Aeons ago, I was 17, doing A levels in both Art and History. I wanted to make a circular, calligraphic, family tree going back say 4 generations. My paternal grandmother was positively obstructive. We all knew that her father was Italian, and she was not too keen to tell me much about him and his family, but when it came to her father-in-law, (and I never knew my grandfather who died 5 years before I was born) she became positively vitriolic. We all knew that he had started an artificial limb business before 1890 (and it still exists, but is not in Notts) but she would tell me NOTHING. Her mantra was "they're dead and gone and best forgotten" (nor did she approve of my idea to learn italian though she could speak it perfectly well) Over 20 years later, with a young family and having been struggling to continue family research, using public transport to go to distant Record Offices and libraries, and in contact with a distant cousin, descendant of the family who still run the limb business, I received a phone call out of the blue. It was an official genealogist who wanted to ask me questions about my research, and specifically about my grandmother. I told him what I knew.He was preparing a book on the centenary of the business.. I remarked that I had discovered that my great grandfather, the one Grandma detested, had left a Will, proved in August 1926, but then revoked and a new grant of probate made in February 1927. My inquirer, said, "Oh, yes. The other family challenged the Will." (My father was an incorrigible romancer and teller of tall tales, so it was ALWAYS difficult to separate fact from fiction. He had remarked now and again that several young men, the spit of his father, followed the coffin. He was 8 years old in 1926) It turned out that indeed, G grandfather had set up house with a soubrette - former companion to Stan Laurel - by whom she had a son in November 1911. The lady friend's house was within about 3 miles of the family home. My grandparents married in July 1913 and had lived next door to each other for most of their childhood. Can you imagine? - the scandal of your father-in-law playing away, with living proof, less than two years before the posh wedding you had been building up to for years! It probably also explains the stony expression on the young bride's face in the wedding photo! Father in law looks like the cat with the cream and his wife ( these 2 my g grandparents) just looks weary. Shortly after this phone call (1989 or thereabouts,) I had one long phone call and one long letter from the son of the 1911 baby. Sadly i have heard nothing since. He was very bitter about the whole business - and this 70+ years on. He was only a couple of years older than me, but was effectively my father's cousin. Jean Wood > Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 20:15:06 +0000 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [NTT] Skeletons (was: NOTTSGEN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 48) > > > When I started researching the family tree in my teens, my grandfather > told my brother to tell me that he (my GF) wouldn't help me in any way > and that I shouldn't ask! I carried on regardless but without his help ;-) > > For his 90th birthday, I presented him with a hand written 'tree (I did > calligraphy) - him, 2 generations back and 2 generations forward - not > in great detail - just names. He realised and appreciated what I had > achieved and there and then bequeathed me his family albums and all his > diaries, etc. > > By that time, I had discovered that his father was illegitimate - what > he didn't want me to know (thus no dates on the 'tree). But it was a > year or so after his death, that I discovered that his mother was > illegitimate as well. I will never know if *he* ever knew about that or > not. > > I found it fascinating but my dad was really shocked when I told him of > the illegitimacies - 1 generation closer to him was a little too close. > I now temper my excitement when I come across a piece of juicy intrigue! > > Heather > > > > On 17/02/2012 10:03, [email protected]net.com wrote: > > From: Shirley Elston<[email protected]> > > > >> Talking of divorce earlier,I was married in 1974 to someone and we > >> were both married before and had to obtain divorce papers to get > >> married to each other. > >> I knew my OH had been married before so didn't think anything of it > >> at the time. > >> We were together about 40 years altogether,10 of them before we > >> married and 30 years married and then we divorced just a few years > >> ago. I learned my ex had died a couple of years ago and for some > >> unknown reason I was looking on Ancestry at marriages for our > >> marriage details,just curiosity I suppose,like you do! I was amazed > >> to see that my ex had been married twice before he married me and > >> the second marriage had occurred while married still to the first > >> wife! > >> Well of course I had to persue this as I started to wonder about my > >> own marriage,thankfully the second wife had divorced him just a few > >> months before he married me. The second marriage