many thanks to Peter R Booth who I inadvertantly replied to off line instead of replying to all He was very helpful and did a search for me Peter also suggested that I post again to see if anyone has any ideas how to proceed so here it is I've a similar problem with JOHNSON and read with interest all comments maybe someone out there has some ideas. I have John William JOHNSON birth cert. - born 7/5/1876 Stretton Street, sub district St Ann, Nottingham father John William JOHNSON brewer - mother Charlotte WARD their marriage cert. 7/11/1875 John William JOHNSON 21 Brewer father William JOHNSON - labourer to Charlotte WARD 22 father John WARD yeast manufacturer Residence for both Stubbs Yard parish church of St Marys Nottingham 1881 census William JOHNSON age26 brewer b. Cadeby Yorkshire living New Yard Nottingham - Forest municipal ward RG11/3351 page 17 wife Charlotte age28 b. Nottm son- William JOHNSON age4 b. Nottm John William JOHNSON birth cert. - born 16/3/1857 Cadeby sub district Barmborough -Doncaster in the Counties of York & Nottingham his father William JOHNSON b. c1827 Nottingham, ag lab. - mother Elizabeth MARSHALL - their marriage cert. - 18/3/1850 William JOHNSON to Elizabeth MARSHALL both of age Cadeby father William JOHNSON labourer /John MARSHALL mason 1871 census HEAD William JOHNSON 46 B. Nottingham railway platelayer Shafton Lane Holbeck Leeds. RG10/ 4523 page 18 wife Elizabeth 45 b. Cadeby children - Elizabeth19 flax mill hand, Harriet 7, Sarah 4 b. Holbeck 1871 census John MARSHALL head 69 mason b Cadeby village Cadeby parish Sprotborough York RG10/4716 page 15 wife Lydia 64 b South Elmsall John W JOHNSON age15 grandson gardener b. Cadeby 1861 census William JOHNSON head 35 Plate Layer b. Nottingham Nottinghamshire living Low Close, Holbeck Leeds RG9/3364 page 1 wife Elizabeth 34 b Cadeby Yorkshire children Ann 10, Elizabeth 7, both b. Cadeby & both flax factory workers, John W. 4, and Polly 2months both b. Holbeck Yorkshire 1851census William JOHNSON son in law age 26 labourer b. Nottingham Elizabeth wife 23 they are both living with Elizabeths parents in Cadeby HO107/2346/2 that is it - his father is William JOHNSON labourer from his birth cert. I have looked in Nottingham but as I don't have a census for William JOHNSON before he moved to Cadeby then I am short of clues. I visited Nottm. Archives but didn't really know where to start all thoughts gratefully received Hazel Green