Thank you very much for your interest.I will try and set out clearly what I know and at the end the really intractable problem which I can actually see no way of solving. I have known about the John CLARK/ Sarah LOCKTON marriage at Car Colston and for a while I thought it was the correct one. Then I was given a copy of some notes made by an uncle of my husband's in which he stated categorically that John's Sarah was Sarah Broughton. He has been dead 30 years so I can't ring him up and ask him and of course at that time family research was much harder than it is today. Those of John and Sarah's children whom I know definitely about were all born in Hawksworth and baptised there, There were Mary 1800, John 1804 Elizabeth 1806 Hannah 1810 Ann 1813 William 1814 and Emma 1820. William was my husband's great-grandfather and for obvious reasons I know most about him.The note also refer to a Richard and a Thomas with no indication of birth dates. They might fit in to 1798/9 or to the years between 1814 and 1820, Clearly none of these events will yield certificates In the 1841 census John and Sarah were living in Lowdham.With them were William 25 Emma 20 and her daughter Isabellar (sic) 4 months. All are shown as born in the county. Eventually Emma married Thomas COOPER, framework knitter, and Isabella is with them in 1851 together with their other children although I have found no trace of her after that.Unfortunately both John and Sarah died before the 1851 Census. They were buried at Epperstone Sarah 23/11/1848 and John 16/2/1851 so there is no way of establishing John's birthplace. If only he had lived another two months! William married Mercy HOBSON from Gleadless in the West Riding at Epperstone on 4/10/1842 and I do have the certificate for that and their children's birth certificates and William and Mercy's Death Certificates. Mercy is sometimes wrongly transcribed as Mary but the christian name appears to be a peculiarity of the Hobson family (who seem to have been originally from from Carlton on Lindrick). In the 1851 Census William and Mercy are in Lowdham John 7, Hannah 5 and George 2. William was a gardener and so was at least one of his brothers. In 1861 they are back in Epperstone with with George 12, Gershom 8, Sarah Ann 6 and William 3. Hannah has gone into service and is still in Lowdham. Gershom sadly died in his teens of what is described on his death certificate as "common fever 15 days". My technical advisor says probably septicaemia. The family was briefly in East Markham but by 1871 they have moved near to Mercy's original home and are in Ecclesall Bierlow. With them are John 27, Sarah Ann 16 William 14 and Walter Hobson 8 (my husband's grandfather). Mercy died on 26/11/1879 and William on 13/10/1888. I hope this is enough detail to set the family in context. I could supply more if needed. I come now to the real problem, not so much a brick wall as a mountain. According to the uncle whose note I referred to earlier there was a letter written by John Bishop CLARKE son of William and Mercy's John. This must have been written at the end of the nineteenth century, so long after the events referred to but also a long time ago now. I don't know anyone who has ever actually seen it, so it is something like Chinese Whispers. However apparently the original John Clark born around 1771 was the son of a shoemaker in London who was quite prosperous. His father died before he was fully adult and his father's brother took all the money and threw him out of the business. Now family quarrels about money are common enough but this story has always left me with two questions. If John was old enough to be thrown out, he would in those days have already known something about shoemaking. Why didn't he get a shoemaking job with someone else? The other much bigger question is why did he move all the way to Notts in a pre-public transport world? There must be hundreds of places within twenty or thirty miles of London where he could have settled and never seen his uncle again. You will observe that in 1841 John is recorded as born in county but there are frequent errors in such statements. The only explanation that I can think of is that the shoemaking brothers had come originally from Notts and he made his way back to whatever family was here. All that said, I should be most grateful for any suggestions In hope Best wishes Alice Clarke Oakham, Rutland

