Hey Toni I'm wondering if the All-Mighty is enjoying this thread (about cousins) and is having trouble controlling himself? Richard Richard Hardwick (Researching direct lines in Nova Scotia and New England - HARDWICK, ARMSTRONG, BARTEAUX, SPURR, HENDERSON, BLACKMAR, MARSH) RiHardwick@comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trena" <amheater@cogeco.ca> To: <NOVA-SCOTIA@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [NS-L] Question on "half cousins" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jared Handspicker" > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:50 AM > Subject: [NS-L] Question on "half cousins" > > >> Given the discussion on "How I'm related to myself", I've noticed several >> mentions of "half cousins". What, exactly IS a "half cousin?" I've >> heard >> the term before, but find no such relationships when running the "Compute >> Relationship" report with my software. Is it anything similar to a >> half-sibling? As in sharing one parent, but not both? That's the only >> explanation I can think of, at this point. That said, I'd THINK it would >> mean half cousins share a single grandparent, and half second cousins >> would share only one great-grandparent. Am I even close? > > All in Scotland ... > I have many _ first _ half-cousins, etc. My maternal grandmother died in > 1933 after giving birth to 6 children. My mother is #4. Grandfather > re-married. Second wife died 12 days after birthing their only child. A > daughter, who is now married with children and grandchildren. Grandfather > married a 3rd time, with 5 children born to that marriage ... 2 of them > long > after my birth. All of those children are now married with children and > grandchildren. > > So the children born to my Mum's step-mothers and her father are > half-brothers/sisters to her and the other 5 born to her mother. They are > also my half-uncles and half-aunts. Their children are my half-cousins > and > their grandchildren are my half-first cousins once removed. Their > grandchildren are half-2nd cousins to my children. Degree of cousinship > remains the same as normal, except "half-" is added. (Have several > 'step-first cousins too.) > > [As I began to type this, we started to have a terrible thunder & > lightening > storm begin, with heavy hailstorm. Back garden's grass is all white as it > is covered in hailstones! Thought my living room (lounge) windows were > going to break, it was pounding at them so hard, making a horrible racket. > Holy cow! Has been a long time since anything like this has happened here > (north side of eastern end of L. Ontario) ... hope it doesn't spawn any > tornados!!] > > Toni ~ Ontario > > ---------------------------------------- > Basic List Commands: > > 1. To post to the list > Send a message to: > NOVA-SCOTIA-L@rootsweb.com > > 2. How to unsubscribe > a. List mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-L- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > b. Digest mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-D- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > 3. How to subscribe > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > 4. How to change to Digest mode > a. Unsubscribe from List mode (2.a. above) > b. Subscribe to Digest mode > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-D-request@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NOVA-SCOTIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, and the same could be said for the sugar bags, although they tended to be a little smaller in size. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lmarshall" <l.marshall@ns.sympatico.ca> To: "Nova Scotia List" <NOVA-SCOTIA@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:43 AM Subject: [NS-L] THE FLOUR SACK---OFF TOPIC BUT--- >A friend sent this so thought I would share--- > THE FLOUR SACK > > IN THAT LONG AGO TIME WHEN THINGS WERE SAVED, WHEN ROADS WERE GRAVELED AND > BARRELS WERE STAVED, > WHEN WORN-OUT CLOTHING WAS USED AS RAGS, AND THERE WERE NO PLASTIC WRAPS > OR BAGS, > AND THE WELL AND THE PUMP WERE WAY OUT BACK, A VERSATILE ITEM WAS THE > FLOUR SACK. > > PILLSBURY'S BEST, MOTHER'S, AND GOLD MEDAL, TOO STAMPED THEIR NAMES > PROUDLY IN PURPLE AND BLUE. > THE STRING SEWN ON TOP WAS PULLED AND KEPT; THE FLOUR EMPTIED AND SPILLS > WERE SWEPT. > THE BAG WAS FOLDED AND STORED IN A SACK, THAT DURABLE, PRACTICAL FLOUR > SACK. > > THE SACK COULD BE FILLED WITH FEATHER AND DOWN, FOR A PILLOW, OR T'WOULD > MAKE A SLEEPING GOWN. > IT COULD CARRY A BOOK AND BE A SCHOOL BAG, OR BECOME A MAIL SACK SLUNG > OVER A NAG. > IT MADE A VERY CONVENIENT PACK, THAT ADAPTABLE COTTON FLOUR SACK. > > BLEACHED AND SEWN, IT WAS DUTIFULLY WORN AS BIBS, DIAPERS, OR KERCHIEF > ADORNED. > IT WAS MADE INTO SKIRTS, BLOUSES AND SLIPS AND MOM BRAIDED RUGS FROM ONE > HUNDRED STRIPS. > SHE MADE RUFFLED CURTAINS FOR THE HOUSE OR SHACK, FROM THAT HUMBLE BUT > TREASURED FLOUR SACK! > > AS A STRAINER FOR MILK OR APPLE JUICE, TO WAVE MEN IN WAS A VERY GOOD USE, > AS A SLING FOR A SPRAINED WRIST OR A BREAK, TO HELP MOTHER ROLL UP A JELLY > CAKE, > AS A WINDOW SHADE OR TO STUFF A CRACK, WE USED A STURDY, COMMON FLOUR > SACK! > > AS DISH TOWELS, EMBROIDERED OR NOT, THEY COVERED UP DOUGH, HELPED PASS > PANS SO HOT, > TIED UP DISHES FOR NEIGHBORS IN NEED, AND FOR MEN OUT IN THE FIELD TO > SEED. > THEY DRIED DISHES FROM PAN, NOT RACK THAT ABSORBENT, HANDY FLOUR SACK! > > WE POLISHED AND CLEANED STOVE AND TABLE, SCOURED AND SCRUBBED FROM CELLAR > TO GABLE, > WE DUSTED THE BUREAU AND OAK BED POST, MADE COSTUMES FOR OCTOBER (A SCARY > GHOST) > AND A PARACHUTE FOR A CAT NAMED JACK. FROM THAT LOWLY, USEFUL OLD FLOUR > SACK! > > SO NOW MY FRIENDS, WHEN THEY ASK YOU AS CURIOUS YOUNGSTERS OFTEN DO, > "BEFORE PLASTIC WRAP, ELMER'S GLUE AND PAPER TOWELS, WHAT DID YOU DO?" > TELL THEM