I have been searching through The Nottingham Guardian as available on the “Gale” site through Nottinghamshire Libraries. My specific search was for anything on a most interesting ancestor of mine, Levi Lee, and I came across a report of a meeting called to discuss a proposed fountain for Nottingham Market Place. This meeting turned out to be quite chaotic at times, and sometime hilarious. Though written in a typical “Victorian” style, it still showed a considerable sense of humour on the part of the writer, which really amused me. It is quite a long article, but I thought I would like to share it with others, and have split it into easy reading sections. I will post the remaining sections next week. As an adjunct, I have done additional research and presume that the Mr. Mahon who called the meeting was Jeremiah Mahon, a bookseller on Long Row. I make this presumption given the reference in this article to published works, and that Long Row is of course in The Market Place. My ancestor Levi Lee speaks later on in the meeting. The date of The Nottingham Guardian is 30th October 1851 and the article is reproduced below exactly as written. MEETING EXTRAORDINARY TO PROMOTE THE FOUNTAIN Last night (Wednesday) a meeting convened by placards was held at the Corn Exchange, Thurland Street, Nottingham, its object being to consider the present state of affairs in reference to this much vexed question, which has given rise to many storms in our local tea-cup, and to decide upon the best steps to be pursued for the purpose of realising the dreams of those who are anxious that a fountain should be erected in our spacious Market Place. What those “best steps” are will be ascertained by a perusal of the following report; we may, however, observe par parenthesis, that the chief argument used by the supporters of the project, when any person dared to lift up his voice on the opposition side of the question, consisted of vigorous exclamations, embodying the gentle injunction to “turn him out”. The assemblage was one of a heterogenous description, consisting principally of that class of men who in the palmy days of O’Connor’s mob popularity were prepared to do his bidding, whether it were in tearing their throats by cheering vociferously for “the national land company”, or in tearing the coats from the backs of the loyal lieges who had the audacity to give expression to sentiments advocating obedience to legal rule. But, like Othello, “their occupation would have gone” had not the meeting of this night afforded them some employment. By the request of Mr Mahon, and at his expense, four policemen were in attendance to preserve the peace, Verily, knowing the disposition of his new found friends, he must have been fearful that, without such a salutary check upon their actions, they would have gone to extremes which even he was afraid to contemplate. Proceedings were announced to commence at 8 o’clock, but it was nearer half-past when Mr Mahon ascended the platform. After looking round the room several times Mr. Mahon proposed that Mr. Eyre should be called upon to preside. Mr. Eyre was as still as a tit-mouse, whereupon Mr. Mahon proposed that Mr. Lakin should take the chair. Mr. Lakin dodged behind the broad shoulders of a spectator, evidently with a wish not to accept that honour. Mr. Mahon acting on the principle taught at school, that “If at first you fail, why then, try, and try, and try again, proposed that Mr. Henson should be the president of the important conclave. Mr. Henson remained quiescent, while lengthened grins on many faces gave evidence that the fun was appreciated. But Mr. Mahon was determined to have a chairman, and as a last resource he nominated a Mr. Holbrook, who immediately mounted the rostrum, and opened the business of the night by calling upon Mr. Mahon, who, after stating that the waterworks company wanted what he termed the most exhorbitant sum of £570 a year for a supply of water for the fountain, said that Messrs. Hollins, Parliament Street, were willing to supply water for the fountain, if its promoters fulfilled their proposition to pay all the expense of putting up a tank and pump in order to carry the water to a sufficient high elevation to furnish a proper supply to the fountain, the cost of doing which would not amount to more than £10 to £15 a year. If those persons therefore who had impeded the project, for the sake of mischief would do all they could to enable them to carry it to a completion, their object would soon be attained. The expense of erecting a tank would not be more than £200, which added to the £300 for the purchase and erection of the fountain, would only make a sum of £500, which would be all that would be required to carry out the object. (Hear, hear). Had the fountain been proposed by the persons who were capable of carrying everything before them the opposition would never had been raised, or if it had been, it would have been stepped over, whether it came from high or low. (Cheers and hisses). And then, continued Mr. Mahon, as far as lamps round the fountain go, it is quite necessary that lamps be placed in the centre of the Market Place, for they would prevent many diabolical transactions that are done there. I was nearly killed the other night, and I am sure if lamps were in the Market Place nothing could be attempted to the extent it was. (Hear, hear, hisses, and cries of “shame.”) Yes, I was passing over the Market Place on Thursday evening with three letters in my hand. It was extremely dark, but I saw three men running after me. Of course I ran home. If lamps had been there I should not have been attempted to be seized by what I understand were hired men. I consider myself extremely fortunate in standing here alive before you. (Laughter and sensation.) If the persons who took a prominent part in that little drama had had their way I would be dead at this moment – for the assassin struck me with a great thick stick on my head when I had a shutter in my hands, in a most cowardly manner. (A voice: “Down came the rolling pin!” Laughter, and cries of “Turn him out”.) I repeat that I was shutting up my shop at nearly 11 o’clock on Thursday night, a gentleman who shall be nameless, came from a dark place with a great thick stick and hit me as hard as he could; and the blow was repeated several times. (“Order,” “shame”, and laughter.) If I had not exercised activity, and under a good Providence, I should certainly have been killed. (A voice; “Good job,” – and interruption which lasted several minutes.) Having stated that the verses, and other matter he had published were issued with a “corrective” and not with a “corruptive” intention, and that they ought to be looked upon as wholesome lessons, Mr Mahon moved “That this meeting presents a vote of thanks to Messrs Hollins and Co for the kind and liberal manner in which they have consented to give to the inhabitants of Nottingham the use of the water now running to waste in their works in Parliament Street, and fro granting permission to erect tanks a t a sufficiently high elevation to make the water serviceable to supply the same fountain.”. _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3899 - Release Date: 09/15/11

