Sue, The Notts FHS CD has many early BEASTALLs buried in Plumtree, including Francis 1784 amd Mary, wife of Francis, in 1776 [sic] and many later in Sutton in Ashfield St. Mary Magdalene and a few in Kirkby in Ashfield St Wilfrid. My tree has a Mary Reeve, who I believe married Byron Beastall in 1913. Does he link to your tree? regards, Dai On 09/11/2011 06:56, [email protected] wrote: > Hi List > > We had a few BEASTALL's die in Nottinghamshire. Matthew BEASTALLdied in 1854 at Selston, Notts, > Francis BEASTALL died in Plumtree in 1784 and Mary BEASTALL, his wife died in 1774 in Plumtree, Notts. There would be others as well. > > Does anyone know where they maybe buried, any info would be most helpful. I am coming over to the UK next year and would like to have a look at some for them > > Sue Woodcock > Brisbane, Australia > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Anyone researching Pettit's Pettitt's etc of Notts? Thank you Paul Pettit -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 12:00 AM To: [email protected] Subject: NOTTSGEN Digest, Vol 4, Issue 190 Today's Topics: 1. Mathews Scrooby (Sheila Khan) 2. Mathews Scrooby (Sheila Khan) 3. Burial of Isabella STANYARD (Margaret Hartshorn) 4. Re: Mathews Scrooby (Peter R Booth) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 15:15:25 +0000 From: Sheila Khan <[email protected]> Subject: [NTT] Mathews Scrooby To: nottsgen <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]om> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Listers Not done any family history research for quite a while now and have decided to go back to one of my brickwalls. I have William Matthews (labourer) born in Mattersley in 1821 who married Ann Harris (b c1819 in Barnby moor) in Blyth in 1841. They had 2 daughters, Jane born in 1841 in Ranskill and Eliza born 13th May 1842 in Sutton. In 1861 William and Ann were living in Scrooby without their daughters. I have not been able to trace them after this at all. The death certificates I have purchased have not been theirs. I have found the people on those on the 1871 census and they are not "mine". Cannot find them in 1871 or 1881. Does anybody have any suggestions? Does anybody live near Scrooby and know if there are any parish registers available? I have checked Family search site and the only ones available there are prior to 1837. -- Sheila ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 15:46:38 +0000 From: Sheila Khan <[email protected]> Subject: [NTT] Mathews Scrooby To: nottsgen <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]om> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Just one more piece of info. I do have a record of William Mathews after 1861 on his daughter Eliza's marriage certificate where his occupation is given as farmer. This was on 8th April 1962. -- Sheila ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 22:29:08 -0000 From: "Margaret Hartshorn" <[email protected]> Subject: [NTT] Burial of Isabella STANYARD To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I have the will of Isabella STANYARD who died on 29th October 1878. She lived at Sherwood Street in Nottingham at that time and I wondered if anyone can tell me where she might have been buried Margaret Hartshorn ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 11:46:39 +1100 From: "Peter R Booth" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [NTT] Mathews Scrooby To: "nottsgen" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Sheila, I found nothing obvious on a quick look at later censuses. There's all sorts of reasons why they might not appear. They died, moved, migrated or are mistranscribed. It will take some hard work to test all those out. I note that there are a couple of possible deaths registered at East Retford for William Matthews between last known address in 1861 census and 1871 census. That in Dec 1869 is a close match on age. You might think about obtaining the certificate. There are also a death for Ann in the same quarter but the age looks out. Did they die both die from something like a flu epedemic? Perhaps that solves the mystery, but keep your mind open to other options. Peter ------------------------------ End of NOTTSGEN Digest, Vol 4, Issue 190 ****************************************

Sheila, I found nothing obvious on a quick look at later censuses. There's all sorts of reasons why they might not appear. They died, moved, migrated or are mistranscribed. It will take some hard work to test all those out. I note that there are a couple of possible deaths registered at East Retford for William Matthews between last known address in 1861 census and 1871 census. That in Dec 1869 is a close match on age. You might think about obtaining the certificate. There are also a death for Ann in the same quarter but the age looks out. Did they die both die from something like a flu epedemic? Perhaps that solves the mystery, but keep your mind open to other options. Peter

I have the will of Isabella STANYARD who died on 29th October 1878. She lived at Sherwood Street in Nottingham at that time and I wondered if anyone can tell me where she might have been buried Margaret Hartshorn