he had was in the > >> 60's so at the in between stage of computers which is probably why > >> he got away with it. He produced the first marriage divorce papers > >> to marry me. He is dead now so I can't even ask him about it . > >> During the first 10 years we were together it suited me not to > >> re-marry after the first disaster and I suppose he didn't persue it > >> because of what he had done! I must confess I was a bit shocked to > >> discover this. > >> > >> Shirley< > > Having been in genealogy for around 40 years now, the very first thing I always tell beginners > > when they ask my advice on how to get started is this: "If you are the sort of person who is > > going to be upset by what you might discover, then don't even think about doing it!" > > > > When I began in the 1970s my late mother was horrified and begged my wife to try and stop > > me. Why? Because virtually the very first thing I found out was that not only had my father > > been married before, moreover that he had had an illegitimate daughter by another woman > > (not his wife) who was my half-sister. As it happens, my sister and I found each other a few > > years later (she lives in Australia) and we have met a number of times and got to know each > > other. We still keep in touch now and then via e-mail. > > > > I could never understand why my mother was so desperate not for me to find out, a > > generational thing I suppose. It turned out when I eventually contacted my half-sister that all > > the family had known about her, my father's brother and sisters had sent her birthday and > > Christmas cards and presents, but no-one had ever told me! My initial reaction was anger > > that I had been prevented from knowing I had a sister for the first half of my life, but that has > > now gone away and we just enjoy keeping in touch. > > > > Families and family history is a funny business and anyone who can't accept what they find > > shouldn't be in it at all! Thanks for giving us your experience, Shirley. > > > > -- > > Roy Stockdill > > Genealogical researcher, writer& lecturer > > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy& Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > > and that is not being talked about." > > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Notts Surname List > > > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

When I started researching the family tree in my teens, my grandfather told my brother to tell me that he (my GF) wouldn't help me in any way and that I shouldn't ask! I carried on regardless but without his help ;-) For his 90th birthday, I presented him with a hand written 'tree (I did calligraphy) - him, 2 generations back and 2 generations forward - not in great detail - just names. He realised and appreciated what I had achieved and there and then bequeathed me his family albums and all his diaries, etc. By that time, I had discovered that his father was illegitimate - what he didn't want me to know (thus no dates on the 'tree). But it was a year or so after his death, that I discovered that his mother was illegitimate as well. I will never know if *he* ever knew about that or not. I found it fascinating but my dad was really shocked when I told him of the illegitimacies - 1 generation closer to him was a little too close. I now temper my excitement when I come across a piece of juicy intrigue! Heather On 17/02/2012 10:03, [email protected] wrote: > From: Shirley Elston<[email protected]> > >> Talking of divorce earlier,I was married in 1974 to someone and we >> were both married before and had to obtain divorce papers to get >> married to each other. >> I knew my OH had been married before so didn't think anything of it >> at the time. >> We were together about 40 years altogether,10 of them before we >> married and 30 years married and then we divorced just a few years >> ago. I learned my ex had died a couple of years ago and for some >> unknown reason I was looking on Ancestry at marriages for our >> marriage details,just curiosity I suppose,like you do! I was amazed >> to see that my ex had been married twice before he married me and >> the second marriage had occurred while married still to the first >> wife! >> Well of course I had to persue this as I started to wonder about my >> own marriage,thankfully the second wife had divorced him just a few >> months before he married me. The second marriage he had was in the >> 60's so at the in between stage of computers which is probably why >> he got away with it. He produced the first marriage divorce papers >> to marry me. He is dead now so I can't even ask him about it . >> During the first 10 years we were together it suited me not to >> re-marry after the first disaster and I suppose he didn't persue it >> because of what he had done! I must confess I was a bit shocked to >> discover this. >> >> Shirley< > Having been in genealogy for around 40 years now, the very first thing I always tell beginners > when they ask my advice on how to get started is this: "If you are the sort of person who is > going to be upset by what you might discover, then