Hi list, further Notts connections added to Yesterdays site, link below, most under Shardlow Settlement Certificates and Examinations. mike -- http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~spire/Yesterday/index.htm

Hello Listers, Does anyone have any idea if there is a connection between Eileen Joyce the concert pianist and Nottingham?  In particular with the Wheat family. Regards Robert

Hi Daivid   Thank you for your help, yes he is my chap, I am most greatful to you. I would alos like to  thank Chris and Laurie. All is found and I have him on the 1911 census too. What a great List. All the very best to you all. Pat Williams --- On Sun, 12/4/09, Ddgretton@aol.com <Ddgretton@aol.com> wrote: From: Ddgretton@aol.com <Ddgretton@aol.com> Subject: Re: [NTT] Tom Heron/Herron Look up please To: p.williams352@btinternet.com Date: Sunday, 12 April, 2009, 7:03 PM Pat   I believe that I have traced your man down in 1901, along with his wife Annie - as is her name in 1911 too.(incidentally he does give Hull as his place of birth again in 1911).   Thomas' probable marriage is therefore;   Marriages Dec 1891   (>99%) Hall  Annie    Brentford  3a 84    Heron  Thomas    Brentford  3a 84     1901 census   Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 1202; Folio: 89; Page: 52.   I think "Eskholm" is most likely to be Eskham which is very near to Marsh Chapel, the place of birth of your Tom's mother - so that sort of fits in.   David in Ilkeston   In a message dated 12/04/2009 14:45:25 GMT Standard Time, lcaron0822@rogers.com writes: This is the result...born about 1885...but I'm sending you the image off list anyway for your perusal Exact Search Results - New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 You searched for Tom Heron from 1869 - 2009  Refine your search  Tom Heron 21 Jul 1909 abt 1885  Colon  British (English)  Clyde  Regards, Laurie   -----Original Message----- From: nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of P WILLIAMS Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 9:30 AM To: nottsgen Subject: [NTT] Tom Heron/Herron Look up please Could SKS with full access to Ancestry have a look on the New York Passenger List please, It just gives the 1 name.   Born Hull/Sculcoates Yorkshire 1869 can't find a marriage or death for him. He was a Greengrocer living in Acton Middlesex on 1891 census with his mother and stepfather. He appears to have disappeared. I have checked various spellings.   All the best.     Pat Williams Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Chris   For some reason your mail went into my spam folder, so I do apologise for the delay in getting back too you.   Thank you so much for the look up you have done for me and that extra look on the 1911 census...It appears to be my Tom Heron in Brentford Middlesex....Can't wait to look at it. Brilliant! He has obvioulsy not put down he was born in Hull, we will see. All the best to you Pat Williams --- On Sun, 12/4/09, Chris Andrew <candrew@kingston.net> wrote: From: Chris Andrew <candrew@kingston.net> Subject: Re: [NTT] Tom Heron/Herron Look up please To: "P WILLIAMS" <p.williams352@btinternet.com> Date: Sunday, 12 April, 2009, 2:49 PM Hi Pat: It looks like this isn't your man Chris New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Tom Heron Name:     Tom Heron Arrival Date:     21 Jul 1909 Estimated Birth Year:     abt 1885 Age:     24 Gender:     Male Port of Departure:     Colon Ethnicity/Race- /Nationality:     British (English) Ship Name:     Clyde Search Ship Database:     Search the Clyde in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database Port of Arrival:     New York, New York Nativity:     Scotland Line:     19 Microfilm Serial:     T715 Microfilm Roll:     T715_1305 Birth Location:     Scotland Birth Location Other:     wjtown Page Number:     85 P WILLIAMS wrote: Could SKS with full access to Ancestry have a look on the New York Passenger List please, It just gives the 1 name.   Born Hull/Sculcoates Yorkshire 1869 can't find a marriage or death for him. He was a Greengrocer living in Acton Middlesex on 1891 census with his mother and stepfather. He appears to have disappeared. I have checked various spellings.   All the best.     Pat Williams Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.11.53/2054 - Release Date: 04/11/09 10:51:00

