, and keep surfacing empty-handed, try these early links. DEATHS: http://italiangen.org/records-search/deaths_early_town.php BIRTHS: http://italiangen.org/records-search/births_early_town.php MARRIAGES: http://italiangen.org/records-search/marriages_early_town.php Barb MizScarlettNY@aol.com

GreenWood Cemetery (opened 1838, Brooklyn NYC) was a popular non-sectarian burial ground for Civil War veterans. Families picnicked on its lush grounds, when urban parkland was at a minimum. Whether your ancestor is buried here or not, you might enjoy these biographies of its military veterans. http://www.green-wood.com/2015/civil-war-biographies-archive/ To search for an ancestor's burial, do so here.>>> http://www.green-wood.com/burial_search/ Barb MizScarlettNY@aol.com

"Many of those who found themselves in Smiths Falls [Ontario] came from Coollattin Estate, which was owned by the Fitzwilliam family. In 1847, the most harrowing year of the Irish Famine, the British Parliament passed legislation that transferred all responsibility for the welfare of Irish tenants living on estates from the government and to the landlords. Many of these landlords were “absentee,” meaning they mostly lived in England, and agents collected the rent from their tenants and would managed the estate in their stead. "Several of these landlords decided it was best to rid themselves of these tenants and the responsibility of looking after them by aiding their passage to the USA or to Canada. During the years 1847 to 1856 6,000 Wicklow tenants who lived on the CoollattinEstate found themselves forced to relocate with the 'help' of the Fitzwilliams..." "Among these names were Byrne, Carr, Clare, Coghlan, Dagg, Doyle, Eagers, Jackson, Kenny, Lowman, Murphy, Pearson, Pierce, Rickby, Tallant, Tallon, Timmons and Whelan." To continue reading, check here>>> http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/Canadian-city-of-refuge-for-famine-emigrants-explores-link-with-Wicklow-town.html Barb MizScarlettNY@aol.com

New York City--then only Manhattan--was not the only city to have a second enumeration for the 1870 census.  Philadelphia and Indianapolis also had two enumerations.  Many people moved between Philadelphia and New York as they are so close so it's always worth checking Philly records for your family.                                              Thanks--Virginia

Some verrrrrrrrrrry early Irish marriages are searchable now, thanks to volunteer transcriptionists at the Irish Genealogical Society. PURPOSE: "This Index seeks to provide pointers to the many alternative sources beyond parish registers and civil registration records. The extant parish registers are, in any case, becoming more available through websites includingRootsIreland.ie, and the government website IrishGenealogy.ie." INTRO to the INDEX>>> http://www.irishancestors.ie/?page_id=1921 Chapman Geographic Code>>> http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/Regions/Codes TIP: Search by first three letters of surname to account for misspellings. You enter either bride or groom, OR both. SEARCH the INDEX>>> http://www.irishancestors.ie/search/marriage/index.php Barb MizScarlettNY@aol.com

Posted by NYPL>>> "Guide to Searching the Census by New York City Address" https://www.nypl.org/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/searching-the-census_2.pdf Barb MizscarlettNY@aol.com

