Hi all, yesterday while photographing some memorial stones at St Mary's Nottingham for a friend in America I was approached by a young lady who wanted to know what I was doing. To cut a long story short, the lady's maiden name was GIBSON and her mother was researching the family tree. The memorial stones were GIBSON and my friend in America is researching the family in Nottingham. The problem is, I never thought to ask the lady for her mothers name and address. ( I know she might not have given it me anyway) If the ladies mother is on the list ( she will know who she is because her daughter was telephoning her to tell her about the stones as we left) and she could email me I will put her in touch. It might not be the same GIBSON family but you never know. Apologies to anyone not interested Regards Paul

Adding to Ruth's comments, there are many variations in family habits as far as baptism is concerned: I have one line where the new baby was regularly baptised within 10 days-4 weeks after birth, but in one family of 4, the first baby followed this pattern. The second child was born at the same time as there were a couple of family deaths and a marrige, so he did not get baptised until the third was born and those two were baptised together. We cannot find the baptism for the 4th child but in 1818, 14 months after her birth, there is a special handwritten birth certificate for the baby wih an unrelated man (possibly a doctor) and her grandmother who were witnesses as "present at her birth!" I have never seen another like this from that time. In another family, five of the family were all baptised on the same day 15 January 1828. My 2x greatgrandmother was 3; the oldest child was 12 and the youngest 5 weeks - all had their birth dates written in the margin. Jean Wood > > Pat, don't mistake BAPTISM date for BIRTH date ... they are not usually the > same date! > It is not unusual to have a child baptised 14 months after his birth. > > There is no reason why this record could not be for your grgrpa. > > Ruth Burkholder > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 13:22:14 -0700 > From: Pat Connors <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [NTT] Carter > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > My gr grandfather and his family emigrated to the Niagara Falls/St > Catherines area of Canada from Nottinghamshire County. On his > gravestone, it says he was born Nov 23, 1789 in Toton, Derbyshire, > however, Toton is in Attenborough Parish in Nottinghamshire County. It > is my understanding that the boundaries changed which moved Toton from > one county to another. > > Yesterday, I looked at the film yesterday for Attenborough Parish and > found a William Carter baptised March 17, 1791 (it was hard to read > March so month could be different but year and date were clear). While > the record for William did not give the residence of the family, the > parents had a number of other children and in a couple of their > baptisms, it was noted they lived in Toton. > > My question...Is this birth in 1791 my great grandfather? It is only > two years off the date on his gravestone but the month and day is > different which gives me hesitation. Would love other opinions. > > -- > Pat Connors, Sacramento, CA > http://www.connorsgenealogy.com > > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 11 Sep 2011 at 14:09, Jean Wood wrote: > Adding to Ruth's comments, there are many variations in family habits > as far as baptism is concerned: > > I have one line where the new baby was regularly baptised within 10 > days-4 weeks after birth, but in one family of 4, the first baby > followed this pattern. The second child was born at the same time as > there were a couple of family deaths and a marrige, so he did not get > baptised until the third was born and those two were baptised > together. > > We cannot find the baptism for the 4th child but in 1818, 14 months > after her birth, there is a special handwritten birth certificate for > the baby wih an unrelated man (possibly a doctor) and her grandmother > who were witnesses as "present at her birth!" I have never seen > another like this from that time. > > In another family, five of the family were all baptised on the same > day 15 January 1828. My 2x greatgrandmother was 3; the oldest child > was 12 and the youngest 5 weeks - all had their birth dates written in > the margin.> Multiple baptisms of several children on the same day were extremely common. I have one (in Gloucestershire, not Nottinghamshire) where two brothers each baptised two children - the four youngsters being first cousins - at the same independent chapel on the same day in 1833. Their later given ages in censuses suggest they were of differing ages up to about five. I've also got another one in Yorkshire where several were baptised together in the 1820s but it was apparent from later censuses that one, my gt-gt-grandfather, was about 10 when baptism took place. So many newcomers to family history seem to have remarkably fixed ideas about baptism. They should shed them quickly, otherwise they will end up being totally misled! There were, and are, absolutely no hard and fast rules about christening. Yes, some families were rigid about baptising children within a few weeks of birth, others were much less so and had several done as a "job lot". I've even seen messages from beginners who seem to think that because three children were baptised together at the same church on the same day, then they must have been triplets!!! Another point to bear in mind is that some families were vague about their religion and swapped in and out of the Anglican church and Nonconformist chapels quite regularly. They might have baptised some of their children in the CofE and others at a Methodist chapel, or some other Nonconformist denomination. And what about Baptists who didn't believe in infant baptism and baptised children when they were old enough to understand it? Moreover, there were couples who never had their children baptised at all. It wasn't compulsory! As Jean says, there were many variations in baptism and there were no hard and fast rules. You must look at ALL possibilities. I am always advising beginners and newcomers to genealogy to cast off their mindset of today and examine the facts about their ancestors from the documented records. Just because you think your family have always been CofE, Roman Catholics, Nonconformists, or whatever, it does NOT mean that they always were! They may well have changed from what they are today. I recall one classic message in which someone said "My ancestors were always Salvation Army"! And before the Salvation Army was founded? She had no answer to that because she hadn't thought of it! We can only ever examine the evidence it, interpret it as best we can and remind ourselves that we cannot know what was going on in the minds and lives of our ancestors. Best always to keep an open mind. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Hi, I cannot help you on your specific enquiry, but the River Erewash has been the southern boundary between Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire since time immemorial. Toton is and always has been to the east of this boundary and definitely in Notts. I have never heard of Toton ever being in Derbyshire. Brian Binns -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Pat Connors Sent: 10 September 2011 21:22 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NTT] Carter My gr grandfather and his family emigrated to the Niagara Falls/St Catherines area of Canada from Nottinghamshire County. On his gravestone, it says he was born Nov 23, 1789 in Toton, Derbyshire, however, Toton is in Attenborough Parish in Nottinghamshire County. It is my understanding that the boundaries changed which moved Toton from one county to another. Yesterday, I looked at the film yesterday for Attenborough Parish and found a William Carter baptised March 17, 1791 (it was hard to read March so month could be different but year and date were clear). While the record for William did not give the residence of the family, the parents had a number of other children and in a couple of their baptisms, it was noted they lived in Toton. My question...Is this birth in 1791 my great grandfather? It is only two years off the date on his gravestone but the month and day is different which gives me hesitation. Would love other opinions. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento, CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3888 - Release Date: 09/10/11 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3888 - Release Date: 09/10/11 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3889 - Release Date: 09/10/11