Hi, The Mill at Lowdham was quite famous for 'hiring' children from London. See the attached web link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Blincoe cheers Pete in Mansfield ----- Original Message ----- From: <Aliceclarke8@aol.com> To: <p.williams352@btinternet.com> Cc: <nottsgen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [NTT] Marriage of John CLARK and Sarah possibly BROUGHTON > Thank you very much for your interest.I will try and set out clearly > what I > know and at the end the really intractable problem which I can actually > see > no way of solving. I have known about the John CLARK/ Sarah LOCKTON > marriage > at Car Colston and for a while I thought it was the correct one. Then I > was > given a copy of some notes made by an uncle of my husband's in which he > stated categorically that John's Sarah was Sarah Broughton. He has been > dead 30 > years so I can't ring him up and ask him and of course at that time > family > research was much harder than it is today. > > Those of John and Sarah's children whom I know definitely about were all > born in Hawksworth and baptised there, There were Mary 1800, John 1804 > Elizabeth 1806 Hannah 1810 Ann 1813 William 1814 and Emma 1820. William > was my > husband's great-grandfather and for obvious reasons I know most about > him.The > note also refer to a Richard and a Thomas with no indication of birth > dates. > They might fit in to 1798/9 or to the years between 1814 and 1820, > Clearly none > of these events will yield certificates > > In the 1841 census John and Sarah were living in Lowdham.With them were > William 25 Emma 20 and her daughter Isabellar (sic) 4 months. All are > shown as > born in the county. Eventually Emma married Thomas COOPER, framework > knitter, > and Isabella is with them in 1851 together with their other children > although I have found no trace of her after that.Unfortunately both John > and Sarah > died before the 1851 Census. They were buried at Epperstone Sarah > 23/11/1848 > and John 16/2/1851 so there is no way of establishing John's birthplace. > If > only he had lived another two months! > > William married Mercy HOBSON from Gleadless in the West Riding at > Epperstone > on 4/10/1842 and I do have the certificate for that and their children's > birth certificates and William and Mercy's Death Certificates. Mercy is > sometimes wrongly transcribed as Mary but the christian name appears to > be a > peculiarity of the Hobson family (who seem to have been originally from > from Carlton > on Lindrick). > > In the 1851 Census William and Mercy are in Lowdham John 7, Hannah 5 and > George 2. William was a gardener and so was at least one of his brothers. > In > 1861 they are back in Epperstone with with George 12, Gershom 8, Sarah > Ann 6 > and William 3. Hannah has gone into service and is still in Lowdham. > Gershom sadly died in his teens of what is described on his death > certificate as > "common fever 15 days". My technical advisor says probably septicaemia. > The > family was briefly in East Markham but by 1871 they have moved near to > Mercy's > original home and are in Ecclesall Bierlow. With them are John 27, Sarah > Ann 16 William 14 and Walter Hobson 8 (my husband's grandfather). Mercy > died on > 26/11/1879 and William on 13/10/1888. I hope this is enough detail to > set > the family in context. I could supply more if needed. > > I come now to the real problem, not so much a brick wall as a mountain. > According to the uncle whose note I referred to earlier there was a letter > written by John Bishop CLARKE son of William and Mercy's John. This must > have been > written at the end of the nineteenth century, so long after the events > referred to but also a long time ago now. I don't know anyone who has > ever > actually seen it, so it is something like Chinese Whispers. However > apparently the > original John Clark born around 1771 was the son of a shoemaker in London > who was quite prosperous. His father died before he was fully adult and > his > father's brother took all the money and threw him out of the business. > Now > family quarrels about money are common enough but this story has always > left me > with two questions. If John was old enough to be thrown out, he would in > those days have already known something about shoemaking. Why didn't he > get a > shoemaking job with someone else? The other much bigger question is why > did he > move all the way to Notts in a pre-public transport world? There must be > hundreds of places within twenty or thirty miles of London where he > could have > settled and never seen his uncle again. You will observe that in 1841 > John > is recorded as born in county but there are frequent errors in such > statements. The only explanation that I can think of is that the > shoemaking brothers > had come originally from Notts and he made his way back to whatever > family was > here. > > All that said, I should be most grateful for any suggestions > In hope > Best wishes > Alice Clarke > Oakham, Rutland > > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.11.53/2054 - Release Date: 04/11/09 10:51:00