It's a NYC thing. Barb --------------------------- THE 1870 FEDERAL CENSUS FOR NEW YORK CITY. by Charles Sullivan, 13 July 2001 =============================================================== "Note: In 1870, New York City consisted ONLY of New York County, comprised of Manhattan Island and several smaller islands in the East River and NY Harbor, i.e., Blackwell's Island (now Roosevelt Island), Governor's Island, Ellis Island, Bedloe's Island (now Liberty Island), and Ward's Island. "In 1870 (as in recent years), the large cities complained they were undercounted in the census. The hue and cry became great enough that the Census Bureau caved in and undertook a recount for some cities, NY City included. This recount is known as the ***1870 2nd Enumeration.*** (The recount was NOT conducted in the other four counties which today are included in NY City, i.e., Kings, Queens, Richmond, and Bronx.) "The original census (or 1st Enumeration) was conducted beginning 1 June 1870. The 2nd Enumeration was conducted about 6 months later, in the December-January time frame. "Note: The Election Districts were redistricted following the 1st Enumeration so will usually be different for the 2nd Enumeration although the Wards will be the same. However street addresses were recorded for the first time in the 2nd Enumeration, so given an address, it's usually not too difficult to scroll down the microfilm for the Ward and zero in on the right page." Con't>>>http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nyirish/Census%20Research.html -----Original Message----- From: Krys Boccumini via kkbocc@gmail.com I never heard of any census being done twice either. The census bureau doesn't mention it in relation to the 1870 census on their website. What I DO KNOW was that there were several copies of each census transcribed: the field copy, the state copy and the federal copy. Perhaps the different "censuses" were actually 2 different transcriptions. ----------- mneuman@consolidated.net, I wasn't aware that the 1870 census was taken twice. Was this only for New York state? I am researching Peter Leier. He is on the 1870 census in Texas, but that census taker didn't get it right. Peter Leier enlisted in the U.S. army in New York City in January of 1871. > Leier didn't show up in Texas at Fort Griffin until the spring of 1871. > When the census taker got around to Shackelford County (Texas), he was most > likely given a copy of those present at the fort on that day in 1871, thus > putting Leier down (and others) as present in 1870. Marie Neuman Gray Waller County, Texas

USGEN WEB transcribed this guide to Westchester County institutions in the 1930 census. Once you find the town you want, click on the film number to the left. The next page will direct you to the correct census page for the institution that you seek. http://www.us-census.org/states/newyork/teams/westchester1930.htm Barb MizScarlettNY@aol.com

-----Original Message----- From: Sheila MacAvoy Block <macavoy@cox.net> The film number cited # 1671687 is one of the three films at FHL titled "Bodies In Transit." New York City was so inundated with the bodies of soldiers who died in the fighting during the Civil War that the city fathers elected to require the application for a transit permit in order to allow the bodies to travel across the waters surrounding the city on their way to places in New England. They kept this system in place after the war but it was discontinued in the later part of the 19th C. It means your ancestor definitely died elsewhere than NY City and was transported from that place to a burial ground nearer his family. The film is organized by date and then alphabetically. The information given on the application is as follows; Date of the transit, name of the deceased, age, place of death, DOD, cause of death, place of birth, location of body (at present), place to be interred, how certified, name and address of applicant. This later usually appears to be the name of an undertaker. When you get the information RE place of death you can try to get a death certificate. But there is quite a bit of information in the application. Sheila Santa Barbara

Walter Greenspan of Jericho NY and MT = Soyamaven@aol.com Our friend. Our inspiration lives in his many geographical Rootsweb posts. "You Ain't Where You Think Your Are" http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nynassa2/populationsurvey1.htm Barb MizScarlettNY@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth Martinez-Gibson via <nynewyor@rootsweb.com> What a wealth of information he was, always willing to provide in depth information...so knowledgeable. He is without a doubt very much missed. ________________________________ Walter was such a wealth of information. he is deeply missed.Dee in Phoenix www.azwvgs.org<http://www.azwvgs.org From: mizscarlettny@aol.com> It was about this time, three years ago, that we lost our friend and genealogist extraordinaire, Walter Greenspan. Many thanks to Marie for digging out my original post from Rootsweb's archives. Walter GREENSPAN, of Great Falls, MT and Jerico, NY passed away on 13 July 2013, at 66 years of age, after a sudden illness. Walter was born in Brooklyn, NYC on 20 Dec 1945 to Jack and Beatrice GREENSPAN. Walter was involved in the Jewish community of Great Falls, MT before they knew what matzoh was [He had it shipped from NY.] or had an in-state rabbai. Walter had a keen wit, astute mind, and was formerly a commodities analyst. He is survived by two adult, twin daughters who were his pride and joy. Walter was also involved with Metro NYC Genealogy for the past decase, and was a whiz at finding genealogical repositories for others. We, in Metro NYC will miss him terribly. Barb MizScarlettNY@aol.com

