Jean, I am not saying the story is true or that it involved the 5th Duke however it is plausible as he lived 1800 to 1879. When I first started looking and read the information on Wikipedia and other sites I dismissed the story as one of those that gave justification for being poor. Then I found another line with the basic same story. With the addition of the 3rd line and information about another investigation and copy of the Baptismal Certificate I believe there is some thread of truth to the story. My main purpose is to determine where this line of Haycock's came from. If there are other line's with the same story they may have additional information that allow me to identify the participants and where the family originated. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean WOOD" <jeangrahame@orange.fr> To: "Bruce P Barrett" <brucepbarrett@roadrunner.com>; "Mailing List Nottinghamshire" <NOTTSGEN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 5:41 PM Subject: re: [NTT] Possible HAYCOCK connection to Duke of Portland I'm just throwing in my two-penn'orth: A year or so ago, I listened to a (presumably - from other evidence written) well-researched play (radio 4) about 5th Duke. I have read the Wikipaedia piece which backs up what was said there, the main relevant thing being that he did not have any known relationships with women. The one woman he did yearn for was an actress, elderly by the time of the play - and possibly older than he - whom he entertained either in London or Welbeck and she gently let him down. The whole atmosphere was of a moonstruck boy with a crush, but by then elderly (70s?) who had never enjoyed any real female company. If there was such a byblow in the family, might it have been his brother or cousin who was responsible? Jean > Message du 31/01/09 22:01 > De : "Bruce P Barrett" > A : "Mailing List Nottinghamshire" > Copie à : > Objet : [NTT] Possible HAYCOCK connection to Duke of Portland > > > Dear list, > > I am helping a friend and his elderly uncle research their family history. > There is a family legend/story that involves a connection with the Duke of > Portland in the early 1800s. The story goes that a young woman with the > surname of HAYCOCK, a servant at the Duke of Portland estate in > Nottinghamshire, had a child out of wedlock who may have been fathered by > the Duke. > > Current research has identified their direct ancestor as Joseph Haycock > born about 1831 in Worksop, Nottinghamshire. Joseph married and lived in > Sheffield, Yorkshire. He and his wife Maria Cawthorn had 5 children Fanny > Jane, Maria, Lucy, Thomas and Annie. > > I have not been able to find his christening however there is a John > Haycock christened 27 Feb 1820 at St Mary (Priory). John's mother is Ann > Haycock a "Singlewoman" living at Bridge St in Worksop. > > The story of a connection to the Duke of Portland appears in 3 different > descendant lines of Joseph. > > I found a query on the Nottingham message board posted in 2001 indicating > a Duke of Portland connection but have been unable to contact the > individual. > > I also made contact with another descendant of Joseph via a different > line. The following is what he provided. > > > > "I spoke to my mother this morning about the Duke of Portland link and the > story, as she recalls it, is that it is possibly John Haycock who was the > illegitimate son of the Duke of Portland. Someone in the family, she is > not sure who, tried investigating the matter sometime between 1900 & 1950 > (a bit vague but she is trying to recall something that was last discussed > around 50 years ago).She tells me that there were a number of letters in > my paternal grandmother's possession relating to it but they were > destroyed at some stage as they were causing a rift in the family. My > mother did get to have a look at them before they were destroyed and she > seems to recall a letter from a solicitor stating that (whoever) was doing > the investigation would be well advised to leave things alone. She seems > to regard this as proof that there was some basis in the rumour and this > was the Duke's solicitor warning the person off; however I think it could > just as easily have been the person's so! > licitor advising them that it wasn't worth the effort as there was no > substance in the matter. > > > > She says that the person, who she thinks was named John or Joseph but is > not sure, never held down a job but would quite often disappear for some > length of time and reappear with money. His wife was obviously suspicious > of this and found out that he was being paid for doing jobs around the > Duke's estate. On one of these visits the man died and was given a fairly > extravagant funeral with a hearse pulled by 4 black horses. If it is John > and there is truth in the story then his father could have been the 4th > Duke. If it is Joseph then it could have been the 5th Duke who, according > to Wikipedia, was a bit of a strange chap." > > > > His mother provided a copy of John Haycock's baptism certificate dated in > 1903. > > > > I am looking for others with this legend/story in their family in an > effort to determine as much of the story possible. I would like to know > where this family originated as I can't find them in Nottinghamshire prior > to 1820. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Bruce Barrett > > Heath, Ohio > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Jean Wood 11 impasse Pampanie chez Perineau 17610 Chaniers France Tel: 0033(0)5.46.93.38.71