don't even think about doing it!" > > When I began in the 1970s my late mother was horrified and begged my wife to try and stop > me. Why? Because virtually the very first thing I found out was that not only had my father > been married before, moreover that he had had an illegitimate daughter by another woman > (not his wife) who was my half-sister. As it happens, my sister and I found each other a few > years later (she lives in Australia) and we have met a number of times and got to know each > other. We still keep in touch now and then via e-mail. > > I could never understand why my mother was so desperate not for me to find out, a > generational thing I suppose. It turned out when I eventually contacted my half-sister that all > the family had known about her, my father's brother and sisters had sent her birthday and > Christmas cards and presents, but no-one had ever told me! My initial reaction was anger > that I had been prevented from knowing I had a sister for the first half of my life, but that has > now gone away and we just enjoy keeping in touch. > > Families and family history is a funny business and anyone who can't accept what they find > shouldn't be in it at all! Thanks for giving us your experience, Shirley. > > -- > Roy Stockdill > Genealogical researcher, writer& lecturer > Newbies' Guide to Genealogy& Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html > > "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, > and that is not being talked about." > OSCAR WILDE > > > > > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Rosemary, To give you some idea of the housing in that area, check out the www.picturethepast.org.uk website and search for Moores Yard. This was on Pelican Street and was where my Greatgrandmother was on the 1891 census. I do not know, but I imagine that the houses, yards and courts on Chapel Street were very similar. Brian Binns -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rosemary Probert Sent: 17 February 2012 16:45 To: nottinghamshire Mailing List Subject: [NTT] Chapel Street, Radford I'm trying to find out where Chapel Street is/was in Radford. I've been going cross-eyed looking at maps and I wonder if any one can point me in the right direction. I'd also like to find a photo of it or the area, Thank you Rosemary Northumberland UK Email: [email protected] Family History: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rprobert/ Banburyshire Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engcbanb/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Notts Surname List http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4814 - Release Date: 02/16/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4814 - Release Date: 02/16/12 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2112/4814 - Release Date: 02/16/12

I'm trying to find out where Chapel Street is/was in Radford. I've been going cross-eyed looking at maps and I wonder if any one can point me in the right direction. I'd also like to find a photo of it or the area, Thank you Rosemary Northumberland UK Email: [email protected] Family History: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~rprobert/ Banburyshire Website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engcbanb/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've been reading about these divorces mentioned on the list.  I once looked up the history of the "divorce" process, a task that made my wife somewhat nervous.  But it was interesting because I had seen people discussing it on the Lincolnshire mailing list. You can see my findings at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~englin/divorce.htm It includes a discussion of "Wife sales".  I assume that these are no longer allowed in Nottinghamshire, as well.     Lou

From: Shirley Elston <[email protected]> > Talking of divorce earlier,I was married in 1974 to someone and we > were both married before and had to obtain divorce papers to get > married to each other. > I knew my OH had been married before so didn't think anything of it > at the time. > We were together about 40 years altogether,10 of them before we > married and 30 years married and then we divorced just a few years > ago. I learned my ex had died a couple of years ago and for some > unknown reason I was looking on Ancestry at marriages for our > marriage details,just curiosity I suppose,like you do! I was amazed > to see that my ex had been married twice before he married me and > the second marriage had occurred while married still to the first > wife! > Well of course I had to persue this as I started to wonder about my > own marriage,thankfully the second wife had divorced him just a few > months before he married me. The second marriage he had was in the > 60's so at the in between stage of computers which is probably why > he got away with it. He produced the first marriage divorce papers > to marry me. He is dead now so I can't even ask him about it . > During the first 10 years we were together it suited me not to > re-marry after the first disaster and I suppose he didn't persue it > because of