Possible/probable 1901 census image being sent off list David in Ilkeston In a message dated 12/04/2009 14:45:25 GMT Standard Time, lcaron0822@rogers.com writes: This is the result...born about 1885...but I'm sending you the image off list anyway for your perusal Exact Search Results - New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 You searched for Tom Heron from 1869 - 2009 Refine your search Tom Heron 21 Jul 1909 abt 1885 Colon British (English) Clyde Regards, Laurie -----Original Message----- From: nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of P WILLIAMS Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 9:30 AM To: nottsgen Subject: [NTT] Tom Heron/Herron Look up please Could SKS with full access to Ancestry have a look on the New York Passenger List please, It just gives the 1 name. Born Hull/Sculcoates Yorkshire 1869 can't find a marriage or death for him. He was a Greengrocer living in Acton Middlesex on 1891 census with his mother and stepfather. He appears to have disappeared. I have checked various spellings. All the best. Pat Williams Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Laurie   Thank you for your quick response and for sending me the origianl off list, sadly he is not mine, but that eliminates onother avenue. I wonder what happened to the chap... Thank once again Happy Easter to you. Pat Williams --- On Sun, 12/4/09, Laurie Caron <lcaron0822@rogers.com> wrote: From: Laurie Caron <lcaron0822@rogers.com> Subject: RE: [NTT] Tom Heron/Herron Look up please To: "'P WILLIAMS'" <p.williams352@btinternet.com>, "'nottsgen'" <nottsgen-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, 12 April, 2009, 2:44 PM This is the result...born about 1885...but I'm sending you the image off list anyway for your perusal Exact Search Results - New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 You searched for Tom Heron from 1869 - 2009 Refine your search Tom Heron 21 Jul 1909 abt 1885 Colon British (English) Clyde Regards, Laurie -----Original Message----- From: nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of P WILLIAMS Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 9:30 AM To: nottsgen Subject: [NTT] Tom Heron/Herron Look up please Could SKS with full access to Ancestry have a look on the New York Passenger List please, It just gives the 1 name.   Born Hull/Sculcoates Yorkshire 1869 can't find a marriage or death for him. He was a Greengrocer living in Acton Middlesex on 1891 census with his mother and stepfather. He appears to have disappeared. I have checked various spellings.   All the best.     Pat Williams Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you very much for the most interesting information. I must try to see which of them I can fit in and will try to report back Best wishes Alice Clarke Oakham Rutland

Thank you for all your efforts. One of the problems with called Clark/e is that you never know which ones have some relevance. (My other main area of research at the moment is the Nutter family of North East Lancashire, my son in law's family. While Nutter may have some disadvantages as a surname at least each time you find one you can be pretty sure that eventually he/she will fit in somewhere!) I cannot be sure why they chose to marry in Barkestone. I will try to get a copy of the entry of marriage but I don't expect it to throw much additional light. I hope the CRO in Leicester will do it by phone but if I have to I will go in. If she is the same Sarah baptised in 1773 in Hawksworth then she certainly wasn't under age. When William Clark of Lowdham married Mercy Hobson in 1842 in Epperstone her family was at home in Gleadless in the West Riding, but Mercy was in service in the house of a local merchant and presumably that was why she married there. It may be the same for Sarah The Leics CRO should also be able to provide something about the Enderby records. I will report back if I manage to make progress. Thank you once again and best wishes Alice Clarke Oakham Rutland

Yes, of course, I've often seen Blincow's testimony quoted in other books but I don't think I have ever read it in its entirety. Hence I missed the significance for the Clark/e family. The only downside is that if the Overseers of the Poor in London sent John to Lowdham it does reduce still further the chances of tracing his family any further back since I imagine the records they kept were pretty limited. Thank you very much Best wishes Alice Clarke Oakhan, Rutland

