Hi Ted, Brian, Peter and others on the Notts and Derbys lists. I looked at the 1891 census in question and that word Spawich is actually Ipswich. As I said to Ted it helps to know the English place names and be able to decipher them. By the way, Ted and I think that we are related through the Hawksley line but we need to sort out a couple of missing links to prove it. We both live in Western Australia, emigrated two years apart, came on the same ship and now have met a couple of times. Peter Patilla and I may also be related through the same Hawksley line. What a small world. Regards, Malcolm in Perth, originally from Nottingham -----Original Message----- From: nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Brian Binns Sent: Sunday, 6 October 2013 6:02 PM To: 'Ted Stevenson'; NOTTSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NTT] The Travelling shoemaker Hi Ted, Oddly enough, Robert's occupation on the 1891 census is recorded as a Card Winder, with the enumerator having added "Lace" to the entry. This would appear to be an error as on the 1881 census he is a Cordwainer, as he is on the 1871. In 1881 the family were living at 7 Rushton Terrace, St. Anns, Nottingham. If you re-check the 1891 census you will see that the sons born in Spawich are not Robert's children but the sons of Constance Jones who was living next door to Robert Hawksley. She is recorded as a daughter, so presumably the actual tenant of this house, her father, was absent on Census night. She was born in Mansfield and again you have taken Ancestry's transcription which incorrectly records her as Robert Hawksley's daughter. It's always advisable to check the actual entry and not trust Ancestry's transcriptions. Brian Binns -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 1061 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen

Hi Jean Sorry for the late reply, due to my youngest daughter having married on Saturday last :-) Now clearly what one person needs, another doesn't I am the doesn't <bg> Honestly, in many years of computer use and many a letter, I have only ever needed special characters a couple of times, if that gbp works for pounds for example I can barely remember if I have put my socks on of a morning much less many different codes to produce some symbol or other for which I either do without or use another way to express it Its much quicker to type gbp for pounds or dollars for errr.. dollars or whatever than to go and find an alt code It reminds me of the abbreviations the kids use in text messages, by the time they have found and used the abbreviation, and responded to the recipient who doesn't know what it means, it would be quicker to type the word out <g> But for those people that alt codes work for, great Character map is on all Win7 machines as I said should a special character be needed (it was on earlier OS but its easier to locate on Win7) Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 03/10/2013 17:25, Jean WOOD wrote: > > > Well: for the first time Nivard, I have not understood what you mean! > > I do not see how you can type in the character you are looking for - I tried and just found I was looking for details on my own system Windows 7 ! > > If I have wanted to check a character I type "Alt Codes" into a search box. I use it a lot, daily, but that is because I have an American keyboard ($ but no £) and no accents - and I live in France which uses them lavishly. In addition it offers Greek letters - good for maths! and ↓→ and ↑ which can be useful in simple trees. > Also superscript numbers - useful for footnotes etc ² and symbols such as ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ which can be used for identification > > I used quite a lot when writing my Huguenot family history > > Have fun! > > Jean Wood

Hi, Grove and Moorhouse are two villages in Notts about 10 miles apart, each a few miles from Tuxford. regards pete On 7 October 2013 17:56, Marcia Green <mwverde@gmail.com> wrote: > In an effort to figure out which Francis Nelson was the father of > James Nelson, born 1792, supposedly in Lowdham, I am > doing a study on any Francis Nelson in Nottinghamshire or Derbyshire, > from 1760 to whenever each particular Francis died. > It is tough going. I have used findmypast, ancestry and familysearch. > > These are the areas where I have found a Francis: Worksop in N., > Sutton-cum-duckmanton in D, possibly Nottingham city. > So far I am not venturing into Lincolnshire or Yorkshire. > > 1. A Francis Nelson was born in 1732 and there is a death record > for him in Sutton cum Duckmanton, 1806. I don't tie him to anyone yet. > BUT this area seems to have had several Francises. A prime > candidate married Ann West in 1787, had two children. Then, what? > > 2. There is a Francis getting married in Newark Upon Trent in > 1808. Could be a brother to James, time-wise. > > 3. There is a Francs who was a minor when his father died in > 1763. This father, John Nelson, was a soap maker and left a > will. Grove Moorhouse. > > Does anyone know WHY there are so few records of marriage and death > for Lambley online? And WHERE/HOW they might be > accessed? > > And if a researcher names a parish as being Grove Moorhouse, where is > that place today?? > > I will appreciate any suggestions. > > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi All Life did become harder for Shoemakers as the 1800s progressed. The typical shoemakers in the villages and towns were being replaced by the shoemakers in the factories, especially in Northampton. This made employment difficult for many. One of mine, James GRETTON with wife Ann, went from Tipton Staffs, Walsall, Staffs, Newhall Derbyshire, back to Rushall Staffs where two children were burnt to death, off to Stafford, then Birmingham, where he died, and she remarried. Some years ago a Northamptonshire Shoemakers index was started and invites to register your shoemakers were issued. It might have been on Rootsweb. I havn't seen it lately, but it may exist somewhere. perhaps Some Bright Researcher knows of it? With Regards Hilary Thomas Melbourne Australia, nee Nottingham