Just one more piece of info. I do have a record of William Mathews after 1861 on his daughter Eliza's marriage certificate where his occupation is given as farmer. This was on 8th April 1962. -- Sheila

Hi Listers Not done any family history research for quite a while now and have decided to go back to one of my brickwalls. I have William Matthews (labourer) born in Mattersley in 1821 who married Ann Harris (b c1819 in Barnby moor) in Blyth in 1841. They had 2 daughters, Jane born in 1841 in Ranskill and Eliza born 13th May 1842 in Sutton. In 1861 William and Ann were living in Scrooby without their daughters. I have not been able to trace them after this at all. The death certificates I have purchased have not been theirs. I have found the people on those on the 1871 census and they are not "mine". Cannot find them in 1871 or 1881. Does anybody have any suggestions? Does anybody live near Scrooby and know if there are any parish registers available? I have checked Family search site and the only ones available there are prior to 1837. -- Sheila

I've just been researching my wife's family from Sutton in Ashfield, and was tracing the siblings of her grandmother, Lilian Sansom. One of Lilian's sisters, with the delightful name of Adeline, married an Edward Jones in 1896 in Sutton. He, like his father, was born in Flintshire, North Wales, but his family had latterly been living in Fenton, Stoke on Trent, the home town of his mother. Edward obviously took his wife back there, as they are on the 1901 census in Fenton, with Edward's occupation shown as a "Musical Director". It's always intrigued me how people from different parts of the country meet and then marry, and Edward's occupation may explain why he met Adeline in Sutton. I then traced Edward back to the 1891 census in Fenton to double check his birthplace, which was not clear on the 1901 census, and found that he came from an extremely large family. His parents, John and Jane Jones were recorded with 13 children. Not unusual you might say, but amongst these 13 were 2 sets of twins, and one set of triplets! I then found John and Jane on the 1901 census and discovered that they had had another 2 children, making 15 in total! On the 1911 census John was married to another Jane, his first wife having died - probably from exhaustion! I would be interested in sharing information with anyone researching the SANSOM name from Sutton in Ashfield. Brian Binns _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1834 / Virus Database: 2092/4588 - Release Date: 10/31/11

Hi list, Presently researching my father's Uncles families and have the following: HENRY SYLVESTER BURTON born in Lincolnshire abt 1865 GEORGE ALBERT BURTON born in Leamington, Warwickshire 1867. George married HELENA BANTOR BRADLEY in Nottingham in 1890 and they had two daughters; IVY BURTON b. in Nottm. abt 1892 and DOROTHY BURTON b. in Nottm. abt 1894 On Census returns George is listed as a Lithographic Printer Would be pleased to hear from anyone who has connections to the above. Best wishes. Tony

Don't tease! What did you discover? I have tried googling and have found out WHAT it is, but nothing further - a couple of links are "Whoops - broken" Jean Wood > Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 12:16:06 +0100 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [NTT] Ages on Census > > > You may be surprised to learn that various studies have shown literacy > > levels of our ancestors were very close to that of today. > > I would certainly be surprised for 19th century Cambridgeshire when I > read the 1843 Speculum Gregis describing Croydon-cum-Clopton > > ==John ffitch > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> You may be surprised to learn that various studies have shown literacy > levels of our ancestors were very close to that of today. I would certainly be surprised for 19th century Cambridgeshire when I read the 1843 Speculum Gregis describing Croydon-cum-Clopton ==John ffitch

Looking for information on CHARLES BRENTNALL born c. 1700 or earlier, who married REBECCA LAURENCE in 1722. He was a widower, and his occupation was that of Baker. I have searched everywhere I can think of but can find no record of his parents or first marriage at all. He may have been apprenticed as a baker, but I cannot access the apprenticeship documents from here in Australia. Any help much appreciated. Jeanette Brentnall

On 18/10/2011 21:40, Kara Oosterman wrote: > > I must say Nivard's reply really surprised me . . . > > I would say generally speaking not too many households in 1851 would even contain a person capable of filling in any details themselves if they could read the forms in the first place. Hence we have the problem of names written phonetically as the enumerator heard them. > > Regards > Kara > DRURY NZ > You may be surprised to learn that various studies have shown literacy levels of our ancestors were very close to that of today. It is thought that even the peasant's revolt (1381) was co-ordinated with written instructions. Cheers Guy -- http://freespace.virgin.net/guy.etchells/ The site that gives you facts not promises http://anguline.co.uk/ Old and rare books on CD