Pat, don't mistake BAPTISM date for BIRTH date ... they are not usually the same date! It is not unusual to have a child baptised 14 months after his birth. There is no reason why this record could not be for your grgrpa. Ruth Burkholder Message: 1 Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 13:22:14 -0700 From: Pat Connors <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [NTT] Carter To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed My gr grandfather and his family emigrated to the Niagara Falls/St Catherines area of Canada from Nottinghamshire County. On his gravestone, it says he was born Nov 23, 1789 in Toton, Derbyshire, however, Toton is in Attenborough Parish in Nottinghamshire County. It is my understanding that the boundaries changed which moved Toton from one county to another. Yesterday, I looked at the film yesterday for Attenborough Parish and found a William Carter baptised March 17, 1791 (it was hard to read March so month could be different but year and date were clear). While the record for William did not give the residence of the family, the parents had a number of other children and in a couple of their baptisms, it was noted they lived in Toton. My question...Is this birth in 1791 my great grandfather? It is only two years off the date on his gravestone but the month and day is different which gives me hesitation. Would love other opinions. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento, CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

Pat I am also researching the Carter line but in Staffordshire. As for the date even on my Step father a military headstone they have the dates all wrong. Day of birth year of birth. He was a wonderful father so I posted on the site where his headstone is the correct date. I find many a few years off. Jo-Ann In a message dated 9/10/2011 1:23:52 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: My gr grandfather and his family emigrated to the Niagara Falls/St Catherines area of Canada from Nottinghamshire County. On his gravestone, it says he was born Nov 23, 1789 in Toton, Derbyshire, however, Toton is in Attenborough Parish in Nottinghamshire County. It is my understanding that the boundaries changed which moved Toton from one county to another. Yesterday, I looked at the film yesterday for Attenborough Parish and found a William Carter baptised March 17, 1791 (it was hard to read March so month could be different but year and date were clear). While the record for William did not give the residence of the family, the parents had a number of other children and in a couple of their baptisms, it was noted they lived in Toton. My question...Is this birth in 1791 my great grandfather? It is only two years off the date on his gravestone but the month and day is different which gives me hesitation. Would love other opinions. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento, CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

