And don't forget that people married a lot in Maryland. My own mom, a native Manhattanite, went off and went to "Marry-land" because you didn't have to wait. Yep, my brother followed fewer than 9 months later! Irene

Hi Pat; I was just searching my e-mails for the NY-Irish and found your response. I had missed it. Thank you for your response. I had no idea there was a Waterford County in New York and that is something I will have to keep in mind. I appreciate that. My grandmothers birth record said parents place of birth was "Waterford County, Ireland" but you know how that can be, they did come to Mass from New York. I do not have a marriage record for them yet. That is what I am currently trying to find as it would probably have parent names on it. For the 1910 census they were living in Mass, had been married 8 years and immigration dates were shown as 1901 for him and 1898 for her. This means they would have to have married in the US. I know there is no marriage record for them in Massachusetts. My grandmother said they were in New York before they came to Massachusetts and she was born in 1903. At least I have a fairly narrow window to search. Now I am faced with the daunting prospect of searching New York which I don't know much about. No immigration records have given a clue as to possible family/extended family. btw - I have a membership at the New England Historical Society which expires the end of January. It includes online access for Massachusetts BMD's through 1915. If anyone needs anything looked up please let me know and I will do that for you. The online database includes a photo of the original record. Hope you had a great holiday, Janet ________________________________ From: Pat Connors <nymets22@gmail.com> To: ny-irish@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, December 21, 2009 2:01:37 PM Subject: Re: [NY-IRISH] Starting point Were they from Waterford County in New York State or County Waterford in Ireland? It makes a big difference as you can imagine as to your course for searching up records. If you already have the church where they were married, I would try to get the marriage record from the church to find parents names and then use the censuses to track them backward. I needed a baptism record from New Rochelle NY so my son could apply for dual citizenship with Ireland and all I had to do is call the rectory and the record was sent without charge. >From what she said I she thought they had come to Massachusetts from New > York and her birth record says both were from Waterford County. The 1910 > census says they had been married for 8 years, or 1902, which seems about > right as my grandmother was born 1903 (it also said she was 5 and she was 7 > so usual variances in census info). > > I looked on the New York German site and they do have an Ellen Morrissey > marrying a James J. Lenihan in 1899- possible misspelling I guess. It may > be them but, unfortunately, I can't use it until I have searched and found > no other record for them. With the link you provided I can now start to > search the individual churches and see what I find. > > Do you have any other suggestions for me? I don't know their parents names > at this point. Just that they were from Waterford. > > -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com ====NY-Irish Mailing List==== Don't forget to check out the NY-Irish mailing list website. Also, check/add your NY-Irish surnames on the Surname Registry: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/NYIrishList/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NY-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Carol You are welcome. Both parishes you mention would be covered in the IFHF records on line. That is the good part. I caution you though. You have 2 very common names and remember that 50% of the Cork database is not showing in any results that you may find. Maybe that will change but to date west Cork is no where to be found except in the parish and Dublin. It appears you have some challenging circumstances but do your best to locate footprints in the US to further your searches in the Irish databases. Best of luck. Merry Christmas! John John Steitz Luck Brothers, Inc. 73 Trade Road Plattsburgh, NY 12901 518-561-4321 T 518-561-8462 F 518-569-0140 C johnst@luckbros.com -----Original Message----- From: ny-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ny-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nick & Carol Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 4:23 PM To: ny-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NY-IRISH] Searching back from NY to Ireland Hi, Many thanks to Claire and John for their responses. You've helped me see that there is more I do not know about researching in Ireland. What are the GRO records that Claire wrote of? And how do I find the registration districts of Co. Cork? My ancestors were born in the early 1800s, definitely prior to 1864. I do not have baptism records for them in this country as my GG GF was in the military and the children (my G GM was born on a military base in San Francisco, CA in 1872. Her siblings were born in Alaska during the purchase of that territory and prior to it becoming a US state. I have not located them in the 1870 US Census because they were in Alaska. By 1880, they were living in Washington, DC, and probably long- since baptized. I have strong reason to believe that my GG GF John O'CONNELL, who was in NYC 1855 to enlist in the military and again in 1865 to marry by GG GM Ellen SULLIVAN, was from Killavullen, Co. Cork. Using the IFHF site today, I found a baptismal record that matches what I know and what I suspect about him. And it's only ONE record! After going through parish after parish, I discovered a baptismal record that is a match to my Ellen SULLIVAN in a village called Kanturk, Co. Cork. That is very exciting! I have a lead, not a confirmed lead, but a lead (!), and I haven't had one like this in so long. It gives me a place to start searching. Yooo hooo! What a Christmas present! Thank you again, Carol Hokana Boston (now researching HALLORAN, SULLIVAN, O'CONNELL, and HIGGINS in Co. Cork) ====NY-Irish Mailing List==== Don't forget to check out the NY-Irish mailing list website. Also, check/add your NY-Irish surnames on the Surname Registry: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/NYIrishList/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NY-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Carol, The IFHF site has mostly church records at this point, so it would have baptism (not birth) records. Baptism (and church marriage) records have whatever information the priest felt like recording, so it's hard to predict what would be in the record you want. If you want the official birth or marriage record (which has most of the info you asked about -- the marriage record does not show mother's names), you would have to order it from the GRO records. FamilySearchLabs.org has put the Irish BMD indexes online free, from which you can get the relevant info to order the record -- assuming it's after 1864, when Irish birth records begin. If it's a year that the LDS have on film, you can order the entry from them, probably your cheapest option. Otherwise, you have to order it from the GRO (online or by mail) and hope you have the right entry. (Do you know the registration districts in Cork? The indexes will show only the districts, not the counties, which can cause problems with the districts that cross county boundaries). Hope that helps. Claire K. On Dec 23, 2009, at 8:47 PM, Nick & Carol wrote: > ...Has anyone used the website organized by the Irish Family History > Foundation, http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/? ... > 1. Does the birth record give the full name of each parent (including > the mother's maiden name)? What other info does it give? > > 2. Does the marriage record give the names of the bride and groom's > parents? Does it give the town where the bride and groom are from? > Any other info?