Hi List Still looking for any of following descendants - both my father, his sister and one of her sons have died in last 2 years and still strugglling with their grandfathers side. May Denyer married Thomas Caffrey (1912)- children included Louvain married Mark Miller - daughter Sheila MillerBettyy Dan T married Norah Evans - sons Roger and Paul Edgar Charles Denyer- died in Bedford married Florence Eustace had children in Bedord area The remaining Denyer boys were either childless or had no granchildren. Florence Denyer married Frederick H Rigley ( 2nd Wife) First wife Betsy Frost they had a daughter but were divorced by 1921- there appears to be 3 children in records with same father and mothers names - first girl might be theirs- son was named in divorce papers as no is and not sure about second girl as beleive there may have been another Rigley Frost marriage. , Florence and Frederick had 4 chlidren - none of whom survive. On this side Alice married Jack Beeston- was in contat with a son a few years back but he has since died. The other sons are Ernest, J, S and a female J - cannot remember names - born between 1947 1nd 1954. Dennis who married Rita Monk= son Dennis, daughter Susan- (Susan and family had dog called Havoc ). Last seen in 1982. Think they are in Lincolnshire. Wallace - am sporadically in touch with this side Allen my dad The family were split up when they were small and Alice's sons had no idea about Wallace or my dad Allen. Any help appreciated Liz

I would agree with Nivard that literacy rates were low in 1851.  Prior to 1840, most schooling was strictly religious.  Literacy was not the goal, morality was.  Many people could write their name, but if they got a letter, they had to have the vicar read it for them.  Secular education became a social issue around 1840, but it took a while to get anything like a modern school going in most parishes.  A Royal Commission in 1861 found that most boys left school by age 10 or 11, particularly in agricultural areas. Add to this the belief in many Englishmen that the "Government" didn't need to know anything about them, and I'm surprised that the census is as accurate as it was.     Lou Mills

Hi Nivard & Tony   ><>Generally speaking the information was taken from the schedule which was filled in by the householder then collected by the enumerator and copied up at home I must say Nivard's reply really surprised me . . .   I would say generally speaking not too many households in 1851 would even contain a person capable of filling in any details themselves if they could read the forms in the first place. Hence we have the problem of names written phonetically as the enumerator heard them.   Regards Kara DRURY NZ   > Hi list,  I have recently come across something on the 1851 Census which I > have never seen in more than a few years of research and I'm wondering if > anyone has any ideas. > > Looking for a William Mason, born about 1845 in Middlesex I find a Family > where the Mother and Father simply give their ages as "Over 20" and they > give the ages of all their three children (including William Mason) as > "under 20".  The Father simply states he has "No Profession" > > Now, are they simply being awkward or is there some reason for this that > I've not come across ?  The enumerator obviously accepted it and wrote it > down on the schedule.  Any thoughts on this will be most welcome.  Best > wishes, Tony Burton

Hi Kara The census in the USA was taken door to door and the details taken by the enumerator In the UK the enumerator left a schedule with each household (or more if was a split household) The form was to be filled in by the householder with those who would be at home as of midnight on census day, the schedules were then collected the day after by the enumerator He took them home, collated them and transcribed them onto the pages we see online today The enumerators were paid a fee for doing the whole job and returning the transcribed details in a set time as follows ====================== 1851 Census (from Histpop) Forms and Instructions p39 Allowances to Enumerators For various duties performed with respect to the census of the Population; including the delivery and collection of all necessary forms, the enumeration of houses in the district, and of the persons resident therein on the night of March 30th 1851, and the subsequent completion of his Enumeration schedule. £0 /18s/0d Note:- The above pay is subject to a deduction of 5s, if the Enumeration Schedule is not delivered into the hands of the Registrar before the 8th day of April 1851 If the Enumerator's District contain more than 300 inhabitants, an additional fee of 1s for every 60 persons duly enumerated above 300 In every District containing more than 25 inhabited houses, an additional 1s for every mile above 5 miles necessarily traversed by the Enumerator, in visiting every house within his District; but not including any distance traversed by him between his own place of abode and the first and last houses visited ================ Clearly the enumerator helped some to fill in the schedules but most would be done when collected, if not by the householder or his children, then by a friend or neighbour It does not take much thought to realise the enumerator would simply not have the time to do many himself I think the literacy level is perhaps somewhat higher than you think it was, there would only need to be one family member who could write to fill it in I would suggest much of the problem we face with the jumbled up names and misspellings are due more to the handwriting of the person who filled in the schedule, added to that the enumerators did not have time to go back and ask what the scribble actually said so put down their best guess Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) Hi Nivard & Tony ><>Generally speaking the information was taken from the schedule which was filled in by the householder then collected by the enumerator and copied up at home I must say Nivard's reply really surprised me . . . I would say generally speaking not too many households in 1851 would even contain a person capable of filling in any details themselves if they could read the forms in the first place. Hence we have the problem of names written phonetically as the enumerator heard them. Regards Kara DRURY NZ