My gr grandfather and his family emigrated to the Niagara Falls/St Catherines area of Canada from Nottinghamshire County. On his gravestone, it says he was born Nov 23, 1789 in Toton, Derbyshire, however, Toton is in Attenborough Parish in Nottinghamshire County. It is my understanding that the boundaries changed which moved Toton from one county to another. Yesterday, I looked at the film yesterday for Attenborough Parish and found a William Carter baptised March 17, 1791 (it was hard to read March so month could be different but year and date were clear). While the record for William did not give the residence of the family, the parents had a number of other children and in a couple of their baptisms, it was noted they lived in Toton. My question...Is this birth in 1791 my great grandfather? It is only two years off the date on his gravestone but the month and day is different which gives me hesitation. Would love other opinions. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento, CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

Hi everyone, I have found on Ancestry a record of London & North Eastern Railway Staff employed at St Neots (Cambridge) Station on 31 Oct 1939 - surnames mentioned are- AYRES, BARRINGER, COBBOLD, ELLIOT, GAY, GEORGE (mine), MAILING, MARKHAM, PAYNE, ROSEBLADE and SUTER. My grandfather Frank GEORGE was the Stationmaster and joined the Railways in Retford, Ntts in 1897 (this being the Ntts connection). If anyone would like a copy or further details please email me, happy hunting Annette WATSON

On 31/08/2011 15:39, The Quineys wrote: > Thursday 8th - Sunday 11th September is the annual Heritage Open Days 'weekend' when historic sites, buildings, etc are open to the public. > Some are open throughout the year but for this wekend only, there is no admission charge. > > For Nottinghamshire details ... > http://www.heritageopendays.org.uk/directory/county/Nottinghamshire > > > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sorry to use the list for this purpose but I received an email from John with a family history query - John attempts to contact you via your email address results in the following: <[email protected]>: Remote host said: 550 RCPT TO:<[email protected]> Relaying not allowed - please use SMTP AUTH [RCPT_TO] I have emailed Notts AO to confim my information on the marriage in question and will keep you informed John M

I have posted today to the Genbrit list, in a thread about people with "seasoning" names, the following message. I suddenly thought it might be of interest to this list as well. I have in my files a copy certificate for the following marriage..... At Basford Register Office on 5 December 1899... Thomas SALT, 22, bachelor, railway fireman to Edith Mary PEPPER, 19, spinster I kid ye not! The respective fathers, Samuel Salt and Thomas Pepper, were both farmers. Did they arrange the marriage of their children, I wonder, for a joke over a couple of beers? I published this gem in my column "Roy's Ramblings" in the former Practical Family History magazine and commented: "I bet they made seasoned parents"! In the 1911 census they were still in Basford RD, at Netherfield, and had three little Salts. Does anyone recognise and "own" this family? I am happy to send a copy of the marriage certificate to anyone who claims them. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Tammy, I think there's a lot more work you can do. FreeBMD should have both marriages of Henry, as well as births of his two sons and death of his first wife. I'm not going to search for them all, but it looks like Edward was born Dec qtr 1845 and Mary Ann died in Dec qtr 1857 at Brighton. Edward's birth certificate should reveal his mother's maiden name. It can be purchased online from GRO. There were no obvious marriages for Henry & Mary in their home counties of Sussex or Hampshire and a lot of others were up north in Yorkshire & Nottinghamshire. My guess would be between 1842 in Mildenhall and 1843 in Abindgon. But as I say, the birth certificate of Edward will prove her maiden name. You should then be able to find both in 1841 census and then look on Family Search to find christening records on IGI which will give their parents. There doesn't seem anything too difficult about it. Peter

1881 Name: Edward Morley Age: 34 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary A. Morley Gender: Male Where born: Portsmouth, Hampshire, England Civil parish: Marlebone County/Island: London Country: England Street Address: 40 Wells St Condition as to marriage: Married Occupation: Tailor Cutter Registration district: Marylebone Sub-registration district: All Souls ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 133 Folio: 90 Page Number: 33 Household Members: Name Age Edward Morley 34 Mary A. Morley 28 born London Middlesex RG11; Piece: 133; Folio: 90; Page: 33; GSU roll: 1341030. Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hello Listers, > > I'm new to these list(s). > > I'm researching the family of Henry Morley (b abt 1819 Brighton Sussex - > parents unknown) and wife Mary Ann (b abt 1813 Portsea Island Hampshire

