Hallo Roy....and also David and Pat Thank you all so much for your quick responses. Wow!! I searched and searched using Robert's name and Sarah, and then I looked for the children with name variants too but nothing came up for me. Thank you very much for this; I too think it sounds as if he's my man! Thanks also for sending the references as I can now search on that and look at the census myself on Ancestry. Interesting to see that address 21 Aspell Street, Newton. When Robert married the second time, he gave his address as 3 Aspell Street, so that makes it all seem to fit even more, doesn't it. I don't have Robert's birth certificate as I couldn't find a suitable birth reference which clicked for me, but now with all this new information perhaps I'll be able track it down and send for it. This is just great. Many thanks to all; once the rugby is finished today, I'll set to more research! Suzie (from Orkney) >From "Roy Stockdill" <roy.stockdill@btinternet.com> To: "Nottingham List" <NOTTSGEN@rootsweb.com>; "Suzie Woodward" <vestlaybanks@btinternet.com> From: "Suzie Woodward" <vestlaybanks@btinternet.com> > Robert was b 1864 in Ilkeston. His father was Henry, an iron moulder. > Can't find Robert in 1881. > > He married Sarah WHEATLEY in 1884 in Nottingham. > Robert & Sarah had 5 children between 1884 and 1895: > Emmeline, Harry, Adelaide, Ernest and Bertha. > > I believe Sarah died, possibly after childbirth, in 1895, and Robert > married again. > > His second marriage was to Catherine HEAL(E)Y who was b 1867 in > Dublin. > > My problem is I cannot find Robert, Sarah or any of the children in > 1891. I have got Robert and family in 1901 and 1911 in Miles Platting, > Manchester. > > I know I could send for the second marriage certificate which would > give me details of Sarah's father, but just thought I'd check in with > the list first. > > Regards > Suzie (from Orkney) > I think I have solved it with a bit of lateral thinking and searching, which is what you very often need to employ in this business! Robert Savage appears to be found in some censuses as Robert GRIBBY or GREBBY. I suggest he was perhaps born illegitimate and used both this name and SAVAGE. In 1891 - and it MUST be them - there is a Robert Gribby, iron moulder, born Ilkeston 1864, with wife Sarah, 26, b Cossall, Notts, with 3 children - Emmaline, Harry and Adelaide - plus a Nellie Gribby, aged 17, also born Ilkeston, plus two boarders living at 21 Aspell St, Newton, Manchester. The PRO reference is: RG12 Piece no. 3251, folio 84, page 32. In 1871 Robert is found as Robert SAVILLE, aged 7, son of Henry and Ann GREBBY [sic] in the civil parish of Ilkeston but in Basford, Notts, registration district. Ref: RG10 Piece 3483, folio 80, page 42. The name Saville was probably an enumerator's error. In 1881 he is found as Robert GREBBY, 17, an iron moulder like his father, son of Henry and Ann, still at Ilkeston in Basford RD, with seven siblings. Ref: RG11 3327, folio 121, page 3. I feel quite certain this is the same man in all censuses and, as I suggested, he was probably illegitimate - his original surname probably being SAVAGE - and then his mother married Henry GRIBBY or GREBBY. Confusing but this is a far from rare situation! Do you have Robert's birth certificate? Was there a father on it or was he born illegitimate to Ann Savage? You will find the potential marriage of HENRY GREBBY to ANN SAVAGE at Nottingham in the Mar quarter of 1871 - FreeBMD 7b 281. Problem solved, I believe. However, this kind of research with lateral thinking - i.e. putting in just a first name and birthdate and birthplace with no surname - needs a good deal of experience in searching censuses and I hope you will find this little lesson of use in the future. -- Roy Stockdill Professional genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE