Thank you for all your help. Yes I have John's Death Certificate but like all from this period it doesn't tell you much, certainly not where he was born. Just Agricultural Labourer, cause of death senile decay (before the period when a doctor was required) and William was the informant. I know about the Broughton extracted records and since there is somebody on Ancestry who has a public tree which links into this family, I may contact him and see if he can add any light. I think the suggestion by Peter Wright that John was sent up from London as a pauper apprentice to the mill at Lowdham is absolutely brilliant. It fits in very well with the little we know. The only disadvantage is that I am not likely to to get back much further because I doubt if the Overseers of Poor kept much in the way of records. However, I would never rule out a Notts birth completely so sooner or later I can see I shall have to visit Notts CRO. I fear my grandchildren, only one of whom is actually a Clarke, may have to accept that this is as much as they can hope to know about this part of their family. I can do better in others. I wil report back if and when I make progress. Anyway, thank you again for your help and best wishes Alice Clarke Oakham Rutland