Could SKS with full access to Ancestry have a look on the New York Passenger List please, It just gives the 1 name.   Born Hull/Sculcoates Yorkshire 1869 can't find a marriage or death for him. He was a Greengrocer living in Acton Middlesex on 1891 census with his mother and stepfather. He appears to have disappeared. I have checked various spellings.   All the best.     Pat Williams

Thank you for all your help. Yes I have John's Death Certificate but like all from this period it doesn't tell you much, certainly not where he was born. Just Agricultural Labourer, cause of death senile decay (before the period when a doctor was required) and William was the informant. I know about the Broughton extracted records and since there is somebody on Ancestry who has a public tree which links into this family, I may contact him and see if he can add any light. I think the suggestion by Peter Wright that John was sent up from London as a pauper apprentice to the mill at Lowdham is absolutely brilliant. It fits in very well with the little we know. The only disadvantage is that I am not likely to to get back much further because I doubt if the Overseers of Poor kept much in the way of records. However, I would never rule out a Notts birth completely so sooner or later I can see I shall have to visit Notts CRO. I fear my grandchildren, only one of whom is actually a Clarke, may have to accept that this is as much as they can hope to know about this part of their family. I can do better in others. I wil report back if and when I make progress. Anyway, thank you again for your help and best wishes Alice Clarke Oakham Rutland

Hi Listers. The old Meadows web site first went live on the web on 1st January 2003. Since then there have been over31,000 visitors to the site. Recently, however, many people have experienced difficulty in accessing the site so as a result I decided to remodel the site completely. The first phase of that is now on-line and ready to be seen. I have many pages to add over the next few weeks. Hopefully the new menu should work correctly although some of the links are not yet live. As with previous editions of the site, if you have any photographs or memories that you would like put on the site, if you would like to get in touch with someone who lived in the old Meadows or if you just want to find out a bit of your family history let me know and I'll put it on the site. Regards Paul. Visit my web site for ex-residents of the old Meadows area of Nottingham at http://theoldmeadows.co.uk