This was where my family went. It was a very Irish parish. Barb > St John The Evangelist Parish which was founded in 1840 might be the > closest church. > 348 E. 55th St. > New York, NY 10022 > Phone: (212) 753-8418 Fax: (212) 826-1848

Hi, Many thanks to Claire and John for their responses. You've helped me see that there is more I do not know about researching in Ireland. What are the GRO records that Claire wrote of? And how do I find the registration districts of Co. Cork? My ancestors were born in the early 1800s, definitely prior to 1864. I do not have baptism records for them in this country as my GG GF was in the military and the children (my G GM was born on a military base in San Francisco, CA in 1872. Her siblings were born in Alaska during the purchase of that territory and prior to it becoming a US state. I have not located them in the 1870 US Census because they were in Alaska. By 1880, they were living in Washington, DC, and probably long- since baptized. I have strong reason to believe that my GG GF John O'CONNELL, who was in NYC 1855 to enlist in the military and again in 1865 to marry by GG GM Ellen SULLIVAN, was from Killavullen, Co. Cork. Using the IFHF site today, I found a baptismal record that matches what I know and what I suspect about him. And it's only ONE record! After going through parish after parish, I discovered a baptismal record that is a match to my Ellen SULLIVAN in a village called Kanturk, Co. Cork. That is very exciting! I have a lead, not a confirmed lead, but a lead (!), and I haven't had one like this in so long. It gives me a place to start searching. Yooo hooo! What a Christmas present! Thank you again, Carol Hokana Boston (now researching HALLORAN, SULLIVAN, O'CONNELL, and HIGGINS in Co. Cork)