List of names of Queens NYC Volunteers for US Civil War http://bklyn-genealogy-info.stevemorse.org/Queens/history/civilwar6.html Barb MizScarlettNY@aol.com

Everyone I've met in Metro NYC knew at least one of the sacrificial victims or first responders of the NYC World Trade Center attack of September 11, 2001. Today, the final 28-page document pertaining to the 9/11 investigation was declassified and released to the public, with "lightly redacted" text. "Newly declassified pages from a congressional report into 9/11 released Friday have reignited speculation that some of the hijackers had links to Saudis, including government officials — allegations that were never substantiated by later U.S. investigations into the terrorist attacks. "Congress released the last chapter of the congressional inquiry that has been kept under wraps for more than 13 years, stored in a secure room in the basement of the Capitol. Lawmakers and relatives of victims of the attacks, who believe that Saudi links to the attackers were not thoroughly investigated, campaigned for years to get the pages released." Continued....http://www.mintpressnews.com/classified-28-pages-911-report-released-saudi-support-still-speculated/218491/ NYC World Trade Center Victims>>> http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/09/10/list-victims-from-sept-11-2001.html Names of 2983 victims memorialized at WTC>>> http://www.nyc.gov/html/om/pdf/2011/list_of_names_2011.pdf Barb MizScarlettNY@aol.com

Not sure you have stated exactly how Rootsweb has abused you? Plus, I have been on Rootsweb since they started back in the late 1990s before being owned by Ancestry and while being a list admin for a number of lists since the beginning, I have never experienced 'abuse' from either organization. The list admin of the other list just may be busy, something in his/her life maybe happening and he/she is not up with the lists. I was in the hospital 5 years ago and could not deal with all the lists I admin for a couple of weeks. Things happen. Have patience. My suggestion. Go to the help desk at the Rootsweb main page: www.rootsweb,custhelp.com Right now the link is not working because the website is down for repairs/moving. But, when it is up, write them and let them know your problems. In the meanwhile, have patience. You are not begin ignored, the site is down for repairs. Sometimes it may take a few weeks. > Here is my chance on complaining on the Support Team and Rootsweb.com. > > I am Subscribed to a certain Surname M. List and can not leave a message > like this. I receive messages daily/every second or third day from this > List. I can not even contact the Admin. > > I am subscribed to another List and have complained that I get bounced > messages due to incorrect spelling on my part. I have told them "twice" > that I am careful in what I am typing. The last message I had sent them > was that I had said I do not like to be accussed of being "a fibber". I > am not very happy with the Help Section!! I am p'd off. > > I am here just like you trying my darnedest to find out about my families > immigrating into the States and Canada from Ireland and the UK. I do not > feel that we should be getting this kind of abuse from anyone! I do not > care who they think they are! Again, just like you, this is only a hobby > but I certainly do not like to be accused of something I have not done!! > > Just my bit ..... for the night/day, whatever. > > Thank you for listening. > > Shannah TWISS > overthepond648@gmail.com > Canada > -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA, list admin http://www.connorsgenealogy.com nymets22@gmail.com

Hello, Here is my chance on complaining on the Support Team and Rootsweb.com. I am Subscribed to a certain Surname M. List and can not leave a message like this. I receive messages daily/every second or third day from this List. I can not even contact the Admin. I am subscribed to another List and have complained that I get bounced messages due to incorrect spelling on my part. I have told them "twice" that I am careful in what I am typing. The last message I had sent them was that I had said I do not like to be accussed of being "a fibber". I am not very happy with the Help Section!! I am p'd off. I am here just like you trying my darnedest to find out about my families immigrating into the States and Canada from Ireland and the UK. I do not feel that we should be getting this kind of abuse from anyone! I do not care who they think they are! Again, just like you, this is only a hobby but I certainly do not like to be accused of something I have not done!! Just my bit ..... for the night/day, whatever. Thank you for listening. Shannah TWISS overthepond648@gmail.com Canada