LOUDLY AND YOUR PRIDE DON'T LACK, "GRANDMOTHER HAD THAT > WONDERFUL FLOUR SACK!" > > Submitted by Erven Cestnick, Smiths Cove > ---------------------------------------- > Basic List Commands: > > 1. To post to the list > Send a message to: > NOVA-SCOTIA-L@rootsweb.com > > 2. How to unsubscribe > a. List mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-L- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > b. Digest mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-D- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > 3. How to subscribe > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > 4. How to change to Digest mode > a. Unsubscribe from List mode (2.a. above) > b. Subscribe to Digest mode > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-D-request@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NOVA-SCOTIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Charlotte, Well, in this case, your Aunt became your step-mother, unless you were adopted, but that would still be her biological connection. Your cousin became your step-sister, no matter if you were adopted by your aunt or not. The question is, did you end up marrying your step-mother's ex-husband's nephew? Can't imagine how your children would be related to one another, beyond being siblings... surely they'd be half-cousins at SOME level! :-) Jared > My mother died when I was only three years old, my mother's brother's > wife > who was my Aunt came to take care of myself and my two sisters. She > brought my > cousin who was her daughter with her. Later she divorced her husband and > married my father. Now she went from my Aunt to being my mother and my > cousin > went from being my cousin to being my sister (we drove the teachers in > school > nuts because we were close in age and they couldn't figure out how we > could be > sisters when she was born in Oct and I was born the following April and I > wasn't premature and we were not twins) anyway it was great fun. > > Charlotte > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. > ---------------------------------------- > Basic List Commands: > > 1. To post to the list > Send a message to: > NOVA-SCOTIA-L@rootsweb.com > > 2. How to unsubscribe > a. List mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-L- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > b. Digest mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-D- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > 3. How to subscribe > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > 4. How to change to Digest mode > a. Unsubscribe from List mode (2.a. above) > b. Subscribe to Digest mode > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-D-request@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NOVA-SCOTIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------ Jared "Jed" Handspicker jedh@jedh.com

My mother died when I was only three years old, my mother's brother's wife who was my Aunt came to take care of myself and my two sisters. She brought my cousin who was her daughter with her. Later she divorced her husband and married my father. Now she went from my Aunt to being my mother and my cousin went from being my cousin to being my sister (we drove the teachers in school nuts because we were close in age and they couldn't figure out how we could be sisters when she was born in Oct and I was born the following April and I wasn't premature and we were not twins) anyway it was great fun. Charlotte ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

A friend sent this so thought I would share--- THE FLOUR SACK IN THAT LONG AGO TIME WHEN THINGS WERE SAVED, WHEN ROADS WERE GRAVELED AND BARRELS WERE STAVED, WHEN WORN-OUT CLOTHING WAS USED AS RAGS, AND THERE WERE NO PLASTIC WRAPS OR BAGS, AND THE WELL AND THE PUMP WERE WAY OUT BACK, A VERSATILE ITEM WAS THE FLOUR SACK. PILLSBURY'S BEST, MOTHER'S, AND GOLD MEDAL, TOO STAMPED THEIR NAMES PROUDLY IN PURPLE AND BLUE. THE STRING SEWN ON TOP WAS PULLED AND KEPT; THE FLOUR EMPTIED AND SPILLS WERE SWEPT. THE BAG WAS FOLDED AND STORED IN A SACK, THAT DURABLE, PRACTICAL FLOUR SACK. THE SACK COULD BE FILLED WITH FEATHER AND DOWN, FOR A PILLOW, OR T'WOULD MAKE A SLEEPING GOWN. IT COULD CARRY A BOOK AND BE A SCHOOL BAG, OR BECOME A MAIL SACK SLUNG OVER A NAG. IT MADE A VERY CONVENIENT PACK, THAT ADAPTABLE COTTON FLOUR SACK. BLEACHED AND SEWN, IT WAS DUTIFULLY WORN AS BIBS, DIAPERS, OR KERCHIEF ADORNED. IT WAS MADE INTO SKIRTS, BLOUSES AND SLIPS AND MOM BRAIDED RUGS FROM ONE HUNDRED STRIPS. SHE MADE RUFFLED CURTAINS FOR THE HOUSE OR SHACK, FROM THAT HUMBLE BUT TREASURED FLOUR SACK! AS A STRAINER FOR MILK OR APPLE JUICE, TO WAVE MEN IN WAS A VERY GOOD USE, AS A SLING FOR A SPRAINED WRIST OR A BREAK, TO HELP MOTHER ROLL UP A JELLY CAKE, AS A WINDOW SHADE OR TO STUFF A CRACK, WE USED A STURDY, COMMON FLOUR SACK! AS DISH TOWELS, EMBROIDERED OR NOT, THEY COVERED UP DOUGH, HELPED PASS PANS SO HOT, TIED UP DISHES FOR NEIGHBORS IN NEED, AND FOR MEN OUT IN THE FIELD TO SEED. THEY DRIED DISHES FROM PAN, NOT RACK THAT ABSORBENT, HANDY FLOUR SACK! WE POLISHED AND CLEANED STOVE AND TABLE, SCOURED AND SCRUBBED FROM CELLAR TO GABLE, WE DUSTED THE BUREAU AND OAK BED POST, MADE COSTUMES FOR OCTOBER (A SCARY GHOST) AND A PARACHUTE FOR A CAT NAMED JACK. FROM THAT LOWLY, USEFUL OLD FLOUR SACK! SO NOW MY FRIENDS, WHEN THEY ASK YOU AS CURIOUS YOUNGSTERS OFTEN DO, "BEFORE PLASTIC WRAP, ELMER'S GLUE AND PAPER TOWELS, WHAT DID YOU DO?" TELL THEM LOUDLY AND YOUR PRIDE DON'T LACK, "GRANDMOTHER HAD THAT WONDERFUL FLOUR SACK!" Submitted by Erven Cestnick, Smiths Cove