Hello Carol- The IFHF site may say County Cork but it is really only the northern half of baptism & marriage records pre 1864. Post 1864 the BMD start to become available. It is a great source and yes it does cost 5Euro about $7.50 per record view which are printable but I have used it in several ways. The record will give Priest name, sponsor/witness names and parent names. First, you can filter by father's name for a baptism record. Second you can filter by parish if by chance you know it. Other ideas to combine in: Third , get a hint from Griffiths Fourth , there is a new site, http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/ with Kerry & Dublin records FREE that plans to release County Cork "soon". You may want to get a list of baptism sponsors in US which may be connected that help your filter process. As a descendent of a Buckley and Scannell from west Cork , I just wait. Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays! John -----Original Message----- From: ny-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ny-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nick & Carol Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 2:48 PM To: ny-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: [NY-IRISH] Searching back from NY to Ireland I'm trying to make the jump from my Irish ancestors in NY back to County Cork but I have yet to make any concrete links. Partly this is due to me not being able to find out when they immigrated so that means I haven't been able to get any info on their home towns and such. But that's another day's question... Has anyone used the website organized by the Irish Family History Foundation, http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/? They've just added some records to their online database, and I'd like to view some of them, but at €5.00 per record, that can get pretty expensive pretty quick, esp if the records don't contain the info I'm hoping for. So, if you have paid to view records at that site, esp from Co. Cork, I have a couple of questions for you. 1. Does the birth record give the full name of each parent (including the mother's maiden name)? What other info does it give? 2. Does the marriage record give the names of the bride and groom's parents? Does it give the town where the bride and groom are from? Any other info? Thank you so much, Merry Christmas! Carol Hokana Boston (now researching HALLORAN, O'CONNELL, and HIGGINS in Co. Cork) P.S. Their website is changing from http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/ to http://www.RootsIreland.ie ====NY-Irish Mailing List==== Don't forget to check out the NY-Irish mailing list website. Also, check/add your NY-Irish surnames on the Surname Registry: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/NYIrishList/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NY-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm trying to make the jump from my Irish ancestors in NY back to County Cork but I have yet to make any concrete links. Partly this is due to me not being able to find out when they immigrated so that means I haven't been able to get any info on their home towns and such. But that's another day's question... Has anyone used the website organized by the Irish Family History Foundation, http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/? They've just added some records to their online database, and I'd like to view some of them, but at €5.00 per record, that can get pretty expensive pretty quick, esp if the records don't contain the info I'm hoping for. So, if you have paid to view records at that site, esp from Co. Cork, I have a couple of questions for you. 1. Does the birth record give the full name of each parent (including the mother's maiden name)? What other info does it give? 2. Does the marriage record give the names of the bride and groom's parents? Does it give the town where the bride and groom are from? Any other info? Thank you so much, Merry Christmas! Carol Hokana Boston (now researching HALLORAN, O'CONNELL, and HIGGINS in Co. Cork) P.S. Their website is changing from http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/ to http://www.RootsIreland.ie

Carol, Yes, I've recently used the site:  http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/?  My records tho were from County Meath, the town of Navan.  Each record is different as to the information. On the marriage records one of mine gave the maiden name of the bride plus the name of her parents.  Also gave the name of the "witnesses".  Another record only had the bride and grooms names.   It just depends on the time frame.  I'm searching back to the early 1800's and forward.  The Civil death records gave lots of info.  Name, address, occupation, informant.  There again, it just depends on the time of the record.  The birth records I've looked at are the same - depending on who the person is, what church it was, etc. All in all, I was very satisfied.  Yes, the cost is a little pricey, BUT when you consider where these records come from (Ireland) you can't begin to travel over there and look for yourself.  You can access records from your home, at your convenience, 24/7 and that has to account for something. I found several records that I needed had same names but in the index, they do you give you a date.  Try to match the date with the record that you might need and go from there.  I did get two that were not related to what I needed, but I took an educated guess .  Then I look at it as well, at least I know those two records are not what I am looking for.  It is so easy to put money into your account via the credit card.  Then just start searching and see what happens.  You have 6 months to go back and look at the record once you pay for it.  I always print them out as I pay for them but in case I loose that info, I have 6 months to look at it again without an additional charge.  If you look back at the same record twice, it always tells you how much time you have left so it really is a neat deal.  Hope I've answered your questions.  I highly recommend this site. Merry Christmas, Nancy PS.  Wouldn't the census records help to give the year of immigration?  That would help to narrow the time frame down a little bit.  You sort of have to play detective along with deciphering the handwriting :o) Support Our Troops God Bless America Has anyone used the website organized by the Irish Family History  Foundation, http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/?  They've just added some  records to their online database, and I'd like to view some of them,  but at €5.00 per record, that can get pretty expensive pretty quick,  esp if the records don't contain the info I'm hoping for.  So, if you  have paid to view records at that site, esp from Co. Cork, I have a  couple of questions for you. 1. Does the birth record give the full name of each parent (including  the mother's maiden name)?  What other info does it give? 2. Does the marriage record give the names of the bride and groom's  parents?  Does it give the town where the bride and groom are from?    Any other info? Thank you so much, Merry Christmas! Carol Hokana Boston (now researching HALLORAN, O'CONNELL, and HIGGINS in Co. Cork) P.S.  Their website is changing from http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/ to http://www.RootsIreland.ie  

Thanks to Nora, Marian, Janet, Cathy & Deb for your help with this. George

Here is a site where you can make your own family trees for printing out to give to family member or to keep yourself. http://genealogy.about.com/od/free_charts/ig/genealogy_charts/family_tree.htm Could make nice last minute Christmas gifts for those you want to give something to but don't necessarily have them on your gift list. I hope all on these lists have a wonderful Christmas and a happy healthy New Year. Take care, Pat, your list admin -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

Yes, I realize that but I wanted the poster to clarify because normally a county in Ireland is not called Waterford County, it is called County Waterford. Pat- It would have to be the one in Ireland if it's a county. Waterford, > NY is actually in Saratoga County. > We don't have a Waterford County. Virginia H. (in Saratoga > Co.) > > BTW I am a transplanted New Yorker. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

Pat- It would have to be the one in Ireland if it's a county. Waterford, NY is actually in Saratoga County. We don't have a Waterford County. Virginia H. (in Saratoga Co.)