Hi Alice   I would be inclined to go with the Uncle's note and except that John married Sarah Broughton just over the border from Hawksworth.   Has for John being the son of a London shoemaker and the argument over money and that he was thrown out at a young age; there is no clear evidence to support this, just hearsay.   I was always told to go with what you know, not what you don't know. Have you got John's death certificate? It clearly says he is born in Nottinghamshire on the 1841, but we have to have an open mind after all it's the 1800's we are talking about. I would be tempted to follow the possibility of his birth in Notts.   Sarah Broughton: There is a baptism on LDS 26 SEP 1773 Hawksworth, Nottingham, England and if you use the batch number there is about 8 more siblings. This you might have got already. Parents Michael and Mary.   The only thing that is left for you to do is to get a copy of the marriage from the local Library where they married, this might give you the valid information you are looking for.   Hope this helps. Best wishes and good hunting. Pat Williams --- On Sat, 11/4/09, Aliceclarke8@aol.com <Aliceclarke8@aol.com> wrote: From: Aliceclarke8@aol.com <Aliceclarke8@aol.com> Subject: Re: [NTT] Marriage of John CLARK and Sarah possibly BROUGHTON To: p.williams352@btinternet.com Cc: nottsgen@rootsweb.com Date: Saturday, 11 April, 2009, 8:03 PM Thank you  very much for your interest.I will try and set out clearly what I know and at the end the really intractable problem which I can actually see no way of solving.  I have known about the John CLARK/ Sarah LOCKTON marriage at Car Colston and for a while I thought it was the correct one. Then I was given a copy of some notes made by an uncle of my husband's in which he stated categorically that John's Sarah was Sarah Broughton.  He has been dead 30 years so I can't ring him up and ask him and of course at that time family research was much harder than it is today.   Those of John and Sarah's children whom I know definitely about were all born in Hawksworth and baptised there,  There were Mary 1800, John 1804 Elizabeth 1806 Hannah 1810  Ann 1813 William 1814 and Emma 1820.  William was my husband's great-grandfather and for obvious reasons I know most about him.The note also refer to a Richard and a Thomas with no indication of birth dates.  They might fit in to 1798/9 or to the years between 1814 and 1820, Clearly none of these events will yield certificates   In the 1841 census John and Sarah were living in Lowdham.With them were William 25  Emma 20 and her daughter Isabellar (sic) 4 months. All are shown as born in the county.  Eventually Emma married Thomas COOPER, framework knitter, and Isabella is with them in 1851 together with their other children although I have found no trace of her after that.Unfortunately both John and Sarah died before the 1851 Census.  They were buried at Epperstone Sarah 23/11/1848 and John 16/2/1851 so there is no way of establishing John's birthplace.  If only he had lived another two months!   William married Mercy HOBSON from Gleadless in the West Riding at Epperstone on 4/10/1842 and I do have the certificate for that and their children's birth certificates and William and Mercy's Death Certificates.  Mercy is sometimes wrongly transcribed as Mary but the christian name appears to be a peculiarity of the Hobson family (who seem to have been originally from from Carlton on Lindrick).   In the 1851 Census William and Mercy are in Lowdham John 7, Hannah 5 and George 2.  William was a gardener and so was at least one of his brothers. In 1861 they are back in Epperstone with  with George 12, Gershom 8, Sarah Ann 6  and William 3.  Hannah has gone into service and is still in Lowdham.  Gershom sadly died in his teens of what is described on his death certificate as "common fever 15 days".  My technical advisor says probably septicaemia. The family was briefly in East Markham but by 1871 they have moved  near to Mercy's original home and are in Ecclesall Bierlow.  With them are John 27, Sarah Ann 16 William 14 and Walter Hobson 8 (my husband's grandfather). Mercy died on 26/11/1879 and William on 13/10/1888.  I hope this is enough detail to set the family in context.  I could supply more if needed.   I come now to the real problem, not so much a brick wall as a mountain. According to the uncle whose note I referred to earlier there was a letter written by John Bishop CLARKE son of William and Mercy's John.  This must have been written at the end of the nineteenth century, so long after the events referred to but also a long time ago now.  I don't know anyone who has ever actually seen it, so it is something like Chinese Whispers.  However apparently the original John Clark born around 1771 was the son of a shoemaker in London who was quite prosperous. His father died before he was fully adult and his father's brother took all the money and threw him out of the business.  Now family quarrels about money are common enough but this story has always left me with two questions.  If John was old enough to be thrown out, he would in those days have already known something about shoemaking.  Why didn't he get a shoemaking job with someone else?  The other much bigger question is why did he move all the way to Notts in a pre-public transport world? There must be hundreds of places  within twenty or thirty miles of London where he could have settled and never seen his uncle again.  You will observe that in 1841 John is recorded as born in county but there are frequent errors in such statements. The only explanation that I can think of is that the shoemaking brothers had come originally from Notts and he made his way back to whatever family was here.   All that said, I should be most grateful for any suggestions In hope Best wishes Alice Clarke Oakham, Rutland   