Richard, Many thanks... so I wasn't TOO far off! In searching online, I found a couple of hints, but nothing firm. That said, I DID find reference to "Double Cousins" during that search, which occur when two brothers marry two sisters. So, you can have first cousins that are first cousins via both parents, hence "double cousins." I can't even count the number of times I've had to explain how "removed" works, to those who have asked "How are WE related?". Now, I guess I'll have more relational information to pass on. I've also found, in most cases, the "half" is not always computed, as by SOME definitions, cousins share "a common grandparent". Hence the reason why half cousins share the same "removed" definitions as cousins. In that respect, it would appear that the term is a subset of the cousin relationship factors. I've even heard, in RARE cases, of folks referencing maternal or patriarchal cousins, indicating that specific relationship is through a mother's or father's ancestry. I imagine, if ALL the various labels were attached, you COULD end up with terms like "half patriarchal third cousins, twice removed, on my mother's side". *chuckle* (Just don't ask me to explain THAT relationship!) What's interesting to note is, if one has ancestors traced back to early settlement days, either in New England, or Canada, or even Australia and other "Newer World" countries, if you run across someone else with ancestors in that same area, chances are incredibly high that you share some kind of cousin relationship. Even if you don't yet have it fully traced and documented. There are only two or three family names (surnames) in early Digby County, Nova Scotia that I've not yet found a connection to in my Handspiker genealogy (at least from all the names listed for that area in 1838 Census). I suspect, either I just haven't FOUND those connections, yet, or that family sort of "died off" or "moved off" not long after the name appeared in that particular record. Cheers, Jed > Hi Jed > > This original discussion sure has taken a turn, and welcomed by me in the > fact it is a learning experience. > > I am certainly no expert in this matter, but I believe 1/2 cousins develop > from an ancestor marrying twice. For example, John Parker and I are 1/2 > 5th > BARTEAUX cousins (once removed) owing to John's 4th great grandfather (and > my 5th great grandfather,) Philip BARTEAUX, marrying twice. I descend > from > one of the marriages of Philip's wives and John descend from the other > wife. > Or so at least my FTM tells me in its "relationship calculation" feature. > > Richard > > Richard Hardwick > (Researching direct lines in Nova Scotia and New England - HARDWICK, > ARMSTRONG, BARTEAUX, SPURR, HENDERSON, BLACKMAR, MARSH) > RiHardwick@comcast.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jared Handspicker" <jedh@jedh.com> > To: <NOVA-SCOTIA@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:50 AM > Subject: [NS-L] Question on "half cousins" > > >> Given the discussion on "How I'm related to myself", I've noticed >> several >> mentions of "half cousins". What, exactly IS a "half cousin?" I've >> heard >> the term before, but find no such relationships when running the >> "Compute >> Relationship" report with my software. Is it anything similar to a >> half-sibling? As in sharing one parent, but not both? That's the only >> explanation I can think of, at this point. That said, I'd THINK it >> would >> mean half cousins share a single grandparent, and half second cousins >> would share only one great-grandparent. Am I even close? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jared >> >> ------------------------ >> Jared "Jed" Handspicker >> jedh@jedh.com >> >> >> ---------------------------------------- >> Basic List Commands: >> >> 1. To post to the list >> Send a message to: >> NOVA-SCOTIA-L@rootsweb.com >> >> 2. How to unsubscribe >> a. List mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-L- >> request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word >> unsubscribe >> >> b. Digest mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-D- >> request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word >> unsubscribe >> >> 3. How to subscribe >> Send an email containing only the word >> subscribe >> to NOVA-SCOTIA-L-request@rootsweb.com >> >> 4. How to change to Digest mode >> a. Unsubscribe from List mode (2.a. above) >> b. Subscribe to Digest mode >> Send an email containing only the word >> subscribe >> to NOVA-SCOTIA-D-request@rootsweb.com >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NOVA-SCOTIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------ Jared "Jed" Handspicker jedh@jedh.com

Hi Jill, Not to quibble with the substance of your posting, but to avoid possible future confusion, I believe your use of the term "Maestro of Music" as a form of degree or qualification may be a misunderstanding (if indeed that is what you meant.) The term "Maestro" is a form of respect conferred by general consent of the music community to an individual, based on their musical ability. Most frequently used to indicate respect for a conducer (and less frequently to a violin soloist) it is only an unofficial (social) qualification. I have never heard of anyone being granted such a title in the form of a degree in Britain, Canada or the US although it is possible it is used in other music communities. The music degrees issued by universities in the named countries follow the same form as all of the arts degrees, i.e., Bachelor and Master with all the sub classes and specialities as additions and qualifiers. Although rare, it is possible that an individual be granted an honorary degree in recognition of their innate musicality and work in a musical field. A rare honour indeed but may be the case here since it is doubtful that Eric would be able to find the time required to work his way through a university music degree course. I stand to be corrected on this but, I believe the term Maestro is only used to describe musicians so it would be fine to simply describe Eric as a