what he had done! I must confess I was a bit shocked to > discover this. > > Shirley < Having been in genealogy for around 40 years now, the very first thing I always tell beginners when they ask my advice on how to get started is this: "If you are the sort of person who is going to be upset by what you might discover, then don't even think about doing it!" When I began in the 1970s my late mother was horrified and begged my wife to try and stop me. Why? Because virtually the very first thing I found out was that not only had my father been married before, moreover that he had had an illegitimate daughter by another woman (not his wife) who was my half-sister. As it happens, my sister and I found each other a few years later (she lives in Australia) and we have met a number of times and got to know each other. We still keep in touch now and then via e-mail. I could never understand why my mother was so desperate not for me to find out, a generational thing I suppose. It turned out when I eventually contacted my half-sister that all the family had known about her, my father's brother and sisters had sent her birthday and Christmas cards and presents, but no-one had ever told me! My initial reaction was anger that I had been prevented from knowing I had a sister for the first half of my life, but that has now gone away and we just enjoy keeping in touch. Families and family history is a funny business and anyone who can't accept what they find shouldn't be in it at all! Thanks for giving us your experience, Shirley. -- Roy Stockdill Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about." OSCAR WILDE

Talking of divorce earlier,I was married in 1974 to someone and we were both married before and had to obtain divorce papers to get married to each other. I knew my OH had been married before so didn't think anything of it at the time. We were together about 40 years altogether,10 of them before we married and 30 years married and then we divorced just a few years ago. I learned my ex had died a couple of years ago and for some unknown reason I was looking on Ancestry at marriages for our marriage details,just curiosity I suppose,like you do! I was amazed to see that my ex had been married twice before he married me and the second marriage had occurred while married still to the first wife! Well of course I had to persue this as I started to wonder about my own marriage,thankfully the second wife had divorced him just a few months before he married me. The second marriage he had was in the 60's so at the in between stage of computers which is probably why he got away with it. He produced the first marriage divorce papers to marry me. He is dead now so I can't even ask him about it . During the first 10 years we were together it suited me not to re-marry after the first disaster and I suppose he didn't persue it because of what he had done! I must confess I was a bit shocked to discover this. Shirley ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, 16 February 2012, 8:00 Subject: NOTTSGEN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 48 Today's Topics:   1.  Gladwin/Turner (Jean Wood)   2. Brammer (Wendy Briscoe)   3. HEATH - Mansfield Poor Law Union. (MAVIS JOHNSON)  -thanks       (Julia Pannell) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:18:39 +0100 From: Jean Wood <[email protected]> Subject: [NTT]  Gladwin/Turner To: <[email protected]>, Nottsgen <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Yes, there is a site that lists divorces - it is on fmp, (find my past) but only goes from 1858 t0 1903, and oddly I have indirect people in both first and last years - but nothing in between. So this may not be the right time slot for you ( or it might be - just.) I had an odd discovery of a cover up for an unmarried mother in 1939, which was covered up by the 16 year old appearing under her parental's marriage cert - but I smelled a rat as her mother was already 50! When I investigated further- and bought the relevant certificates (which confirmed my suspicion - too complicated for here) I discovered that the first marriage in 1915 had become a divorce by 1927 when the mother (Dorothy) remarried. Now, I never found the date of the divorce, but this was a well to do family - divorces were expensive - on Dorothy's second marriage cert it states Dorothy (married surname) divorced, (maiden name) and both names appear in the BMD indices. MANY people remarried without benefit of divorce and just hoped it would not be discovered. It was this - discovery of the bigamous marrige in 1858 - which led to the first wife seeking a divorce in my family. (It seems he - my 4 x gr-uncle - was never punished and remarried the 2nd wife to whom he remained devoted for the rest of his life) Finally, have you looked under the name GERMAN for a death? Jean Wood > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:51:35 -0500 > Subject: [NTT] Gladwin/Turner > > Dear list > > I?m hoping someone could help find out more about my G Grandfather William TURNER. This is going to take a bit to explain, so bear with me. This is going to be a bit long winded but I want to get everything down. > My Grandfather was George William TURNER. He was born 5 May 1906 in Hemswell Grange, Lincs. His birth cert. lists his parents as William TURNER and Ellen GLADWIN. I can?t find their marriage. I have found them in 1911 census in Elkesley, East Retford (RG14 Piece 20204). According to the census William was born in Kirton in Lindsay in abt. 1869.