Hi Alice   I would be inclined to go with the Uncle's note and except that John married Sarah Broughton just over the border from Hawksworth.   Has for John being the son of a London shoemaker and the argument over money and that he was thrown out at a young age; there is no clear evidence to support this, just hearsay.   I was always told to go with what you know, not what you don't know. Have you got John's death certificate? It clearly says he is born in Nottinghamshire on the 1841, but we have to have an open mind after all it's the 1800's we are talking about. I would be tempted to follow the possibility of his birth in Notts.   Sarah Broughton: There is a baptism on LDS 26 SEP 1773 Hawksworth, Nottingham, England and if you use the batch number there is about 8 more siblings. This you might have got already. Parents Michael and Mary.   The only thing that is left for you to do is to get a copy of the marriage from the local Library where they married, this might give you the valid information you are looking for.   Hope this helps. Best wishes and good hunting. Pat Williams --- On Sat, 11/4/09, Aliceclarke8@aol.com <Aliceclarke8@aol.com> wrote: From: Aliceclarke8@aol.com <Aliceclarke8@aol.com> Subject: Re: [NTT] Marriage of John CLARK and Sarah possibly BROUGHTON To: p.williams352@btinternet.com Cc: nottsgen@rootsweb.com Date: Saturday, 11 April, 2009, 8:03 PM Thank you  very much for your interest.I will try and set out clearly what I know and at the end the really intractable problem which I can actually see no way of solving.  I have known about the John CLARK/ Sarah LOCKTON marriage at Car Colston and for a while I thought it was the correct one. Then I was given a copy of some notes made by an uncle of my husband's in which he stated categorically that John's Sarah was Sarah Broughton.  He has been dead 30 years so I can't ring him up and ask him and of course at that time family research was much harder than it is today.   Those of John and Sarah's children whom I know definitely about were all born in Hawksworth and baptised there,  There were Mary 1800, John 1804 Elizabeth 1806 Hannah 1810  Ann 1813 William 1814 and Emma 1820.  William was my husband's great-grandfather and for obvious reasons I know most about him.The note also refer to a Richard and a Thomas with no indication of birth dates.  They might fit in to 1798/9 or to the years between 1814 and 1820, Clearly none of these events will yield certificates   In the 1841 census John and Sarah were living in Lowdham.With them were William 25  Emma 20 and her daughter Isabellar (sic) 4 months. All are shown as born in the county.  Eventually Emma married Thomas COOPER, framework knitter, and Isabella is with them in 1851 together with their other children although I have found no trace of her after that.Unfortunately both John and Sarah died before the 1851 Census.  They were buried at Epperstone Sarah 23/11/1848 and John 16/2/1851 so there is no way of establishing John's birthplace.  If only he had lived another two months!   William married Mercy HOBSON from Gleadless in the West Riding at Epperstone on 4/10/1842 and I do have the certificate for that and their children's birth certificates and William and Mercy's Death Certificates.  Mercy is sometimes wrongly transcribed as Mary but the christian name appears to be a peculiarity of the Hobson family (who seem to have been originally from from Carlton on Lindrick).   In the 1851 Census William and Mercy are in Lowdham John 7, Hannah 5 and George 2.  William was a gardener and so was at least one of his brothers. In 1861 they are back in Epperstone with  with George 12, Gershom 8, Sarah Ann 6  and William 3.  Hannah has gone into service and is still in Lowdham.  Gershom sadly died in his teens of what is described on his death certificate as "common fever 15 days".  My technical advisor says probably septicaemia. The family was briefly in East Markham but by 1871 they have moved  near to Mercy's original home and are in Ecclesall Bierlow.  With them are John 27, Sarah Ann 16 William 14 and Walter Hobson 8 (my husband's grandfather). Mercy died on 26/11/1879 and William on 13/10/1888.  I hope this is enough detail to set the family in context.  I could supply more if needed.   I come now to the real problem, not so much a brick wall as a mountain. According to the uncle whose note I referred to earlier there was a letter written by John Bishop CLARKE son of William and Mercy's John.  This must have been written at the end of the nineteenth century, so long after the events referred to but also a long time ago now.  I don't know anyone who has ever actually seen it, so it is something like Chinese Whispers.  However apparently the original John Clark born around 1771 was the son of a shoemaker in London who was quite prosperous. His father died before he was fully adult and his father's brother took all the money and threw him out of the business.  Now family quarrels about money are common enough but this story has always left me with two questions.  If John was old enough to be thrown out, he would in those days have already known something about shoemaking.  Why didn't he get a shoemaking job with someone else?  The other much bigger question is why did he move all the way to Notts in a pre-public transport world? There must be hundreds of places  within twenty or thirty miles of London where he could have settled and never seen his uncle again.  You will observe that in 1841 John is recorded as born in county but there are frequent errors in such statements. The only explanation that I can think of is that the shoemaking brothers had come originally from Notts and he made his way back to whatever family was here.   All that said, I should be most grateful for any suggestions In hope Best wishes Alice Clarke Oakham, Rutland   