Maestro without the "of music" appellation which raise connotations of a formal degree. Otherwise, you would need to discover his most senior formal degree and quote that to give him his full title. Not wishing to be stuffy or officious. Just hoping to help you avoid future misunderstanding over a rather specialist form of address. :-) Malcolm Archive CD Books Canada Inc. President: Malcolm Moody PO Box 11 Manotick Ontario, K4M 1A2 Canada. (613) 692-2667 WEB SITE: http://www.ArchiveCDBooks.ca > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 21:24:18 +0100 > From: "jwyze1@gmail.com" <jwyze1@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [NS-L] Eric ARMSTRONG - Stellarton, Pictou - 1912-1951 > To: "Nova scotia" <NOVA-SCOTIA-L@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <d9bccb8b0706201324w7a48f73pe4bdf432e74fa0ac@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > To everyone who thankfully responded to my original request for > information about Eric Armstrong. > > You might be interested to know that today I received the obituary for > Eric > Armstrong which was very interesting and confirmed that - as well as > being a > coal miner - Eric was also a musician. > > My mother had always told me that Eric was a Maestro of Music and had > diplomas and certificates for his musical achievements. Luckily, I > have a > photograph of Eric with his violin. > > As Eric was a coal miner and the son of a Seaman, it was difficult to > believe that he really was an accomplished music and violin teacher, as > stated on his marriage certificate to his first wife. However, the > obituary > stated that Eric was an authority on music and he had composed several > songs > as well as writing frequent articles for newspapers and magazines. > > The obituary also confirmed that he was survived by a son and a > daughter. > > On June 27th I am having a letter published with a photograph of Eric > in the > Advocate. > > Without all of your help I may never have discovered any of this and I > am > very grateful to you all. Thanks again. > > Kind regards, Jill Wiseman

Given the discussion on "How I'm related to myself", I've noticed several mentions of "half cousins". What, exactly IS a "half cousin?" I've heard the term before, but find no such relationships when running the "Compute Relationship" report with my software. Is it anything similar to a half-sibling? As in sharing one parent, but not both? That's the only explanation I can think of, at this point. That said, I'd THINK it would mean half cousins share a single grandparent, and half second cousins would share only one great-grandparent. Am I even close? Cheers, Jared ------------------------ Jared "Jed" Handspicker jedh@jedh.com

I can give you the explanation. I had two instances where ancestors married first cousins and also multiple married due to early deaths. That throws a "monkey wrench" into the mix. I find myself related in these ways. 5th cousin 8th cousin 8th cousin once removed 10th cousin once removed half 11th cousin half 12th cousin Harold And my four sons are related to me as distant cousins. ---- San-Dee Lyons <snklyons@shaw.ca> wrote: > It is a result of families inter-marrying over the years. My husband is > related to himself though twenty different relationships. > 1. Self > 2. 4th cousin > 3. 5th cousin > 4. 5th cousin once removed > 5. 6th cousin > 6. 6th cousin once removed > 7. Half 6th cousin once removed > 8. 6th cousin twice removed > 9. Half 6th cousin twice removed > 10. 7th cousin once removed > 11. Half 6th cousin three times removed > 12. 8th cousin > 13. 7th cousin twice removed > 14. 8th cousin twice removed > 15. 8th cousin twice removed > 16. 9th cousin > 17. 9th cousin once removed > 18. 8th cousin three times removed > 19. 9th cousin twice removed > 20. 10th cousin > > Even his parents are related about 22 different ways - none closer than a > third cousin though. > > Cheers, > San-Dee Lyons > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Hardwick" <RiHardwick@comcast.net> > To: "NS ednet list" <NSroots@ednet.ns.ca>; "NOVA-SCOTIA" > <NOVA-SCOTIA@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 4:02 PM > Subject: [nsroots] Related to myself - how? > > > > Hello all > > > > I just entered a bunch of new names in my FTM notes and as I always do, > when I > > finish a new group of names, I always check to see how people are related > to > > each other via the "Kinship Report." > > > > Well, this time, I see that I'm related to "self" and I am my own "8th > cousin" > > as well as my own "9th cousin." I'm not sure this was result of the entry > of > > this last group of names or it's been around for awhile, but I'm stumped. > > > > I know 2 people can be related to each other in a bunch of different ways > > (e.g. 4th cousin or 5th cousin, 1 x removed) depending on ancestors but > have > > you ever found that you are a cousin to yourself? > > > > Blowing my mind. Any explanations? > > > > Richard Hardwick > > > > (Researching direct lines in Nova Scotia and New England - HARDWICK, > > ARMSTRONG, BARTEAUX, SPURR, HENDERSON, BLACKMAR, MARSH) > > RiHardwick@comcast.net > > ___________________________________________ > > nsroots mailing list > > nsroots@ednet.ns.ca > > http://mailman.ednet.ns.ca/cgi-bin/listinfo/nsroots > > ---------------------------------------- > Basic List Commands: > > 1. To post to the list > Send a message to: > NOVA-SCOTIA-L@rootsweb.com > > 2. How to unsubscribe > a. List mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-L- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > b. Digest mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-D- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > 3. How to subscribe > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > 4. How to change to Digest mode > a. Unsubscribe