William Talbot was active in 1876 [see PO Directory] at Castle Gate, Nottingham - and is also listed in the History, Gazetteer and Directory of Nottingham for 1885 - when he is also the Registrar of Births and Deaths - Newark district, 50 Castle Gate. John Frearson Researching the Speight Family of Photographers www.johnphfrearson.host22.com/Speight-Photographers.html

Check the parish profile of Attenborough parish in Genuki's Nottinghamshire parish list.  Toton is a township and manor in that parish.     Lou ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 09:10:32 -0700 From: Pat Connors <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [NTT] Carter To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I wish I could give you a more educated answer, but I got the info from a man living in Derbyshire.  He has a website that is mostly dedicated to the county and I wrote him asking about Toton.  (On my gr grandfather's gravestone in Canada, it says, "born at Toton, Derbyshire, England".) This is what he wrote to me: > my first impression is that is could be Toton which is just inside > Nottinghamshire. It borders with Long Eaton in Derbyshire. Long Eaton > became a separate parish in 1813 so before that was part of the > Derbyshire parish of Sawley. For almost 20 years, I have been looking for Toton in Derbyshire without success.  I went back to Canada in July and again looked at the gravestone just to be sure.  So now I have found that Toton is in Nottinghamshire and as a result I have found my gr grandfather's baptism.  With the help of Family History Library films and the help of so many on this list, I have been able to piece his family together. > I cannot help you on your specific enquiry, but the River Erewash has been > the southern boundary between Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire since time > immemorial. Toton is and always has been to the east of this boundary and > definitely in Notts. I have never heard of Toton ever being in Derbyshire. >    I would like to take this time to thank all those who emailed me off the list and helped me.  I will write all of you off the list.  I am just a bit overwhelmed by all the help I have received from all over the world from members of this list.  Thank you very much. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento, CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com

Re Clive Boyce's photo - the imp in Paris may probably the firm that produced the CDV mount - one of the commonest was "Marian imp Paris" The photographer just stuck the photo on the mount. Best wishes John Frearson Researching the Speight Family of Photographers www.johnphfrearson.host22.com/Speight-Photographers.html

I have an old family photograph (approx 6 x 10 cm) which has a very smart printed reverse with a crown on a cushion and "W TALBOT Artist and Photographer, Castle Gate, Newark". It says printed (imp) in Paris. I would be very grateful for any information on TALBOT and when he was in business in Newark. Is there any link to THE TALBOTs ? Clive Boyce

All, just a thought on this "thread". An Army which is at the end of its tether would have needed supplies. The Rebel army could have literaly run out of shoes because of the march south to Derby. Supplies would have been scarce. So the Rebel army could have taken matters into their own hands and taken the shoes from the good folk of Derby. Jump forward 100 years and I believe the battle of Gettysburg came about because General Robert E Lee of the Confederate Army believed that their was a store of shoes/boots at Gettysburg for his troops who had worn theirs out in the previous campaign. As I said, just a thought. Mike Greatorex Harrogate, England Looking for all Greatorex's from North Nottinghamshire, Sheffield, Orange Co, NY, USA, Florida and Alabama, USA. http://www.freewebs.com/greatorexfamily/

very many thanks to all who replied re the parish records and shoes. I thought it worth sharing, a curious addition to burials and the like Aileen   "Quod Verum Tutum" (The truth is Safe)