>From the same Probate Calendars on Ancestry Probate Calendars 1895 MORLEY Edward Augustus of 11 Tottenham street Tottenham court road Middlesex died 23 May 1895 Administration London 7 June to Mary Ann Morley widow Effects £442 And death registration Name: Edward Augustus Morley Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847 Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1895 Age at Death: 48 Registration district: Pancras Inferred County: London Volume: 1b Page: 23 I have not found him in the census though The key word above is Administration, which means no will, there is unlikely to be anything more in the letters of administration than there is in the above probate entry Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > -Information about where Augustus Edward went, or who he married.

Hi Tammy For copies of all wills 1858 on see http://www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/courts-and-tribunals/courts/probate/copies-of-grants-wills.htm Scroll down that page and select form PA1s All details are on there They do not take payment by credit card or online as yet What you have posted is just the transcribed part of the Probate Calendars that is searchable in the Ancestry index, when you find an entry on Ancestry select the image which is the page the transcribed part is taken from The full entry reads Probate Calendars 1885 MORLEY Henry 17th November The Will of Henry MORLEY late of 33 Red Cross street Brighton in the County of Sussex Tailor who died 22 October 1885 at 33 Red Cross street was proved at Lewes by Ellenor Morley of 33 Red Cross street Widow the relict the sole executrix Personal estate £226 17s 1d Most lists do not discuss DNA and there are lists for that It is always best to post to lists individually as cross posting can cause problems for list admins, it only takes a few seconds longer Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > On Ancestry, I have found a record index for the WILL for Henry b 1819, > who was married to (1st Mary Ann, then) Ellen. > > I'm looking for info on the following: > -Parental/birth info for Henry b abt 1819 who married first Mary Ann, > then Ellen. > -Parental/birth info for Mary Ann (I've been unable to locate a marriage > record so far) > -Information about where Augustus Edward went, or who he married. > > -Where can I buy this WILL indexed at Ancestry, the only info they give is: > Name: Henry Morley > Probate Date: 17 Nov 1885 > Death Date: 22 Oct 1885 > Death Place: Sussex, England > Registry: Lewes >

Peter and Rod. Yes I know and I will one day join Find My Past. I will finish this research with it. I do receive there new letter and enjoy it very much. Just hard times make it impossible to join right now. I would like to thank so many and have off line for so many leads. Also the help on the past that I was lacking. Everyone has been wonderful. Sorry if I was out of line asking for a look up on address. It has turned out great getting so much help Have new names as I have been doing this since 1991. Lots of missing information now filled in. More to follow up on. Before computers if it had now been for the Latter Day Saints and they help I might never have gotten so far. Researching a lot of names different trees. This one is my husbands line so its very important to fill it all in. Mine is Sweden and German so have not made much progress on this. Thanks again to everyone.. Jo-Ann In a message dated 9/5/2011 4:17:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Jo-Ann, 1911 data has to be paid for, so not many people can afford to do lookups for you. You should go to the 1911 site or FindMyPast and use them on a pay per view basis for the minimum amount. I'm sure FindMyPast will have an option to search by location. Peter