from List mode (2.a. above) > b. Subscribe to Digest mode > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-D-request@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOVA-SCOTIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Jed I think your explanation in your last paragraph fits me to a "T" as far as being my own 8th or 9th cousin. And it's just from a lack of studying these folks in more detail that prevents me from determining how I relate to myself as I do. I'm a product of "double cousins" as well. Or at least through marriage. My wife's mother and my wife's aunt (both sisters) married brothers and each marriage produced offspring. These offspring (1st cousins) are considered "double cousins" as well. Now what would we call the offspring if the parent sisters were twins and the parent brothers were twins? Thanks for your info Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jared Handspicker" <jedh@jedh.com> To: <nova-scotia@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [NS-L] Question on "half cousins" > Richard, > > Many thanks... so I wasn't TOO far off! In searching online, I found a > couple of hints, but nothing firm. That said, I DID find reference to > "Double Cousins" during that search, which occur when two brothers marry > two sisters. So, you can have first cousins that are first cousins via > both parents, hence "double cousins." > > I can't even count the number of times I've had to explain how "removed" > works, to those who have asked "How are WE related?". Now, I guess I'll > have more relational information to pass on. I've also found, in most > cases, the "half" is not always computed, as by SOME definitions, cousins > share "a common grandparent". Hence the reason why half cousins share the > same "removed" definitions as cousins. In that respect, it would appear > that the term is a subset of the cousin relationship factors. I've even > heard, in RARE cases, of folks referencing maternal or patriarchal > cousins, indicating that specific relationship is through a mother's or > father's ancestry. I imagine, if ALL the various labels were attached, > you COULD end up with terms like "half patriarchal third cousins, twice > removed, on my mother's side". *chuckle* (Just don't ask me to explain > THAT relationship!) > > What's interesting to note is, if one has ancestors traced back to early > settlement days, either in New England, or Canada, or even Australia and > other "Newer World" countries, if you run across someone else with > ancestors in that same area, chances are incredibly high that you share > some kind of cousin relationship. Even if you don't yet have it fully > traced and documented. There are only two or three family names > (surnames) in early Digby County, Nova Scotia that I've not yet found a > connection to in my Handspiker genealogy (at least from all the names > listed for that area in 1838 Census). I suspect, either I just haven't > FOUND those connections, yet, or that family sort of "died off" or "moved > off" not long after the name appeared in that particular record. > > Cheers, > > Jed > >> Hi Jed >> >> This original discussion sure has taken a turn, and welcomed by me in the >> fact it is a learning experience. >> >> I am certainly no expert in this matter, but I believe 1/2 cousins >> develop >> from an ancestor marrying twice. For example, John Parker and I are 1/2 >> 5th >> BARTEAUX cousins (once removed) owing to John's 4th great grandfather >> (and >> my 5th great grandfather,) Philip BARTEAUX, marrying twice. I descend >> from >> one of the marriages of Philip's wives and John descend from the other >> wife. >> Or so at least my FTM tells me in its "relationship calculation" feature. >> >> Richard >> >> Richard Hardwick >> (Researching direct lines in Nova Scotia and New England - HARDWICK, >> ARMSTRONG, BARTEAUX, SPURR, HENDERSON, BLACKMAR, MARSH) >> RiHardwick@comcast.net >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jared Handspicker" <jedh@jedh.com> >> To: <NOVA-SCOTIA@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:50 AM >> Subject: [NS-L] Question on "half cousins" >> >> >>> Given the discussion on "How I'm related to myself", I've noticed >>> several >>> mentions of "half cousins". What, exactly IS a "half cousin?" I've >>> heard >>> the term before, but find no such relationships when running the >>> "Compute >>> Relationship" report with my software. Is it anything similar to a >>> half-sibling? As in sharing one parent, but not both? That's the only >>> explanation I can think of, at this point. That said, I'd THINK it >>> would >>> mean half cousins share a single grandparent, and half second cousins >>> would share only one great-grandparent. Am I even close? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Jared >>> >>> ------------------------ >>> Jared "Jed" Handspicker >>> jedh@jedh.com >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------- >>> Basic List Commands: >>> >>> 1. To post to the list >>> Send a message to: >>> NOVA-SCOTIA-L@rootsweb.com >>> >>> 2. How to unsubscribe >>> a. List mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-L- >>> request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word >>> unsubscribe >>> >>> b. Digest mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-D- >>> request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word >>> unsubscribe >>> >>> 3. How to subscribe >>> Send an email containing only the word >>> subscribe >>> to NOVA-SCOTIA-L-request@rootsweb.com >>> >>> 4. How to change to Digest mode >>> a. Unsubscribe from List mode (2.a. above) >>> b. Subscribe to Digest mode >>> Send an email containing only the word >>> subscribe >>> to NOVA-SCOTIA-D-request@rootsweb.com >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> NOVA-SCOTIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------ > Jared "Jed" Handspicker > jedh@jedh.com > > > ---------------------------------------- > Basic List Commands: > > 1. To post to the list > Send a message to: > NOVA-SCOTIA-L@rootsweb.com > > 2. How to unsubscribe > a. List mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-L- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > b. Digest mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-D- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > 3. How to subscribe > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > 4. How to change to Digest mode > a. Unsubscribe from List mode (2.a. above) > b. Subscribe to Digest mode > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-D-request@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NOVA-SCOTIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello all again I have received many a favorable response from several listers (on-list) and one not so happy response (off-list) from a fellow that evidently doesn't like to participate in discussions such as this. I consider this type of question one that is a definite learning experience. I'm hoping most others agree. I really enjoyed all the personal family stories as to how you can be related to yourself as your own cousin. Appreciate your sending along. The one response that sticks in my mind is that if your parents are 3rd cousins to each other (whether known or unknown before marriage) you become a 4th cousin to yourself. Keeping it as simple as that, that makes sense to me. And hilarious, as others point out, you bet!! As Ray Stevens' song points out - "I'm my own Grandpa." And mind boggling as well (that is, for those of us that still maintain some semblance of grey matter up there.) I really have to feel for those folks that have people in their family tree that are their own cousins in up to at least 10 different ways. That must be a nightmare to keep tract of and present to others how that all comes about. Anyway, thanks for a good round of discussion. ************************** And somewhat related to all this discussion, can anyone tell me how to determine "common ancestors" using FTM? I can determine how 2 individuals are related to each other, but finding who their common ancestors are escapes me using FTM. Other than "going up and down" those individual's ancestral trees by "trial and error" and paper and pencil. What am I missing? I realize there are other genealogy programs out there that are more powerful than FTM and can provide this information with the hit of a letter on a keyboard, but can this be done through FTM? I have the most current version of FTM and have scoured it in detail trying to find a clue. *********************** Richard Hardwick (Researching direct lines in Nova Scotia and New England - HARDWICK, ARMSTRONG, BARTEAUX, SPURR, HENDERSON, BLACKMAR, MARSH) RiHardwick@comcast.net

Hi Jed This original discussion sure has taken a turn, and welcomed by me in the fact it is a learning experience. I am certainly no expert in this matter, but I believe 1/2 cousins develop from an ancestor marrying twice. For example, John Parker and I are 1/2 5th BARTEAUX cousins (once removed) owing to John's 4th great grandfather (and my 5th great grandfather,) Philip BARTEAUX, marrying twice. I descend from one of the marriages of Philip's wives and John descend from the other wife. Or so at least my FTM tells me in its "relationship calculation" feature. Richard Richard Hardwick (Researching direct lines in Nova Scotia and New England - HARDWICK, ARMSTRONG, BARTEAUX, SPURR, HENDERSON, BLACKMAR, MARSH) RiHardwick@comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jared Handspicker" <jedh@jedh.com> To: <NOVA-SCOTIA@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:50 AM Subject: [NS-L] Question on "half cousins" > Given the discussion on "How I'm related to myself", I've noticed several > mentions of "half cousins". What, exactly IS a "half cousin?" I've heard > the term before, but find no such relationships when running the "Compute > Relationship" report with my software. Is it anything similar to a > half-sibling? As in sharing one parent, but not both? That's the only > explanation I can think of, at this point. That said, I'd THINK it would > mean half cousins share a single grandparent, and half second cousins > would share only one great-grandparent. Am I even close? > > Cheers, > > Jared > > ------------------------ > Jared "Jed" Handspicker > jedh@jedh.com > > > ---------------------------------------- > Basic List Commands: > > 1. To post to the list > Send a message to: > NOVA-SCOTIA-L@rootsweb.com > > 2. How to unsubscribe > a. List mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-L- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > b. Digest mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-D- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > 3. How to subscribe > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > 4. How to change to Digest mode > a. Unsubscribe from List mode (2.a. above) > b. Subscribe to Digest mode > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-D-request@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NOVA-SCOTIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am my own 4th cousin - my mom & dad were third cousins and didn't know it. Locale: Albert and Westmorland Co.,NB Today's Topics: 1. Re: Eric ARMSTRONG - Stellarton, Pictou - 1912-1951 (jwyze1@gmail.com) 2. Related to myself - how? (Richard Hardwick) 3. Re: Related to myself - how? (Kaari Sullivan) 4. Re: Related to myself - how? (John Cordes) 5. Re: [nsroots] Related to myself - how? (San-Dee Lyons) 6. Re: Related to myself - how? (Diana Lynn Tibert) 7. Re: Related to myself - how? (Richard Hardwick) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ....