Were they from Waterford County in New York State or County Waterford in Ireland? It makes a big difference as you can imagine as to your course for searching up records. If you already have the church where they were married, I would try to get the marriage record from the church to find parents names and then use the censuses to track them backward. I needed a baptism record from New Rochelle NY so my son could apply for dual citizenship with Ireland and all I had to do is call the rectory and the record was sent without charge. >From what she said I she thought they had come to Massachusetts from New > York and her birth record says both were from Waterford County. The 1910 > census says they had been married for 8 years, or 1902, which seems about > right as my grandmother was born 1903 (it also said she was 5 and she was 7 > so usual variances in census info). > > I looked on the New York German site and they do have an Ellen Morrissey > marrying a James J. Lenihan in 1899- possible misspelling I guess. It may > be them but, unfortunately, I can't use it until I have searched and found > no other record for them. With the link you provided I can now start to > search the individual churches and see what I find. > > Do you have any other suggestions for me? I don't know their parents names > at this point. Just that they were from Waterford. > > -- Pat Connors, Sacramento CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

Oddly, a map shows 344 E. 58th Street as being between 1st Ave. & 2nd Ave. Maybe this is the nearest church (below). With only a school address, I suppose that the church's is the same. Or... look at the list of old churches here (posted by Pat Connors, of course). http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nynewyo2/RCchurchregisters.htm Blocks away, but St. Patrick's Cathedral is also a possibility, at 5th & Madison Aves. between 50th & 51st St. -- if they liked to walk. Janet L. 12. St. John the Evangelist, 1840 School: 56th & 1st Ave, organ 1908 Registers: Baptisms: 1840-79 (located @ rectory of St Patrick's Cathedral) Baptism Cards: 1868- Confirmations: 1894- Marriages: 1840-79 (located @ rectory of St Patrick's Cathedral) Marriages: 1880- Death Cards: 1868- Deaths: 1912- > 1. Catholic Church on or near East 58th street Manhattan > (Ann & George Ryan) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:41:08 -0000 > Hi. An ancestor of my wife died at his home at 344 East 58th Street, > Manhattan, on August 7th 1911. His name was Patrick Goodman, and I'm > hoping to find out where his funeral mass might have taken place. From his > address would anyone know the parish/church that he would most likely have > been attached to? > Thanks, > George Ryan

Dear George, You could try using this site to locate an obituary in a local paper: http://fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html The site is a bit slow, but it indexes some great papers. I entered “Patrick Goodman” 1911 as search terms: You might be interested in seeing the 11th item, #1363609 from the NY Evening Telegram: 16 Aug 1911: right column. Best wishes, Cathy --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Janet Lyons <lyonsjanet@ImOnMail.com> wrote: From: Janet Lyons <lyonsjanet@ImOnMail.com> Subject: [NY-IRISH] Catholic Church on or near East 58th street To: ny-irish@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 7:13 PM Oddly, a map shows 344 E. 58th Street as being between 1st Ave. & 2nd Ave. Maybe this is the nearest church (below).  With only a school address, I suppose that the church's is the same. Or... look at the list of old churches here (posted by Pat Connors, of course). http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nynewyo2/RCchurchregisters.htm Blocks away, but St. Patrick's Cathedral is also a possibility, at 5th & Madison Aves. between 50th & 51st St. -- if they liked to walk. Janet L. 12.  St. John the Evangelist, 1840 School:  56th & 1st Ave, organ 1908 Registers: Baptisms:  1840-79 (located @ rectory of St Patrick's Cathedral) Baptism Cards:  1868- Confirmations:  1894- Marriages:  1840-79 (located @ rectory of St Patrick's Cathedral) Marriages:  1880- Death Cards:  1868- Deaths:  1912- >   1. Catholic Church on or near East 58th street Manhattan >      (Ann & George Ryan) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:41:08 -0000 > Hi. An ancestor of my wife died at his home at 344 East 58th Street, > Manhattan, on August 7th 1911. His name was Patrick Goodman, and I'm > hoping to find out where his funeral mass might have taken place. From his > address would anyone know the parish/church that he would most likely have > been attached to? > Thanks, > George Ryan

