Bill, I really don't want to continue what you say is off track of your original request, and I am genuinely trying to help - I'm not just muddying the waters for no reason. I looked for a Sarah J McNamara on the 1901 census and could only found the one about whom I posted earlier. There is no other Sarah J McNamara so it is highly possible that this is your Sarah. She later was a single mother and many people, not just those perhaps trying to conceal things lied about their age on census forms. You yourself say you would rather trust BDMs rather than censuses. It is also quite conceivable that she was unaware of her actual birth place - I have many instances of people in my tree stating the place where they lived for most of their childhood as their birthplace. People were not so aware of their birthplace nor their birth date in those days. If we accept this theory, then once she had lied she would have to continue, so that's why Bertie have her age as 30 at her death - he wasn't lying, he was only repeating the age of Sarah that he had been told - by her! And I don't see where she could have lied about her age on a birth certificate. Neither the mother's nor father's age is/was required. Only trying to help. If you know of another Sarah McNamara other than the one I found then my theory is shot to bits. Brian Binns From: WARDLE WILLIAM [mailto:wwardle@ntlworld.com] Sent: 21 November 2013 10:34 To: Brian Binns Cc: NOTTSGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NTT] Sarah j McNamara Brian , with respect, I have pretty well searched through Ancestry 1901 Censuses etc. and have the copy you mention. I have disgarded it as incorrect . (a few more besides) You have suggested that Sarah J. had lied based on the entry in the 1901 census entry which shows a Sarah J. McNamara 7 yrs old.(not mine) What if 'My' Sarah J. WAS telling the truth? What is so sacrosanct about info given in Census records as opposed to info given in bmd certificates Sarah J.'s death certificate 1920 gives her age as 30yrs. (b. 1890) So not only did Sarah lie in the 1911 census and all 3 children's birth certificates Bertie Owen the informant of her death also lied about her age. I feel we are off track with my original request and that is: where or whether there is a marriage record in existence. Not whether I have drawn the correct conclusions from my evidence. My normal approach to research is to use the census only as a starting point. Then check other sources etc before buying certificates. ie I trust BMDs via GRO before Census records. We are continually being told not to rely on one source only. Which is what I have done by collecting 5x BMDs and 1x1911 Census. Best Regards Bill W On 21 November 2013 09:22, Brian Binns <bnbinns@gmail.com> wrote: Further to the previous correspondence, the only Sarah Jane McNamara I can find on the 1901 UK census is living in Scotland with her parents, but is listed as being only 7 years old i.e. born in 1894, but in Ireland! The 1911 Scotland census is not available on Ancestry so I cannot follow the rest of the family to confirm or otherwise whether this is the same Sarah. The Sarah Jane McNamara (Jennie) on the 1911 census in Nottingham is aged 21 - born 1890 - and gives her birthplace as Scotland. Given that the 1901 example appears to be the only match then Sarah was not telling the truth about her age in 1911, and had not realised/known where she had been born - both quite common occurrences. She would have been 15 or 16 when she gave birth to her daughter Phyllis, if the above is correct. Her given age at her death also concludes that she was born in 1890, but if she had deceived Bertie then he would have no reason to think otherwise. Family History research is rather complicated isn't it? Brian Binns Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Websites: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hartshorn/ http://wardlehistory.tribalpages.com/?userid=wardlehistory <http://wardlehistory.tribalpages.com/?userid=wardlehistory&x=13&y=10> &x=13&y=10