Hi Tony Can you give the page reference so we can take a look at it Generally speaking the information was taken from the schedule which was filled in by the householder then collected by the enumerator and copied up at home It sounds as if the householder had not completed the schedule and the enumerator made a best guess at their ages , they did not have much time to complete the whole and return it Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi list, I have recently come across something on the 1851 Census which I > have never seen in more than a few years of research and I'm wondering if > anyone has any ideas. > > Looking for a William Mason, born about 1845 in Middlesex I find a Family > where the Mother and Father simply give their ages as "Over 20" and they > give the ages of all their three children (including William Mason) as > "under 20". The Father simply states he has "No Profession" > > Now, are they simply being awkward or is there some reason for this that > I've not come across ? The enumerator obviously accepted it and wrote it > down on the schedule. Any thoughts on this will be most welcome. Best > wishes, Tony Burton

Hi Nivard, Thanks for the interest. Looked for William Mason on 1851 Ref: HO107 Piece1525 Folio 545 pp32. The Parents don't even say where they were born. The other families on the same sheet all give their details as normal Tony. On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Tony > > Can you give the page reference so we can take a look at it > > Generally speaking the information was taken from the schedule which was > filled in by the householder then collected by the enumerator and copied up > at home > > It sounds as if the householder had not completed the schedule and the > enumerator made a best guess at their ages , they did not have much time to > complete the whole and return it > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > Hi list, I have recently come across something on the 1851 Census which I >> have never seen in more than a few years of research and I'm wondering if >> anyone has any ideas. >> >> Looking for a William Mason, born about 1845 in Middlesex I find a Family >> where the Mother and Father simply give their ages as "Over 20" and they >> give the ages of all their three children (including William Mason) as >> "under 20". The Father simply states he has "No Profession" >> >> Now, are they simply being awkward or is there some reason for this that >> I've not come across ? The enumerator obviously accepted it and wrote it >> down on the schedule. Any thoughts on this will be most welcome. Best >> wishes, Tony Burton >> > >

Hi again Looking at the page I would still suggest the schedule (140) was half filled in and the enumerator did not check it before returning home Otherwise how would you explain the more than vague ages (if that is indeed what it says "over" ?) and only three birth places for the children If someone else gave the details as they were out when the enumerator went to collect the form you would expect either a little more or no birthplaces at all It certainly couldn't be anyone from the household itself or they would know at least one age wouldn't they <g> Sadly we are unlikely to ever know the real reason as the household schedules were destroyed after transcription The only other time I have seen this sort of vague entry is for gypsies, boat people or tramps who were reluctant to give details and the enumerators were often wary of approaching them Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi Nivard, Thanks for the interest. Looked for William Mason on 1851 Ref: > HO107 Piece1525 Folio 545 pp32. The Parents don't even say where they > were born. The other families on the same sheet all give their details as > normal > Tony.

Hi Nivard & Tony   ><>Generally speaking the information was taken from the schedule which was filled in by the householder then collected by the enumerator and copied up at home I must say Nivard's reply really surprised me . . .   I would say generally speaking not too many households in 1851 would even contain a person capable of filling in any details themselves if they could read the forms in the first place. Hence we have the problem of names written phonetically as the enumerator heard them.   Regards Kara DRURY NZ   > Hi list,  I have recently come across something on the 1851 Census which I > have never seen in more than a few years of research and I'm wondering if > anyone has any ideas. > > Looking for a William Mason, born about 1845 in Middlesex I find a Family > where the Mother and Father simply give their ages as "Over 20" and they > give the ages of all their three children (including William Mason) as > "under 20".  The Father simply states he has "No Profession" > > Now, are they simply being awkward or is there some reason for this that > I've not come across ?  The enumerator obviously accepted it and wrote it > down on the schedule.  Any thoughts on this will be most welcome.  Best > wishes, Tony Burton

Hi Kara The census in the USA was taken door to door and the details taken by the enumerator In the UK the enumerator left a schedule with each household (or more if was a split household) The form was to be filled in by the householder with those who would be at home as of midnight on census day, the schedules were then collected the day after by the enumerator He took them home, collated them and transcribed them onto the pages we see online today The enumerators were paid a fee for doing the whole job and returning the transcribed details in a set time as follows ====================== 1851 Census (from Histpop) Forms and Instructions p39 Allowances to Enumerators For various duties performed with respect to the census of the Population; including the delivery and collection of all necessary forms, the enumeration of houses in the district, and of the persons resident therein on the night of March 30th 1851, and the subsequent completion of his Enumeration schedule. £0 /18s/0d Note:- The above pay is subject to a deduction of 5s, if the Enumeration Schedule is not delivered into the hands of the Registrar before the 8th day of April 1851 If the Enumerator's District contain more than 300 inhabitants, an additional fee of 1s for every 60 persons duly enumerated above 300 In every District containing more than 25 inhabited houses, an additional 1s for every mile above 5 miles necessarily traversed by the Enumerator, in visiting every house within his District; but not including any distance traversed by him between his own place of abode and the first and last houses visited ================ Clearly the enumerator helped some to fill in the schedules but most would be done when collected, if not by the householder or his children, then by a friend or neighbour It does not take much thought to realise the enumerator would simply not have the time to do many himself I think the literacy level is perhaps somewhat higher than you think it was, there would only need to be one family member who could write to fill it in I would suggest much of the problem we face with the jumbled up names and misspellings are due more to the handwriting of the person who filled in the schedule, added to that the enumerators did not have time to go back and ask what the scribble actually said so put down their best guess Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) Hi Nivard & Tony ><>Generally speaking the information was taken from the schedule which was filled in by the householder then collected by the enumerator and copied up at home I must say Nivard's reply really surprised me . . . I would say generally speaking not too many households in 1851 would even contain a person capable of filling in any details themselves if they could read the forms in the first place. Hence we have the problem of names written phonetically as the enumerator heard them. Regards Kara DRURY NZ

On 18/10/2011 21:40, Kara Oosterman wrote: > > I must say Nivard's reply really surprised me . . . > > I would say generally speaking not too many households in 1851 would even contain a person capable of filling in any details themselves if they could read the forms in the first place. Hence we have the problem of names written phonetically as the enumerator heard them. > > Regards > Kara > DRURY NZ > You may be surprised to learn that various studies have shown literacy levels of our ancestors were very close to that of today. It is thought that even the peasant's revolt (1381) was co-ordinated with written instructions. Cheers Guy -- http://freespace.virgin.net/guy.etchells/ The site that gives you facts not promises http://anguline.co.uk/ Old and rare books on CD

Does anyone with an Ancestry account know how to get the "old search" routine to work again ? I find the new search inadequate and time wasting, when wanting to hone in on a particular requirement. Keith Wellington, NZ