Try this one: http://www.nycago.org/Organs/NYC/html/StJohnEvRC.html St. John the Evangelist Roman Catholic Church, First Avenue at East 55th Street 348 E. 55th St. The link above refers to the church's organ but gives a little interesting history. A Google search might turn up more information. Good luck to you and Merry Christmas! Marian McCabe Fredericksburg, Virginia > From: ny-irish-request@rootsweb.com > Subject: NY-IRISH Digest, Vol 4, Issue 219 > To: ny-irish@rootsweb.com > Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 01:00:35 -0700 > > > > ====NY-Irish Mailing List==== > Don't forget to check out the NY-Irish mailing list website. Also, check/add your NY-Irish surnames on the Surname Registry: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/NYIrishList/ > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Catholic Church on or near East 58th street Manhattan > (Ann & George Ryan) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:41:08 -0000 > From: "Ann & George Ryan" <glryan@eircom.net> > Subject: [NY-IRISH] Catholic Church on or near East 58th street > Manhattan > To: <ny-irish@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <192BA3011F6942468089E0E26B40D94A@Ryan> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi. An ancestor of my wife died at his home at 344 East 58th Street, Manhattan, on August 7th 1911. His name was Patrick Goodman, and I'm hoping to find out where his funeral mass might have taken place. From his address would anyone know the parish/church that he would most likely have been attached to? > > Thanks, > > George Ryan > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the NY-IRISH list administrator, send an email to > NY-IRISH-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the NY-IRISH mailing list, send an email to NY-IRISH@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NY-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of NY-IRISH Digest, Vol 4, Issue 219 > **************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

St. John's was an Irish Catholic church. Moved from the block next to St. Patrick's in the 1880s to the present location. ________________________________ From: ny-irish-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of irishcolleen45@aol.com Sent: Sun 12/20/2009 10:07 AM To: ny-irish@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NY-IRISH] Catholic Church on or near East 58th street Manhattan Hi George, Once I got the zip code I went to MassTimes.org and found that St John The Evangelist Parish which was founded in 1840 might be the closest church. 348 E. 55th St. New York, NY 10022 Phone: (212) 753-8418 Fax: (212) 826-1848 You might want to check the other nearby churches if that's not the one. Most churches during that time were ethnic. So if he was Irish, he may have gone elsewhere even St. Patrick's Cathedral on Fifth Ave and 50th. Nora In a message dated 12/20/2009 3:06:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, _glryan@eircom.net_ (mailto:glryan@eircom.net) writes: Hi. An ancestor of my wife died at his home at 344 East 58th Street, Manhattan, on August 7th 1911. His name was Patrick Goodman, and I'm hoping to find out where his funeral mass might have taken place. From his address would anyone know the parish/church that he would most likely have been attached to? Thanks, George Ryan ====NY-Irish Mailing List==== Don't forget to check out the NY-Irish mailing list website. Also, check/add your NY-Irish surnames on the Surname Registry: http://www.connorsgenealogy.com/NYIrishList/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NY-IRISH-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

An ancestor of my wife died at his home at 344 East 58th Street, Manhattan, on August 7th 1911. His name was Patrick Goodman, and I'm hoping to find out where his funeral mass might have taken place. From his address would anyone know the parish/church that he would most likely have been attached to? Thanks, George Ryan

Hi George, Once I got the zip code I went to MassTimes.org and found that St John The Evangelist Parish which was founded in 1840 might be the closest church. 348 E. 55th St. New York, NY 10022 Phone: (212) 753-8418 Fax: (212) 826-1848 You might want to check the other nearby churches if that's not the one. Most churches during that time were ethnic. So if he was Irish, he may have gone elsewhere even St. Patrick's Cathedral on Fifth Ave and 50th. Nora In a message dated 12/20/2009 3:06:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, _glryan@eircom.net_ (mailto:glryan@eircom.net) writes: Hi. An ancestor of my wife died at his home at 344 East 58th Street, Manhattan, on August 7th 1911. His name was Patrick Goodman, and I'm hoping to find out where his funeral mass might have taken place. From his address would anyone know the parish/church that he would most likely have been attached to? Thanks, George Ryan