Well, good luck, a fascinating tale and it could well be true, but just on what is before me, if true, I would think papa - 4th duke - a far likelier candidate, but all is speculation until you find the link! Again good luck! jean > Message du 01/02/09 00:13 > De : "Bruce P Barrett" > A : "Jean WOOD" , "Mailing List Nottinghamshire" > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [NTT] Possible HAYCOCK connection to Duke of Portland > > > Jean, > I am not saying the story is true or that it involved the 5th Duke however > it is plausible as he lived 1800 to 1879. When I first started looking and > read the information on Wikipedia and other sites I dismissed the story as > one of those that gave justification for being poor. Then I found another > line with the basic same story. With the addition of the 3rd line and > information about another investigation and copy of the Baptismal > Certificate I believe there is some thread of truth to the story. > My main purpose is to determine where this line of Haycock's came from. If > there are other line's with the same story they may have additional > information that allow me to identify the participants and where the family > originated. > Thanks > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jean WOOD" > To: "Bruce P Barrett" ; "Mailing List > Nottinghamshire" > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 5:41 PM > Subject: re: [NTT] Possible HAYCOCK connection to Duke of Portland > > > > I'm just throwing in my two-penn'orth: > > A year or so ago, I listened to a (presumably - from other evidence written) > well-researched play (radio 4) about 5th Duke. I have read the Wikipaedia > piece which backs up what was said there, the main relevant thing being that > he did not have any known relationships with women. The one woman he did > yearn for was an actress, elderly by the time of the play - and possibly > older than he - whom he entertained either in London or Welbeck and she > gently let him down. > > The whole atmosphere was of a moonstruck boy with a crush, but by then > elderly (70s?) who had never enjoyed any real female company. > > If there was such a byblow in the family, might it have been his brother or > cousin who was responsible? > > Jean > > > > > > Message du 31/01/09 22:01 > > De : "Bruce P Barrett" > > A : "Mailing List Nottinghamshire" > > Copie à : > > Objet : [NTT] Possible HAYCOCK connection to Duke of Portland > > > > > > Dear list, > > > > I am helping a friend and his elderly uncle research their family history. > > There is a family legend/story that involves a connection with the Duke of > > Portland in the early 1800s. The story goes that a young woman with the > > surname of HAYCOCK, a servant at the Duke of Portland estate in > > Nottinghamshire, had a child out of wedlock who may have been fathered by > > the Duke. > > > > Current research has identified their direct ancestor as Joseph Haycock > > born about 1831 in Worksop, Nottinghamshire. Joseph married and lived in > > Sheffield, Yorkshire. He and his wife Maria Cawthorn had 5 children Fanny > > Jane, Maria, Lucy, Thomas and Annie. > > > > I have not been able to find his christening however there is a John > > Haycock christened 27 Feb 1820 at St Mary (Priory). John's mother is Ann > > Haycock a "Singlewoman" living at Bridge St in Worksop. > > > > The story of a connection to the Duke of Portland appears in 3 different > > descendant lines of Joseph. > > > > I found a query on the Nottingham message board posted in 2001 indicating > > a Duke of Portland connection but have been unable to contact the > > individual. > > > > I also made contact with another descendant of Joseph via a different > > line. The following is what he provided. > > > > > > > > "I spoke to my mother this morning about the Duke of Portland link and the > > story, as she recalls it, is that it is possibly John Haycock who was the > > illegitimate son of the Duke of Portland. Someone in the family, she is > > not sure who, tried investigating the matter sometime between 1900 & 1950 > > (a bit vague but she is trying to recall something that was last discussed > > around 50 years ago).She tells me that there were a number of letters in > > my paternal grandmother's possession relating to it but they were > > destroyed at some stage as they were causing a rift in the family. My > > mother did get to have a look at them before they were destroyed and she > > seems to recall a letter from a solicitor stating that (whoever) was doing > > the investigation would be well advised to leave things alone. She seems > > to regard this as proof that there was some basis in the rumour and this > > was the Duke's solicitor warning the person off; however I think it could > > just as easily have been the person's so! > > licitor advising them that it wasn't worth the effort as there was no > > substance in the matter. > > > > > > > > She says that the person, who she thinks was named John or Joseph but is > > not sure, never held down a job but would quite often disappear for some > > length of time and reappear with money. His wife was obviously suspicious > > of this and found out that he was being paid for doing jobs around the > > Duke's estate. On one of these visits the man died and was given a fairly > > extravagant funeral with a hearse pulled by 4 black horses. If it is John > > and there is truth in the story then his father could have been the 4th > > Duke. If it is Joseph then it could have been the 5th Duke who, according > > to Wikipedia, was a bit of a strange chap." > > > > > > > > His mother provided a copy of John Haycock's baptism certificate dated in > > 1903. > > > > > > > > I am looking for others with this legend/story in their family in an > > effort to determine as much of the story possible. I would like to know > > where this family originated as I can't find them in Nottinghamshire prior > > to 1820. > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Bruce Barrett > > > > Heath, Ohio > > > > > > Notts Surname List > > > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > Jean Wood 11 impasse Pampanie chez Perineau 17610 Chaniers France Tel: > 0033(0)5.46.93.38.71 > > > Jean Wood 11 impasse Pampanie chez Perineau 17610 Chaniers France Tel: 0033(0)5.46.93.38.71