Although Robert HAWKSLEY was a cordwainer the children of my concern weren't his and in fact it was an error by the transcriber from ANCESTORY .COM,as pointed out by Brian binns, as this was my very first use of Ancestory.com, I am left with little faith in their work. Living in Australia means that we do have to use whatever facilities we have access to or some extra filtering of our information resources. This places more on importance of the kind people on NOTTSGEN and its kind to whom I am most thankfull and respectful of their work and willingness to share and assist Ted STEVENSON in Perth, Western Australia also nee of Nottingham

I found an entry for a Graham Marshall fgm@godshill.demon.co.uk on the surname list for Nottingham. Does anyone know him, or if he still does research? His e-mail no longer works. Thank you!

On 2013/10/07 14:07, Ted Stevenson wrote: > Although Robert HAWKSLEY was a cordwainer the children of my concern weren't > his and in fact it was an error by the transcriber from ANCESTORY .COM,as > pointed out by Brian binns, as this was my very first use of Ancestory.com, > I am left with little faith in their work. Living in Australia means that we > do have to use whatever facilities we have access to or some extra filtering > of our information resources. This places more on importance of the kind > people on NOTTSGEN and its kind to whom I am most thankfull and respectful > of their work and willingness to share and assist In fact, you should never accept any transcription without having verified it against the original - even my transcriptions for FreeREG :-) This is the way Ancestry makes money. The transcriptions are basically free, but you have to pay to see an image of the original document, and not all originals are available on-line. To give Ancestry a little pat on the back, the 1911 Census images are currently free to view and save to your own PC. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

Hi Ted With great respect, if you can show me any web site or publication transcribed from other sources that has no errors I will eat my proverbial hat It behoves researchers to *check* the original source themselves Relying on *any* transcript is a recipe for disaster Apart from that, where do you think the majority of "the kind people" find the information - Ancestry in the main Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 07/10/2013 13:07, Ted Stevenson wrote: > Although Robert HAWKSLEY was a cordwainer the children of my concern weren't > his and in fact it was an error by the transcriber from ANCESTORY .COM,as > pointed out by Brian binns, as this was my very first use of Ancestory.com, > I am left with little faith in their work. Living in Australia means that we > do have to use whatever facilities we have access to or some extra filtering > of our information resources. This places more on importance of the kind > people on NOTTSGEN and its kind to whom I am most thankfull and respectful > of their work and willingness to share and assist > > > > Ted STEVENSON in Perth, Western Australia also nee of Nottingham

Ted, As a subscriber to Ancestry I see both the transcription and the actual entry so I am unaware that you can see just the incorrect transcription but not the census sheet itself. I accept that finances don't always permit, but I would suggest that anyone who is serious about researching their family History should subscribe either to Ancestry or Find my Past. Personally I subscribe to both but would like to drop one to save money. The problem is that one site has information that the other doesn't. But as you also say Ted, there are people willing to assist our overseas friends, so continue to ask away, and I'm sure there are many on here who will help if they can. Brian Binns -----Original Message----- From: nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ted Stevenson Sent: 07 October 2013 13:08 To: NOTTSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: [NTT] (no subject) Although Robert HAWKSLEY was a cordwainer the children of my concern weren't his and in fact it was an error by the transcriber from ANCESTORY .COM,as pointed out by Brian binns, as this was my very first use of Ancestory.com, I am left with little faith in their work. Living in Australia means that we do have to use whatever facilities we have access to or some extra filtering of our information resources. This places more on importance of the kind people on NOTTSGEN and its kind to whom I am most thankfull and respectful of their work and willingness to share and assist Ted STEVENSON in Perth, Western Australia also nee of Nottingham Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am still surprised when I see the occasional error in the original primary source, too. The scribes and recorders were also human. :) And yes, a big thank you to all the volunteers. At 10:38 AM 10/7/2013, you wrote: >I find errors in spelling, transcription, & actually anything no >matter where it comes from (ancestry.com , familysearch.org, >ect.). That's why you need to check more than once source while >trying to piece things together. It's also good to leave them a >comment to correct a problem. Nothing is perfect! >Think about if you were a transcriber yourself......and look at some >of those originals. It's a difficult job. A big thank you to all >the people who do it. > >Debbie > > > From: tedstevenson@optusnet.com.au > > To: NOTTSGEN@rootsweb.com > > Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 20:07:55 +0800 > > Subject: [NTT] (no subject) > > > > Although Robert HAWKSLEY was a cordwainer the children of my > concern weren't > > his and in fact it was an error by the transcriber from ANCESTORY .COM,as > > pointed out by Brian binns, as this was my very first use of Ancestory.com, > > I am left with little faith in their work. Living in Australia > means that we > > do have to use whatever facilities we have access to or some > extra filtering > > of our information resources. This places more on importance of the kind > > people on NOTTSGEN and its kind to whom I am most thankfull and respectful > > of their work and willingness to share and assist > > > > > > > > Ted STEVENSON in Perth, Western Australia also nee of Nottingham > > > > > > > > > > > > Notts Surname List > > > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >Notts Surname List > >http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In an effort to figure out which Francis Nelson was the father of James Nelson, born 1792, supposedly in Lowdham, I am doing a study on any Francis Nelson in Nottinghamshire or Derbyshire, from 1760 to whenever each particular Francis died. It is tough going. I have used findmypast, ancestry and familysearch. These are the areas where I have found a Francis: Worksop in N., Sutton-cum-duckmanton in D, possibly Nottingham city. So far I am not venturing into Lincolnshire or Yorkshire. 1. A Francis Nelson was born in 1732 and there is a death record for him in Sutton cum Duckmanton, 1806. I don't tie him to anyone yet. BUT this area seems to have had several Francises. A prime candidate married Ann West in 1787, had two children. Then, what? 2. There is a Francis getting married in Newark Upon Trent in 1808. Could be a brother to James, time-wise. 3. There is a Francs who was a minor when his father died in 1763. This father, John Nelson, was a soap maker and left a will. Grove Moorhouse. Does anyone know WHY there are so few records of marriage and death for Lambley online? And WHERE/HOW they might be accessed? And if a researcher names a parish as being Grove Moorhouse, where is that place today?? I will appreciate any suggestions.

I find errors in spelling, transcription, & actually anything no matter where it comes from (ancestry.com , familysearch.org, ect.). That's why you need to check more than once source while trying to piece things together. It's also good to leave them a comment to correct a problem. Nothing is perfect! Think about if you were a transcriber yourself......and look at some of those originals. It's a difficult job. A big thank you to all the people who do it. Debbie > From: tedstevenson@optusnet.com.au > To: NOTTSGEN@rootsweb.com > Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 20:07:55 +0800 > Subject: [NTT] (no subject) > > Although Robert HAWKSLEY was a cordwainer the children of my concern weren't > his and in fact it was an error by the transcriber from ANCESTORY .COM,as > pointed out by Brian binns, as this was my very first use of Ancestory.com, > I am left with little faith in their work. Living in Australia means that we > do have to use whatever facilities we have access to or some extra filtering > of our information resources. This places more on importance of the kind > people on NOTTSGEN and its kind to whom I am most thankfull and respectful > of their work and willingness to share and assist > > > > Ted STEVENSON in Perth, Western Australia also nee of Nottingham > > > > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Many thanks to Brian Binns who has put me on the right track regarding my problem with Robert and Mary HAWKSLEY family on the 1891 census. Ted Stevenson in Perth, Western Australia