This is the result...born about 1885...but I'm sending you the image off list anyway for your perusal Exact Search Results - New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 You searched for Tom Heron from 1869 - 2009 Refine your search Tom Heron 21 Jul 1909 abt 1885 Colon British (English) Clyde Regards, Laurie -----Original Message----- From: nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:nottsgen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of P WILLIAMS Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 9:30 AM To: nottsgen Subject: [NTT] Tom Heron/Herron Look up please Could SKS with full access to Ancestry have a look on the New York Passenger List please, It just gives the 1 name.   Born Hull/Sculcoates Yorkshire 1869 can't find a marriage or death for him. He was a Greengrocer living in Acton Middlesex on 1891 census with his mother and stepfather. He appears to have disappeared. I have checked various spellings.   All the best.     Pat Williams Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For about 20/25 years we house swapped for our holidays with a national women's group. Living as we then did in Wigan, we went anywhere we could persuade people to come to Wigan, not normally on most people's holiday list. One spring (about 22 years ago) we achieved a swap to Alloway, Robert Burn's birthplace, where we enjoyed a lovely Easter. It was the first time we had ever seen people hunting Easter eggs in gardens, and we also went to the local church, where the minister suddenly ducked down in the pulpit and emerged wearing large pink card rabbits' ears. After the first startled giggles from his congregation, he then delivered a superb brief talk on the rabbit as symbol of resurrection. Neither we parents nor our four children, then aged 8-17, are likely to forget it. Happy Easter all! Jean > Message du 11/04/09 20:51 > De : Gpwilliamsgpw@aol.com > A : p.williams352@btinternet.com > Copie à : nottsgen-L@rootsweb.com > Objet : Re: [NTT] Easter & Rabbits - off topic > > > What is the origin of the Easter bunny? > > Like the origin of Easter, the origin of the Easter Bunny has roots that > go back to pre-Christian, Anglo-Saxon history. The holiday was originally a > pagan celebration that worshipped the goddess Eastre. She was the goddess > of fertility and springtime and her earthly symbol was the rabbit. > > Thus the pre-Christian Anglo-Saxons worshipped the rabbit believing it to > be Eastre's earthly incarnation. > > When the Anglo-Saxons were converted to Christianity, the pagan holiday, > which occurred around the same time as the Christian memorial of Jesus' > resurrection from the dead, was combined with the Christian celebration and > given the name Easter. > > Originally, there were some very pagan practices that went along with the > Easter celebration. Today, Easter is often commercialized, with all the > focus on eggs, the Easter bunny, etc. > > Because of this, many churches are starting to refer to it as Resurrection > Day. > > Graham Williams > > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Jean Wood 11 impasse Pampanie chez Perineau 17610 Chaniers France Tel: 0033(0)5.46.93.38.71

Good history lesson, Graham. The French have a more accurate name for the holiday -- Paques, from the Latin word for Passover. That is the day when Jesus was originally put to death, so our Easter or Paques to this day usually closely coincides with the Jewish holiday. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: [NTT] Easter & Rabbits - off topic Like the origin of Easter, the origin of the Easter Bunny has roots that go back to pre-Christian, Anglo-Saxon history. The holiday was originally a pagan celebration that worshipped the goddess Eastre. She was the goddess of fertility and springtime and her earthly symbol was the rabbit. Thus the pre-Christian Anglo-Saxons worshipped the rabbit believing it to be Eastre's earthly incarnation. When the Anglo-Saxons were converted to Christianity, the pagan holiday, which occurred around the same time as the Christian memorial of Jesus' resurrection from the dead, was combined with the Christian celebration and given the name Easter. Originally, there were some very pagan practices that went along with the Easter celebration. Today, Easter is often commercialized, with all the focus on eggs, the Easter bunny, etc. Because of this, many churches are starting to refer to it as Resurrection Day. Graham Williams Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NOTTSGEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Actually a double Yippee -thank you very much! First for finding the marriage which I had been seeking for a while. I hadn't thought of going out of Notts altho the distance isn't actually very great. Second because the village involved is only about 25 miles from where I live now. Most unusual as it's hundreds of miles as often as not! When John and Sarah's more recent descendants have returned in about a week to their respective schools and nurseries I wiil go over and at least have a look at the church, Thank you once again Best wishes Alice Clarke Oakham Rutland