Just to confirm what I thought to be correct, this is from the Wikipedia entry for Swarkestone Bridge- not infallible I know! "In 1745 during the Jacobite Rebellion led by Bonnie Prince Charlie, the advance party of his army reached here to gain control of the crossing of the Trent. Finding no reports of support from the south, they turned back to Derby; the invading army then retreated to Scotland and final defeat at the Battle of Culloden. Swarkestone thereby being the most southerly point reached during that army's advance on London." Brian Binns -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of A durn Sent: 14 September 2011 15:50 To: [email protected] Subject: [NTT] curious reading through transcript of parish registers I came across the following "In the year 1745   the Rebels  arrived at Derby  and many poor people lost their shoes" I wonder why, anyone know what was happening ? Aileen Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3895 - Release Date: 09/13/11 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3895 - Release Date: 09/13/11 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3895 - Release Date: 09/13/11

I found these two quotes: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DERBYSGEN/2008-05/1210255406 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Culloden (I know this is not Derby but is another example) Am I right in thinking Derby is where most rof the Rebels turned back? Anyway a marauding army took what they wanted - there is of course the well known quote that an army marches on its stomach, but clearly they also marched on their feet! Leather, (or wrapped cloth around the foot) does not last for ever and they had marched many miles. At that time shoes were simple enough for the commoner - left and right generally being the same, and a string or strap would hold it on the foot, so any unfortunate who happened to cross the path of a would be soldier, would be brave indeed if he tried to hang onto his footwear! Jean Wood > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 16:00:57 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NTT] curious > > It was the Jacobite revolution - the 1745 uprising of Bonnie Prince Charlie. > His army got as far as Derby before turning back. Although I have read > elsewhere that he reached Swarkestone Bridge, which is south of Derby. > > Whatever, there is a commemorative statue of him on horseback close to The > Silk Mill in Derby. > > I don't know why people lost their shoes though. > > Brian Binns > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of A durn > Sent: 14 September 2011 15:50 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [NTT] curious > > reading through transcript of parish registers I came across the following > > "In the year 1745 the Rebels arrived at Derby and many poor people > > lost their shoes" > > I wonder why, anyone know what was happening ? > Aileen > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3895 - Release Date: 09/13/11 > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3895 - Release Date: 09/13/11 > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3895 - Release Date: 09/13/11 > > > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 2011/09/14 16:49, A durn wrote: > reading through transcript of parish registers I came across the following > > "In the year 1745 the Rebels arrived at Derby and many poor people > > lost their shoes" > > I wonder why, anyone know what was happening ? Bonnie Prince Charlie and the Jacobite Rebellion! -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

On 14 Sep 2011 at 15:49, A durn wrote: > reading through transcript of parish registers I came across the > following > > "In the year 1745   the Rebels  arrived at Derby  and many poor people > > > lost their shoes" > > I wonder why, anyone know what was happening ? > Aileen > Check your history! 1745 was the year when Bonnie Prince Charlie, the Young Pretender, and his Highland hordes invaded England in the rebellion known as "The Forty-Five". In virtually every town they went through they forced the townspeople to give them food, clothing and shelter. By the time they got to Derby - where Charlie decided to turn back - I expect they'd worn their shoes out. Think about it - the incumbent would not need to explain in his parish registers what was happening because the entire country would have known about it. Hence the "curious" reference. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Could it be a mis-transcription and they lost their "souls"? Rosemary Northumberland UK Email: [email protected] Family History: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rprobert/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On 14/09/2011 15:49, A durn wrote: > reading through transcript of parish registers I came across the following > "In the year 1745 the Rebels arrived at Derby and many poor people > lost their shoes" > > I wonder why, anyone know what was happening ? > Aileen

