Bill early 20th Century Records of Marriages for tne Northumberland Fusiliers exist at the National Archives as follows: 1st Bn marriages 1798 - 1914 births/bapts 1812-1914 2nd Bn mar 1845 - 1914 b/bp 1849-1914 3rd Bn mar 1886 - 1912 b/bp1886 - 1912 4th Bn mar 1879 - 1911 b/bp 1887 - 1911 These might be on Find My past You might find out which Bn was in India on: http://web.archive.org/web/20060110124913/www.regiments.org/regiments/index.htm John M ----- Original Message ----- From: "WARDLE WILLIAM" <wwardle@ntlworld.com> To: "Lesley O'Connell" <lesleyo@tesco.net> Cc: <nottsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 1:34 PM Subject: Re: [NTT] Bertie Wardle and Sarah Jane McNamara > Hi Leslie, and everyone, I never thought my original request would have > taken up so much time and effort from you all. > > A few years ago I came across the Bertie Owen & Sarah Alberta GOFF > marriage in India but cannot remember the source. But one thing that I > DID'NT see was that this Bertie Owen's father was named Gilbert WARDLE. > The > same name as my g. grandfather. > I now find myself staring at the first line of Lesley's post > > " Bertie Owen Wardle, father Gilbert, on 24 > October 1907 in Calcutta, India " That looks very tasty indeed. > > Oh dear another can of worms ! > I now have to consider that Bertie told porkies about his 'Single' status > in Sheffield barracks in 1911 knowing that his new girlfriend was staying > at his parents home in Nottingham, and that he would have to lie for the > rest of his life about his first marriage and subsequent births of his > children from his second marriage. > > When I look at Bertie's photograph, butter wouldn't melt. > > I am now looking for records of The Northumberland Fusiliers at the > beginning of the 20th century. > > Anyone up for that !!!!!!!!!! > > Thanks go to Lesley, for such an in depth piece of research which will > serve as an example to all of us experienced and inexperienced alike. > Also thanks to all those who have made a contribution. Yet again the list > has proved that it is the bee's knees. > > > Bill W > > > > > > > > > > > On 24 November 2013 07:49, Lesley O'Connell <lesleyo@tesco.net> wrote: > >> >> Hi Bill >> >> Family Search has the marriage of Bertie Owen Wardle, father Gilbert, on >> 24 >> October 1907 in Calcutta, India but it is not to Sarah Jane McNamara but >> Sarah Alberta Goff, father Harry. Source : >> Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, 1713-1948 >> Author: >> India. Office of the Registrar General; Great Britain. India Office >> There is also a baptism for Sarah Alberta Emeline Goff, parents Harry and >> Catherine, in Agra, India, on 8 October 1890. So unless this Sarah died >> between then and 1912, Bertie would not have been able to marry Sarah >> Jane >> McNamara. >> >> This is indeed a complicated problem and all sorts of possible scenarios >> can >> be envisaged. What I think is most likely is that Bertie and his wife >> separated early on in their marriage and went their different ways but >> didn't get divorced, it being both difficult and expensive at that time. >> Sarah Jane McNamara came to Nottingham to work and became a boarder at >> Bertie's parents, as shown in the 1911 census, where she met Bertie. When >> the children were born they were registered as if the parents were >> married >> (was it Sarah Jane who registered them?) This was very easy; all Sarah >> Jane >> had to do was put on a wedding ring and the details she gave would be >> taken >> at face value. >> >> Other scenarios- Bertie's first wife did die (although Bertie does not >> describe himself as a widower in the 1911 census, he certainly did not >> tell >> the truth as he was either married or widowed at that period) and he and >> Sarah Jane did marry but the marriage was not recorded at the GRO. Or, >> even >> less plausibly, Sarah Alberta and Sarah Jane are one and the same, she >> having taken to using the surname McNamara and describing herself as >> single. >> >> It is likely to be very difficult, if not impossible, to get at the truth >> in >> this situation. You should think about investigating Bertie's service >> record >> to see if that provides any clues and checking with local registration >> district records to see if a marriage exists for Bertie and Sarah Jane >> that >> has somehow been omitted by the GRO. >> >> Lastly, just a thought. Why should your father's cousin believe that her >> parents were not married, if in fact they were? Normally it is the other >> way >> round. She must have some reason for her belief. Has anyone asked her? >> >> Regards >> Lesley >> Aveyron, France >> >> >> >> From: WARDLE WILLIAM [mailto:wwardle@ntlworld.com] >> Sent: 21 November 2013 10:34 >> To: Brian Binns >> Cc: NOTTSGEN-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [NTT] Sarah j McNamara >> >> >> >> Brian , with respect, >> >> >> >> I have pretty well searched through Ancestry 1901 Censuses etc. and have >> the >> copy you mention. I have disgarded it as incorrect . (a few more besides) >> >> You have suggested that Sarah J. had lied based on the entry in the 1901 >> census >> >> entry which shows a Sarah J. McNamara 7 yrs old.(not mine) >> >> >> >> What if 'My' Sarah J. WAS telling the truth? >> >> What is so sacrosanct about info given in Census records as opposed to >> info >> given in bmd certificates >> >> Sarah J.'s death certificate 1920 gives her age as 30yrs. (b. 1890) So >> not only did Sarah lie in the 1911 census and all 3 children's birth >> certificates Bertie Owen the informant of her death also lied about her >> age. >> >> >> >> I feel we are off track with my original request and that is: where or >> whether there >> >> is a marriage record in existence. >> >> Not whether I have drawn the correct conclusions from my evidence. >> >> >> >> My normal approach to research is to use the census only as a starting >> point. Then check other sources etc before buying certificates. >> >> >> >> ie I trust BMDs via GRO before Census records. >> >> We are continually being told not to rely on one source only. Which is >> what >> I have done by collecting 5x BMDs and 1x1911 Census. >> >> >> >> Best Regards >> >> >> >> Bill W >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Notts Surname List >> >> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > -- > Websites: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hartshorn/ > http://wardlehistory.tribalpages.com/?userid=wardlehistory&x=13&y=10 > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message