Hi, The Mill at Lowdham was quite famous for 'hiring' children from London. See the attached web link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Blincoe cheers Pete in Mansfield ----- Original Message ----- From: <Aliceclarke8@aol.com> To: <p.williams352@btinternet.com> Cc: <nottsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [NTT] Marriage of John CLARK and Sarah possibly BROUGHTON > Thank you very much for your interest.I will try and set out clearly > what I > know and at the end the really intractable problem which I can actually > see > no way of solving. I have known about the John CLARK/ Sarah LOCKTON > marriage > at Car Colston and for a while I thought it was the correct one. Then I > was > given a copy of some notes made by an uncle of my husband's in which he > stated categorically that John's Sarah was Sarah Broughton. He has been > dead 30 > years so I can't ring him up and ask him and of course at that time > family > research was much harder than it is today. > > Those of John and Sarah's children whom I know definitely about were all > born in Hawksworth and baptised there, There were Mary 1800, John 1804 > Elizabeth 1806 Hannah 1810 Ann 1813 William 1814 and Emma 1820. William > was my > husband's great-grandfather and for obvious reasons I know most about > him.The > note also refer to a Richard and a Thomas with no indication of birth > dates. > They might fit in to 1798/9 or to the years between 1814 and 1820, > Clearly none > of these events will yield certificates > > In the 1841 census John and Sarah were living in Lowdham.With them were > William 25 Emma 20 and her daughter Isabellar (sic) 4 months. All are > shown as > born in the county. Eventually Emma married Thomas COOPER, framework > knitter, > and Isabella is with them in 1851 together with their other children > although I have found no trace of her after that.Unfortunately both John > and Sarah > died before the 1851 Census. They were buried at Epperstone Sarah > 23/11/1848 > and John 16/2/1851 so there is no way of establishing John's birthplace. > If > only he had lived another two months! > > William married Mercy HOBSON from Gleadless in the West Riding at > Epperstone > on 4/10/1842 and I do have the certificate for that and their children's > birth certificates and William and Mercy's Death Certificates. Mercy is > sometimes wrongly transcribed as Mary but the christian name appears to > be a > peculiarity of the Hobson family (who seem to have been originally from > from Carlton > on Lindrick). > > In the 1851 Census William and Mercy are in Lowdham John 7, Hannah 5 and > George 2. William was a gardener and so was at least one of his brothers. > In > 1861 they are back in Epperstone with with George 12, Gershom 8, Sarah > Ann 6 > and William 3. Hannah has gone into service and is still in Lowdham. > Gershom sadly died in his teens of what is described on his death > certificate as > "common fever 15 days". My technical advisor says probably septicaemia. > The > family was briefly in East Markham but by 1871 they have moved near to > Mercy's > original home and are in Ecclesall Bierlow. With them are John 27, Sarah > Ann 16 William 14 and Walter Hobson 8 (my husband's grandfather). Mercy > died on > 26/11/1879 and William on 13/10/1888. I hope this is enough detail to > set > the family in context. I could supply more if needed. > > I come now to the real problem, not so much a brick wall as a mountain. > According to the uncle whose note I referred to earlier there was a letter > written by John Bishop CLARKE son of William and Mercy's John. This must > have been > written at the end of the nineteenth century, so long after the events > referred to but also a long time ago now. I don't know anyone who has > ever > actually seen it, so it is something like Chinese Whispers. However > apparently the > original John Clark born around 1771 was the son of a shoemaker in London > who was quite prosperous. His father died before he was fully adult and > his > father's brother took all the money and threw him out of the business. > Now > family quarrels about money are common enough but this story has always > left me > with two questions. If John was old enough to be thrown out, he would in > those days have already known something about shoemaking. Why didn't he > get a > shoemaking job with someone else? The other much bigger question is why > did he > move all the way to Notts in a pre-public transport world? There must be > hundreds of places within twenty or thirty miles of London where he > could have > settled and never seen his uncle again. You will observe that in 1841 > John > is recorded as born in county but there are frequent errors in such > statements. The only explanation that I can think of is that the > shoemaking brothers > had come originally from Notts and he made his way back to whatever > family was > here. > > All that said, I should be most grateful for any suggestions > In hope > Best wishes > Alice Clarke > Oakham, Rutland > > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. 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