Hallo Martyn, When I did history at school, we learned a lot about the guild system; Towns protected their tradespeople, and the quality of work produced by having Guilds (unions). These were organised by the masters of the Guilds. This system is clearly explained in the link below. http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/craft-guilds-in-the-middle-ages.htm Interestingly all the words come from the French - An Apprentice = Apprentis(Fr) learns - verb apprendre,and is tied to his master to whom he, or his parents have paid a premium for the privilege. When he or she has completed the apprenticeship, he works, and is paid by, the day = journey (nothing to do with travel, French JOURNEE = day,) but he is free to seek to work for another master, then in his own time he works on his MASTERPIECE and when this is accepted by the guild to be of sufficient quality, he is allowed to open his own business as a MASTER (French MAITRE/MAISTRE) This system was becoming less enforced throughought the 19C and 20C and I have not come across the phrase SHOP MAN, but would hazard a guess that it was simply what we would call a shop assistant, with or without training, so the enumerator could safely write that without mis-appropriating a title for the man described. Jean Wood > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 07:03:19 +1000 > Subject: [NTT] Shop Man > > My thanks are extended to David Hallam who confirmed my suspicion that OUT > OF PLACE means unemployed. > > An 25 year-old ancestor of mine worked for brother-in-law’s shoe-making > business in 1841 and was recorded as a journeyman shoe-maker in that year. > by 1851 his sister took over as the owner of the business in 1851 after her > husband had died and my ancestor was then employed as a “Shop Man”. I > understand that a journeyman was someone who had completed an apprenticeship > but did not own his own business. What is a Shop Man - is that the next > step up the ladder? Did he act as a foreman? > > Martyn > Queensland, Australia > > > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message