Hi again Looking at the page I would still suggest the schedule (140) was half filled in and the enumerator did not check it before returning home Otherwise how would you explain the more than vague ages (if that is indeed what it says "over" ?) and only three birth places for the children If someone else gave the details as they were out when the enumerator went to collect the form you would expect either a little more or no birthplaces at all It certainly couldn't be anyone from the household itself or they would know at least one age wouldn't they <g> Sadly we are unlikely to ever know the real reason as the household schedules were destroyed after transcription The only other time I have seen this sort of vague entry is for gypsies, boat people or tramps who were reluctant to give details and the enumerators were often wary of approaching them Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi Nivard, Thanks for the interest. Looked for William Mason on 1851 Ref: > HO107 Piece1525 Folio 545 pp32. The Parents don't even say where they > were born. The other families on the same sheet all give their details as > normal > Tony.

Hi Nivard, Thanks for the interest. Looked for William Mason on 1851 Ref: HO107 Piece1525 Folio 545 pp32. The Parents don't even say where they were born. The other families on the same sheet all give their details as normal Tony. On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Tony > > Can you give the page reference so we can take a look at it > > Generally speaking the information was taken from the schedule which was > filled in by the householder then collected by the enumerator and copied up > at home > > It sounds as if the householder had not completed the schedule and the > enumerator made a best guess at their ages , they did not have much time to > complete the whole and return it > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > Hi list, I have recently come across something on the 1851 Census which I >> have never seen in more than a few years of research and I'm wondering if >> anyone has any ideas. >> >> Looking for a William Mason, born about 1845 in Middlesex I find a Family >> where the Mother and Father simply give their ages as "Over 20" and they >> give the ages of all their three children (including William Mason) as >> "under 20". The Father simply states he has "No Profession" >> >> Now, are they simply being awkward or is there some reason for this that >> I've not come across ? The enumerator obviously accepted it and wrote it >> down on the schedule. Any thoughts on this will be most welcome. Best >> wishes, Tony Burton >> > >

Hi Tony Can you give the page reference so we can take a look at it Generally speaking the information was taken from the schedule which was filled in by the householder then collected by the enumerator and copied up at home It sounds as if the householder had not completed the schedule and the enumerator made a best guess at their ages , they did not have much time to complete the whole and return it Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi list, I have recently come across something on the 1851 Census which I > have never seen in more than a few years of research and I'm wondering if > anyone has any ideas. > > Looking for a William Mason, born about 1845 in Middlesex I find a Family > where the Mother and Father simply give their ages as "Over 20" and they > give the ages of all their three children (including William Mason) as > "under 20". The Father simply states he has "No Profession" > > Now, are they simply being awkward or is there some reason for this that > I've not come across ? The enumerator obviously accepted it and wrote it > down on the schedule. Any thoughts on this will be most welcome. Best > wishes, Tony Burton

Hi list, I have recently come across something on the 1851 Census which I have never seen in more than a few years of research and I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas. Looking for a William Mason, born about 1845 in Middlesex I find a Family where the Mother and Father simply give their ages as "Over 20" and they give the ages of all their three children (including William Mason) as "under 20". The Father simply states he has "No Profession" Now, are they simply being awkward or is there some reason for this that I've not come across ? The enumerator obviously accepted it and wrote it down on the schedule. Any thoughts on this will be most welcome. Best wishes, Tony Burton