Thank you very much for your interest.I will try and set out clearly what I know and at the end the really intractable problem which I can actually see no way of solving. I have known about the John CLARK/ Sarah LOCKTON marriage at Car Colston and for a while I thought it was the correct one. Then I was given a copy of some notes made by an uncle of my husband's in which he stated categorically that John's Sarah was Sarah Broughton. He has been dead 30 years so I can't ring him up and ask him and of course at that time family research was much harder than it is today. Those of John and Sarah's children whom I know definitely about were all born in Hawksworth and baptised there, There were Mary 1800, John 1804 Elizabeth 1806 Hannah 1810 Ann 1813 William 1814 and Emma 1820. William was my husband's great-grandfather and for obvious reasons I know most about him.The note also refer to a Richard and a Thomas with no indication of birth dates. They might fit in to 1798/9 or to the years between 1814 and 1820, Clearly none of these events will yield certificates In the 1841 census John and Sarah were living in Lowdham.With them were William 25 Emma 20 and her daughter Isabellar (sic) 4 months. All are shown as born in the county. Eventually Emma married Thomas COOPER, framework knitter, and Isabella is with them in 1851 together with their other children although I have found no trace of her after that.Unfortunately both John and Sarah died before the 1851 Census. They were buried at Epperstone Sarah 23/11/1848 and John 16/2/1851 so there is no way of establishing John's birthplace. If only he had lived another two months! William married Mercy HOBSON from Gleadless in the West Riding at Epperstone on 4/10/1842 and I do have the certificate for that and their children's birth certificates and William and Mercy's Death Certificates. Mercy is sometimes wrongly transcribed as Mary but the christian name appears to be a peculiarity of the Hobson family (who seem to have been originally from from Carlton on Lindrick). In the 1851 Census William and Mercy are in Lowdham John 7, Hannah 5 and George 2. William was a gardener and so was at least one of his brothers. In 1861 they are back in Epperstone with with George 12, Gershom 8, Sarah Ann 6 and William 3. Hannah has gone into service and is still in Lowdham. Gershom sadly died in his teens of what is described on his death certificate as "common fever 15 days". My technical advisor says probably septicaemia. The family was briefly in East Markham but by 1871 they have moved near to Mercy's original home and are in Ecclesall Bierlow. With them are John 27, Sarah Ann 16 William 14 and Walter Hobson 8 (my husband's grandfather). Mercy died on 26/11/1879 and William on 13/10/1888. I hope this is enough detail to set the family in context. I could supply more if needed. I come now to the real problem, not so much a brick wall as a mountain. According to the uncle whose note I referred to earlier there was a letter written by John Bishop CLARKE son of William and Mercy's John. This must have been written at the end of the nineteenth century, so long after the events referred to but also a long time ago now. I don't know anyone who has ever actually seen it, so it is something like Chinese Whispers. However apparently the original John Clark born around 1771 was the son of a shoemaker in London who was quite prosperous. His father died before he was fully adult and his father's brother took all the money and threw him out of the business. Now family quarrels about money are common enough but this story has always left me with two questions. If John was old enough to be thrown out, he would in those days have already known something about shoemaking. Why didn't he get a shoemaking job with someone else? The other much bigger question is why did he move all the way to Notts in a pre-public transport world? There must be hundreds of places within twenty or thirty miles of London where he could have settled and never seen his uncle again. You will observe that in 1841 John is recorded as born in county but there are frequent errors in such statements. The only explanation that I can think of is that the shoemaking brothers had come originally from Notts and he made his way back to whatever family was here. All that said, I should be most grateful for any suggestions In hope Best wishes Alice Clarke Oakham, Rutland

What is the origin of the Easter bunny? Like the origin of Easter, the origin of the Easter Bunny has roots that go back to pre-Christian, Anglo-Saxon history. The holiday was originally a pagan celebration that worshipped the goddess Eastre. She was the goddess of fertility and springtime and her earthly symbol was the rabbit. Thus the pre-Christian Anglo-Saxons worshipped the rabbit believing it to be Eastre's earthly incarnation. When the Anglo-Saxons were converted to Christianity, the pagan holiday, which occurred around the same time as the Christian memorial of Jesus' resurrection from the dead, was combined with the Christian celebration and given the name Easter. Originally, there were some very pagan practices that went along with the Easter celebration. Today, Easter is often commercialized, with all the focus on eggs, the Easter bunny, etc. Because of this, many churches are starting to refer to it as Resurrection Day. Graham Williams