G'day Nottingham people; In the 1891 census, Robert HAWKSLEY and his wife, Mary nee HICKLING are recorded in Nottingham with 7 children however they are from quite different places the first son is from somewhere in Nottinghamshire, the next daughter is from Mansfield, the next son from somewhere in Nottinghamshire, the next son, again from somewhere in Notts, the next son from Mansfield, the next son is from Mansfield HOWEVER, the two youngest are from Spawich in Suffolk. Would Roberts work as a Cordwainer have caused him to travel ? but why all the way to Suffolk and back (for the 1891 census) A REQUEST: Would anyone have access to the 1881 census that would include Spawich, Suffolk and if so, could I request a "look up" Thanks Ted Stevenson Researching HAWKSLEYs of Derbyshire

On 2013/10/06 11:42, Ted Stevenson wrote: > Would Roberts work as a Cordwainer have caused him to travel ? but why all > the way to Suffolk and back (for the 1891 census) If he was an indentured journeyman, then he'd move with his master. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

But as I've advised Mike, he didn't move at all, it was merely a mis-reading of the census entries. Brian Binns -----Original Message----- From: nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mike Fry Sent: 06 October 2013 11:19 To: nottsgen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NTT] The Travelling shoemaker On 2013/10/06 11:42, Ted Stevenson wrote: > Would Roberts work as a Cordwainer have caused him to travel ? but why > all the way to Suffolk and back (for the 1891 census) If he was an indentured journeyman, then he'd move with his master. -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sorry I made an error on this email. The sons born in Spawich are Constance Jones's brothers, as is the other brother born in Mansfield. They are not her children, as I incorrectly said, but all are the children of an absent tenant - a Mr. Jones. Brian Binns -----Original Message----- From: Brian Binns [mailto:bnbinns@gmail.com] Sent: 06 October 2013 11:02 To: 'Ted Stevenson'; NOTTSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [NTT] The Travelling shoemaker Hi Ted, Oddly enough, Robert's occupation on the 1891 census is recorded as a Card Winder, with the enumerator having added "Lace" to the entry. This would appear to be an error as on the 1881 census he is a Cordwainer, as he is on the 1871. In 1881 the family were living at 7 Rushton Terrace, St. Anns, Nottingham. If you re-check the 1891 census you will see that the sons born in Spawich are not Robert's children but the sons of Constance Jones who was living next door to Robert Hawksley. She is recorded as a daughter, so presumably the actual tenant of this house, her father, was absent on Census night. She was born in Mansfield and again you have taken Ancestry's transcription which incorrectly records her as Robert Hawksley's daughter. It's always advisable to check the actual entry and not trust Ancestry's transcriptions. Brian Binns -----Original Message----- From: nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ted Stevenson Sent: 06 October 2013 10:42 To: NOTTSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: [NTT] The Travelling shoemaker G'day Nottingham people; In the 1891 census, Robert HAWKSLEY and his wife, Mary nee HICKLING are recorded in Nottingham with 7 children however they are from quite different places the first son is from somewhere in Nottinghamshire, the next daughter is from Mansfield, the next son from somewhere in Nottinghamshire, the next son, again from somewhere in Notts, the next son from Mansfield, the next son is from Mansfield HOWEVER, the two youngest are from Spawich in Suffolk. Would Roberts work as a Cordwainer have caused him to travel ? but why all the way to Suffolk and back (for the 1891 census) A REQUEST: Would anyone have access to the 1881 census that would include Spawich, Suffolk and if so, could I request a "look up" Thanks Ted Stevenson Researching HAWKSLEYs of Derbyshire Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ted, Oddly enough, Robert's occupation on the 1891 census is recorded as a Card Winder, with the enumerator having added "Lace" to the entry. This would appear to be an error as on the 1881 census he is a Cordwainer, as he is on the 1871. In 1881 the family were living at 7 Rushton Terrace, St. Anns, Nottingham. If you re-check the 1891 census you will see that the sons born in Spawich are not Robert's children but the sons of Constance Jones who was living next door to Robert Hawksley. She is recorded as a daughter, so presumably the actual tenant of this house, her father, was absent on Census night. She was born in Mansfield and again you have taken Ancestry's transcription which incorrectly records her as Robert Hawksley's daughter. It's always advisable to check the actual entry and not trust Ancestry's transcriptions. Brian Binns -----Original Message----- From: nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Ted Stevenson Sent: 06 October 2013 10:42 To: NOTTSGEN@rootsweb.com Subject: [NTT] The Travelling shoemaker G'day Nottingham people; In the 1891 census, Robert HAWKSLEY and his wife, Mary nee HICKLING are recorded in Nottingham with 7 children however they are from quite different places the first son is from somewhere in Nottinghamshire, the next daughter is from Mansfield, the next son from somewhere in Nottinghamshire, the next son, again from somewhere in Notts, the next son from Mansfield, the next son is from Mansfield HOWEVER, the two youngest are from Spawich in Suffolk. Would Roberts work as a Cordwainer have caused him to travel ? but why all the way to Suffolk and back (for the 1891 census) A REQUEST: Would anyone have access to the 1881 census that would include Spawich, Suffolk and if so, could I request a "look up" Thanks Ted Stevenson Researching HAWKSLEYs of Derbyshire Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well: for the first time Nivard, I have not understood what you mean! I do not see how you can type in the character you are looking for - I tried and just found I was looking for details on my own system Windows 7 ! If I have wanted to check a character I type "Alt Codes" into a search box. I use it a lot, daily, but that is because I have an American keyboard ($ but no £) and no accents - and I live in France which uses them lavishly. In addition it offers Greek letters - good for maths! and ↓→ and ↑ which can be useful in simple trees. Also superscript numbers - useful for footnotes etc ² and symbols such as ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ which can be used for identification I used quite a lot when writing my Huguenot family history Have fun! Jean Wood http://www.cheziris.eu/Duterrau.htm > Message du 03/10/13 00:09 > De : "Nivard Ovington" > A : nottsgen@rootsweb.com > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [NTT] Alt codes (other oddments) > > For those interested, character map can be found in Win7 (and probably > Win8) by going to start button and typing character in the search box > > In the last 15 years or so of computer use I have need character map > perhaps twice > > Alt codes, schmalt codes > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > There is an accessory Windows program, foound on both Vista and Windows/7, > > entitled Character Map, which given a Font, will show you what glyphs > > (representations of characters) are available. It will also allow you to copy > > and paste characters into something else of a text nature. > > > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Jean Wood 11 impasse Pampanie chez Perineau 17610 Chaniers France Tel: 0033(0)5.46.93.38.71 Jean Wood 11 impasse Pampanie chez Perineau 17610 Chaniers France Tel: 0033(0)5.46.93.38.71