Hello Listers, I'm new to these list(s). I'm researching the family of Henry Morley (b abt 1819 Brighton Sussex - parents unknown) and wife Mary Ann (b abt 1813 Portsea Island Hampshire - parents unknown), who appear in the 1851 census with their two boys: Henry Morley b abt 1844 Portsea Island Augustus Edward b abt 1847 Portsea Island Henry Morley is a Tailor. They are living at 47 Church Street, Brighton, Sussex. ~~~~ By 1861 census Henry (b abt 1819) is living with Ellen (different wife b abt 1819 in Lindfield Sussex) -and son Augustus (going by name Edward). They are living at: 32 Red Cross Street, Brighton (Where they remain to live for at least 45 years) Son Henry b abt 1844 in 1861 is found in: Golden Square, Westminster St James, London, Middlesex, England. Occupation: Tailor. By 1873 he marries Rosetta 'Rose' Dann in Nottinghamshire. On Ancestry, I have found a record index for the WILL for Henry b 1819, who was married to (1st Mary Ann, then) Ellen. I'm looking for info on the following: -Parental/birth info for Henry b abt 1819 who married first Mary Ann, then Ellen. -Parental/birth info for Mary Ann (I've been unable to locate a marriage record so far) -Information about where Augustus Edward went, or who he married. -Where can I buy this WILL indexed at Ancestry, the only info they give is: Name: Henry Morley Probate Date: 17 Nov 1885 Death Date: 22 Oct 1885 Death Place: Sussex, England Registry: Lewes I have descendant info on where/what happened to their son Henry b abt 1844 Portsea, (Who married Rosetta Dann) he is in my direct tree. My tree info is available to look at for free at http://www.tammymitchell.com/family/JRM211215AncestrySept52011.html A Kinship report is also available free at: http://www.tammymitchell.com/family/JRM211215KinshipReportSept52011.htm (there are a few thousand people listed there, use your search/find in browser page to find a surname of interest) There has been a Family Finder FTDNA test done on a person from a Morley (paternal England) & Mitchell (maternal Scotland) line. I won't go on about that here because it's not allowed on the Hampshire list. But I will mention FTDNA kit #211215 and Gedmatch.com #F211215. Matches from FTDNA free to look at here: http://www.tammymitchell.com/family/211215_Family_Finder_Matches_20110817xls.htm I thank you in advance. Please contact me for any reason, regarding research, names questions, info! Tammy Mitchell BC Canada

Jo Ann, I have full access to Find My Past so I've been digging for this family for you. First thing I discovered was that the George and Elizabeth Vickers family resided at 2a, West Gate, Basford, Notts at the time of the 1891 census, not at #15. VICKERS George 27 1864 brewer's labourer Oakley, Bedfordshire VICKERS Elizabeth 28 1863 Basford, Nottinghamshire VICKERS George A 8 1883 scholar Basford, Nottinghamshire VICKERS Arthur 6 1885 scholar Basford, Nottinghamshire VICKERS Annie E 3 1888 Basford, Nottinghamshire VICKERS Ellen 1 1890 Basford, Nottinghamshire SPENCER Hannah 43 1848 laundress Basford, Nottinghamshire (sister) SPENCER Eliza 18 1873 curtain taper Basford, Nottinghamshire (niece) RG12 / 2668 / 138 / 31 St Leodegarius, Old Basford 2a, West Gate, Basford, Nottinghamshire In 1901, 2a, West Gate, St Leodegarius Parish was occupied by the Thomas MOAKES family. 15, West Gate was the home of Alfred and Elizabeth PENDER. There are no VICKERS' living on West Gate at that time; the George VICKERS family was living at 22 Cheltenham St. and had added Willie ( 1893), Mable (1897) and Alfred (1900). RG13 / 3189 / 162 / 44 in 1911, George and Elizabeth VICKERS were still residing at 22 Cheltenham St and had added one more child, Albert (1906). Ellen was the eldest child remaining at home. RG14PN20659 RG78PN1232 RD430 SD5 ED26 SN318 In 1911, there were two families of potential interest to you living on West Gate, the John GUYLER family (age 42) at #46 and the Frederick George SPENCER family (age 24) at #60. Now you have some new directions to follow up. Have fun! Jan Fortier St Albert, Alberta, Canada SHAW, HALL, AMOS in Notts

Jo-Ann, 1911 data has to be paid for, so not many people can afford to do lookups for you. You should go to the 1911 site or FindMyPast and use them on a pay per view basis for the minimum amount. I'm sure FindMyPast will have an option to search by location. Peter

Hi Jo-Ann Ancestry have the enumerators summaries transcribed and its very useful for just such a request as yours Living at 15 Westgate Nottingham is a Mr STAPLETON with 2 males and 3 females in the household If you recognise the name I can find my way to the household and get full details as they also have the schedules but are in the process of transcribing them Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) PS there is also a 15 Westgate Street Nottingham where a Mr LANE lived in 1911 , 2 males 3 females > > My husbands grandfather was Arthur Vickers. I started this research with > the census below. > After the 1920 census he left. I may have some leads. Elizabeth Ann > remarried in the 1930 census. Then I sent for Arthur's birth certificate. >