This reminds me of that song by Ray Stevens, I'm My Own Grandpa Tab. Diana ------- I'm My Own Grandpa by Ray Stevens Now many, many years ago when I was twenty-three I was married to a widder who was pretty as can be This widder had a grown up daughter who had hair of red My father fell in love with her and soon they too were wed. This made my dad my son-in-law and changed my very life My daughter was my mother for she was my father's wife To complicate the matter even though it brought me joy I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy. My little baby then became a brother-in-law to dad And so became my uncle though it made me very sad For if he was my uncle then that also made him brother Of the widder's grown up daughter who of course was my step-mother. Father's wife then had a son who kept him on the run And he became my grandchild for he was my daughter's son My wife is now my mother's mother and it makes me blue Because although she is my wife, she's my grandmother too. Now if my wife is my grandmother, then I'm her grandchild And every time I think of it, it nearly drives me wild For now I have become the strangest case you ever saw As husband of my grandmother, I am my own grandpa. I'm my own grand-pa. I'm my own grand-pa. It sounds funny I know, but it really is so Oh, I'm my own grand-pa. ----------------- > > This makes me a third cousin to my mother, as > she and I are both children of second cousins in the > same ancestral lineage. And, of course, to myself I am > a third cousin, once removed (3C1R). Thus, when I use > my genealogy software to print out the descendants of > Samuel CHACEY (our common ancestor) I appear twice (and > in different generations)-- once as a descendant of my > grandfather and once in my grandmother's line. What > better proof that I am my own cousin. > > >

To everyone who thankfully responded to my original request for information about Eric Armstrong. You might be interested to know that today I received the obituary for Eric Armstrong which was very interesting and confirmed that - as well as being a coal miner - Eric was also a musician. My mother had always told me that Eric was a Maestro of Music and had diplomas and certificates for his musical achievements. Luckily, I have a photograph of Eric with his violin. As Eric was a coal miner and the son of a Seaman, it was difficult to believe that he really was an accomplished music and violin teacher, as stated on his marriage certificate to his first wife. However, the obituary stated that Eric was an authority on music and he had composed several songs as well as writing frequent articles for newspapers and magazines. The obituary also confirmed that he was survived by a son and a daughter. On June 27th I am having a letter published with a photograph of Eric in the Advocate. Without all of your help I may never have discovered any of this and I am very grateful to you all. Thanks again. Kind regards, Jill Wiseman

Hi Richard, There's quite an interesting site about cousins at http://www.geocities.com/luvacuzn4/index.html Here's an extract from the site: I have always gotten a kick out of telling people that I am a cousin to myself. My maternal grandparents were first cousins once removed -- my grandfather married the daughter of his first cousin. His cousin was 15 years his senior and he was a few years older than my grandmother. In any event, following the above definitions -- second cousins are the children of first cousins -- we can see what may appear to be a contradiction. Because they are both daughters of first cousins, my mother is a second cousin to her own mother. This makes me a third cousin to my mother, as she and I are both children of second cousins in the same ancestral lineage. And, of course, to myself I am a third cousin, once removed (3C1R). Thus, when I use my genealogy software to print out the descendants of Samuel CHACEY (our common ancestor) I appear twice (and in different generations)-- once as a descendant of my grandfather and once in my grandmother's line. What better proof that I am my own cousin. Hope this helps, John On [2007-06-20 at 06:10pm] Richard Hardwick <RiHardwick@comcast.net> wrote: > I just entered a bunch of new names in my FTM notes and as I > always do, when I finish a new group of names, I always > check to see how people are related to each other via the > "Kinship Report." > > Well, this time, I see that I'm related to "self" and I am > my own "8th cousin" as well as my own "9th cousin." I'm not > sure this was result of the entry of this last group of > names or it's been around for awhile, but I'm stumped. > > I know 2 people can be related to each other in a bunch of > different ways (e.g. 4th cousin or 5th cousin, 1 x removed) > depending on ancestors but have you ever found that you are > a cousin to yourself? > > Blowing my mind. Any explanations?

Hi Diana and all Luv it!! I've enjoyed Ray Stevens' songs through the years but didn't know about this particular one. Muriel Davidson also mentioned it, too. Must get it for my music collection to go along with all the books I have in my genealogy collection. So far I have had many a helpful response on list (and one not so helpful, off-list.) I'm sure there will be more responses. But it looks like I'm not all by myself in this boat. Got one reply from a lady that is her own 5th cousin, one time removed and that her ancestors were their own 1st cousins, one time removed. Another reply indicated that the responder's husband was his own cousin in 10 different ways (from 4th through 10th with even being his own 1/2 cousin as well.) She suspects it has to do with intermarriages. Thanks to John for the website he sent me to that has a lot to do about "cousinships." ******************** I use FTM (latest version) but cannot find a simple way to determine the "common ancestors" of 2 particular individuals that happen to be cousins. I use a lot of "trial and error" going both up and down in those particular cousins' ancestries. Lots of paper and pencil, as well. Anyone know of a step (maybe that I am missing) that would determine common ancestors of 2 cousins (via FTM) with the hit of a few letters on the keyboard? Thanks Richard Hardwick (Researching direct lines in Nova Scotia and New England - HARDWICK, ARMSTRONG, BARTEAUX, SPURR, HENDERSON, BLACKMAR, MARSH) RiHardwick@comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Lynn Tibert" <tibert@ns.sympatico.ca> Cc: "NS ednet list" <NSroots@ednet.ns.ca>; "NOVA-SCOTIA" <NOVA-SCOTIA@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [NS-L] Related to myself - how? > This reminds me of that song by Ray Stevens, I'm My Own Grandpa Tab. > > Diana > ------- > I'm My Own Grandpa by Ray Stevens > > Now many, many years ago when I was twenty-three > I was married to a widder who was pretty as can be > This widder had a grown up daughter who had hair of red > My father fell in love with her and soon they too were wed. > > This made my dad my son-in-law and changed my