It was the Jacobite revolution - the 1745 uprising of Bonnie Prince Charlie. His army got as far as Derby before turning back. Although I have read elsewhere that he reached Swarkestone Bridge, which is south of Derby. Whatever, there is a commemorative statue of him on horseback close to The Silk Mill in Derby. I don't know why people lost their shoes though. Brian Binns -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of A durn Sent: 14 September 2011 15:50 To: [email protected] Subject: [NTT] curious reading through transcript of parish registers I came across the following "In the year 1745   the Rebels  arrived at Derby  and many poor people lost their shoes" I wonder why, anyone know what was happening ? Aileen Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3895 - Release Date: 09/13/11 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3895 - Release Date: 09/13/11 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3895 - Release Date: 09/13/11

reading through transcript of parish registers I came across the following "In the year 1745   the Rebels  arrived at Derby  and many poor people lost their shoes" I wonder why, anyone know what was happening ? Aileen

HI, >>It was the Jacobite revolution - the 1745 uprising of Bonnie Prince Charlie. His army got as far as Derby before turning back. Although I have read elsewhere that he reached Swarkestone Bridge, which is south of Derby. The vicar of Lapley in Staffordshire went further: "Copia vera Registri de Lapley al Ano. Dom. 1708 ad 1711. Note: The grand Rebellion made by the French, etc, against the Crown of England (at which time the said Rebels advanced into the body of this Nation as far as Derby), began in Autumn in the 20th year of the Reign of King George the Second, and in the year of our Lord God 1745 and 1746. The above Memorandum made by me Wm. Weate Vic of Lapley Note the said Rebels were repuls'd by his Noble Royal Highness Wm. Duke of Cumberland. Note the Rebel army consisted of only 6 or 7000 men and many of those the refuse of their country." Nice to see that news reporting was as unbiased then as it is today... John Peel

Lenton Boulevard still exists in the section between Ilkeston Road and Abbey Bridge. Castle Boulevard runs from Abbey Bridge to Wilford Street. Tony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Ellis" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 1:49 PM Subject: [NTT] lenton boulevard to castle boulevard > > Hi Listers, > does anyone know what year Lenton Boulevard became Castle Boulevard. > Regards Paul > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Listers, Late baptisms don't seem to be all that uncommon in my lines - maybe due in some cases to the tax on baptism entries at some times. In Bottesford, LEI, nine of 'my' Riley children were baptised on the same day in 1810, with ages varying from 3 years to 19 years - and the Vicar has my undying thanks for giving their dates of birth. The tenth child had been hurriedly baptised earlier that year and died shortly after, so maybe the parents had had a bit of a fright and had their other children baptised just in case. I've also found that multiple baptisms sometimes co-incide with a new vicar - either the old one tying up loose ends before he left, or the new broom starting to sweep. I also have 2 teenagers (17yrs) being baptised into the Anglican church - presumably at their own request as their parents were Baptist and so didn't believe in infant baptism. Regards, Ellie Thomas

Hi About 1908 http://www.lentontimes.co.uk/streets/castle_boulevard.htm regards Pete in Mansfield ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Ellis" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 1:49 PM Subject: [NTT] lenton boulevard to castle boulevard > Hi Listers, > does anyone know what year Lenton Boulevard became Castle Boulevard. > Regards Paul > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Listers, does anyone know what year Lenton Boulevard became Castle Boulevard. Regards Paul

I wish I could give you a more educated answer, but I got the info from a man living in Derbyshire. He has a website that is mostly dedicated to the county and I wrote him asking about Toton. (On my gr grandfather's gravestone in Canada, it says, "born at Toton, Derbyshire, England".) This is what he wrote to me: > my first impression is that is could be Toton which is just inside > Nottinghamshire. It borders with Long Eaton in Derbyshire. Long Eaton > became a separate parish in 1813 so before that was part of the > Derbyshire parish of Sawley. For almost 20 years, I have been looking for Toton in Derbyshire without success. I went back to Canada in July and again looked at the gravestone just to be sure. So now I have found that Toton is in Nottinghamshire and as a result I have found my gr grandfather's baptism. With the help of Family History Library films and the help of so many on this list, I have been able to piece his family together. > I cannot help you on your specific enquiry, but the River Erewash has been > the southern boundary between Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire since time > immemorial. Toton is and always has been to the east of this boundary and > definitely in Notts. I have never heard of Toton ever being in Derbyshire. > I would like to take this time to thank all those who emailed me off the list and helped me. I will write all of you off the list. I am just a bit overwhelmed by all the help I have received from all over the world from members of this list. Thank you very much. -- Pat Connors, Sacramento, CA http://www.connorsgenealogy.com