Well: for the first time Nivard, I have not understood what you mean! I do not see how you can type in the character you are looking for - I tried and just found I was looking for details on my own system Windows 7 ! If I have wanted to check a character I type "Alt Codes" into a search box. I use it a lot, daily, but that is because I have an American keyboard ($ but no £) and no accents - and I live in France which uses them lavishly. In addition it offers Greek letters - good for maths! and ↓→ and ↑ which can be useful in simple trees. Also superscript numbers - useful for footnotes etc ² and symbols such as ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ which can be used for identification I used quite a lot when writing my Huguenot family history Have fun! Jean Wood http://www.cheziris.eu/Duterrau.htm > Message du 03/10/13 00:09 > De : "Nivard Ovington" > A : nottsgen@rootsweb.com > Copie à : > Objet : Re: [NTT] Alt codes (other oddments) > > For those interested, character map can be found in Win7 (and probably > Win8) by going to start button and typing character in the search box > > In the last 15 years or so of computer use I have need character map > perhaps twice > > Alt codes, schmalt codes > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > There is an accessory Windows program, foound on both Vista and Windows/7, > > entitled Character Map, which given a Font, will show you what glyphs > > (representations of characters) are available. It will also allow you to copy > > and paste characters into something else of a text nature. > > > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Jean Wood 11 impasse Pampanie chez Perineau 17610 Chaniers France Tel: 0033(0)5.46.93.38.71