very life > My daughter was my mother for she was my father's wife > To complicate the matter even though it brought me joy > I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy. > > My little baby then became a brother-in-law to dad > And so became my uncle though it made me very sad > For if he was my uncle then that also made him brother > Of the widder's grown up daughter who of course was my step-mother. > > Father's wife then had a son who kept him on the run > And he became my grandchild for he was my daughter's son > My wife is now my mother's mother and it makes me blue > Because although she is my wife, she's my grandmother too. > > Now if my wife is my grandmother, then I'm her grandchild > And every time I think of it, it nearly drives me wild > For now I have become the strangest case you ever saw > As husband of my grandmother, I am my own grandpa. > > I'm my own grand-pa. I'm my own grand-pa. > It sounds funny I know, but it really is so > Oh, I'm my own grand-pa. > > > ----------------- > >> >> This makes me a third cousin to my mother, as >> she and I are both children of second cousins in the >> same ancestral lineage. And, of course, to myself I am >> a third cousin, once removed (3C1R). Thus, when I use >> my genealogy software to print out the descendants of >> Samuel CHACEY (our common ancestor) I appear twice (and >> in different generations)-- once as a descendant of my >> grandfather and once in my grandmother's line. What >> better proof that I am my own cousin. >> >> >> > > ---------------------------------------- > Basic List Commands: > > 1. To post to the list > Send a message to: > NOVA-SCOTIA-L@rootsweb.com > > 2. How to unsubscribe > a. List mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-L- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > b. Digest mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-D- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > 3. How to subscribe > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > 4. How to change to Digest mode > a. Unsubscribe from List mode (2.a. above) > b. Subscribe to Digest mode > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-D-request@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NOVA-SCOTIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Richard, Don't feel bad you're not alone. I'm my own 5th cousin 1x removed. Some of my ancestors were their own 1st cousin 1x removed. Kaari On Jun 20, 2007, at 6:02 PM, Richard Hardwick wrote: > Hello all > > I just entered a bunch of new names in my FTM notes and as I always > do, when I finish a new group of names, I always check to see how > people are related to each other via the "Kinship Report." > > Well, this time, I see that I'm related to "self" and I am my own "8th > cousin" as well as my own "9th cousin." I'm not sure this was result > of the entry of this last group of names or it's been around for > awhile, but I'm stumped. > > I know 2 people can be related to each other in a bunch of different > ways (e.g. 4th cousin or 5th cousin, 1 x removed) depending on > ancestors but have you ever found that you are a cousin to yourself? > > Blowing my mind. Any explanations? > > Richard Hardwick > > (Researching direct lines in Nova Scotia and New England - HARDWICK, > ARMSTRONG, BARTEAUX, SPURR, HENDERSON, BLACKMAR, MARSH) > RiHardwick@comcast.net > ---------------------------------------- > Basic List Commands: > > 1. To post to the list > Send a message to: > NOVA-SCOTIA-L@rootsweb.com > > 2. How to unsubscribe > a. List mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-L- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > b. Digest mode: Send a message to NOVA-SCOTIA-D- > request@rootsweb.com that contains only the word > unsubscribe > > 3. How to subscribe > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-L-request@rootsweb.com > > 4. How to change to Digest mode > a. Unsubscribe from List mode (2.a. above) > b. Subscribe to Digest mode > Send an email containing only the word > subscribe > to NOVA-SCOTIA-D-request@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NOVA-SCOTIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It is a result of families inter-marrying over the years. My husband is related to himself though twenty different relationships. 1. Self 2. 4th cousin 3. 5th cousin 4. 5th cousin once removed 5. 6th cousin 6. 6th cousin once removed 7. Half 6th cousin once removed 8. 6th cousin twice removed 9. Half 6th cousin twice removed 10. 7th cousin once removed 11. Half 6th cousin three times removed 12. 8th cousin 13. 7th cousin twice removed 14. 8th cousin twice removed 15. 8th cousin twice removed 16. 9th cousin 17. 9th cousin once removed 18. 8th cousin three times removed 19. 9th cousin twice removed 20. 10th cousin Even his parents are related about 22 different ways - none closer than a third cousin though. Cheers, San-Dee Lyons ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Hardwick" <RiHardwick@comcast.net> To: "NS ednet list" <NSroots@ednet.ns.ca>; "NOVA-SCOTIA" <NOVA-SCOTIA@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 4:02 PM Subject: [nsroots] Related to myself - how? > Hello all > > I just entered a bunch of new names in my FTM notes and as I always do, when I > finish a new group of names, I always check to see how people are related to > each other via the "Kinship Report." > > Well, this time, I see that I'm related to "self" and I am my own "8th cousin" > as well as my own "9th cousin." I'm not sure this was result of the entry of > this last group of names or it's been around for awhile, but I'm stumped. > > I know 2 people can be related to each other in a bunch of different ways > (e.g. 4th cousin or 5th cousin, 1 x removed) depending on ancestors but have > you ever found that you are a cousin to yourself? > > Blowing my mind. Any explanations? > > Richard Hardwick > > (Researching direct lines in Nova Scotia and New England - HARDWICK, > ARMSTRONG, BARTEAUX, SPURR, HENDERSON, BLACKMAR, MARSH) > RiHardwick@comcast.net > ___________________________________________ > nsroots mailing list > nsroots@ednet.ns.ca > http://mailman.ednet.ns.ca/cgi-bin/listinfo/nsroots

Hello all I just entered a bunch of new names in my FTM notes and as I always do, when I finish a new group of names, I always check to see how people are related to each other via the "Kinship Report." Well, this time, I see that I'm related to "self" and I am my own "8th cousin" as well as my own "9th cousin." I'm not sure this was result of the entry of this last group of names or it's been around for awhile, but I'm stumped. I know 2 people can be related to each other in a bunch of different ways (e.g. 4th cousin or 5th cousin, 1 x removed) depending on ancestors but have you ever found that you are a cousin to yourself? Blowing my mind. Any explanations? Richard Hardwick (Researching direct lines in Nova Scotia and New England - HARDWICK, ARMSTRONG, BARTEAUX, SPURR, HENDERSON, BLACKMAR, MARSH) RiHardwick@comcast.net