(FreeBMD has a couple good fits). Ellen was born abt. 1876 in Whittington, Derby(found her birth). It says they had 4 children. Joseph b.1896 in Whitwell, Derby, Elsie Mable b. 1900 in Whitwell, Derby, my grandfather George and Selina Lynn b. 1908. There is a 6 year gap between Elsie and George. Now here?s where it gets interesting. I tried to find them in 1901 and had no luck. I tried just putting Elsie?s first name and birthplace. I believe I found her in 1901 in Whitwell (piece 3129, folio 25, pg. 2) but with a different last name. In the household was Ellen, Joseph and Elsie but also a husband named Edward JERYMN. I was never abl! e to find to find Joseph or Elsie TURNER on the FreeBmd. I found them as JERYMN. Right dates and district. There is no death listed for a Edward JERYMN (JARMAN)(JERMYN) that fits until 1918. If you have been able to follow my ramblings, what do you think of my hypothesis? Is there a site that lists divorces? Did people just move on and not get a divorce? Should I spend the money and order either Joseph?s or Elsie?s birth cert to be sure or do you think I?m on the wrong track? > Thank you, if you have read this far, for taking the time. > > Karen Walker > Port Dover, Can > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message                         ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:38:29 +0000 From: Wendy Briscoe <[email protected]> Subject: [NTT] Brammer To: [email protected] Message-ID:     <[email protected]om> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Listers, anyone researching the Brammer's from South leverton and Clarebrough willing to share information regarding this line. Kind regards Wendy ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 13:59:59 +1030 From: Julia Pannell <[email protected]> Subject: [NTT] HEATH - Mansfield Poor Law Union. (MAVIS JOHNSON)     -thanks To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii My thanks to Mavis, and I have also replied to her off list, Julia in Oz I am also interested in the Heath family as I have an indirect link - an > Alfred Cutts married a Maria Heath 21 April 1851 at Nottingham St. Marys. > Maria Heath in 1841 was at Cross Court, Radford, with her mother, also > Maria. > > By chance today while clearing some old paperwork I came across a document > dated 7 April 1846 giving names of the elected Guardians of the Mansfield > Poor Law Union showing that a John Heath, Farmer, Blidworth was one. > > I had downloaded this document from the internet as it also included Richard > Cutts, Malster, Mansfield.. > > Reference: Paper Number 4031/8/1846 > Poor Law Union Number 337 . > Counties: Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire. > > I hope this helps. > > Mavis ------------------------------ End of NOTTSGEN Digest, Vol 5, Issue 48 ***************************************

My thanks to Mavis, and I have also replied to her off list, Julia in Oz I am also interested in the Heath family as I have an indirect link - an > Alfred Cutts married a Maria Heath 21 April 1851 at Nottingham St. Marys. > Maria Heath in 1841 was at Cross Court, Radford, with her mother, also > Maria. > > By chance today while clearing some old paperwork I came across a document > dated 7 April 1846 giving names of the elected Guardians of the Mansfield > Poor Law Union showing that a John Heath, Farmer, Blidworth was one. > > I had downloaded this document from the internet as it also included Richard > Cutts, Malster, Mansfield.. > > Reference: Paper Number 4031/8/1846 > Poor Law Union Number 337 . > Counties: Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire. > > I hope this helps. > > Mavis

For Wendy...Maybe not quite what you were looking for!! The Sheffield & Rotherham Independent, Monday April 17th 1876 Nottinghamshire Retford County Petty Sessions Saturday before the Rev. W B SIMPSON, Chairman, B. HUNTSMAN Esq., and John CHAMPION Esq. Desperate Struggle between Females Ann BRAMMER was summoned for assaulting Sarah MOODY at South Leverton on Saturday April 8th. Complainant said that MOODY doubled her fists, struck her on the forehead, threw her into a dyke, the stones cutting her face, which bled profusely. BRAMMER then got upon MOODY, who seized her by the hair and they struggled together for some time. A woman named Mary DALE gave evidence, testifying that BRAMMER commenced the row, and further stated that MOODY’s face was covered with blood. BRAMMER was ordered to pay a fine of five shillings and twenty shillings costs. Diane J. (No links to BRAMMER) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:38:29 +0000 From: Wendy Briscoe <[email protected]> Subject: [NTT] Brammer To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]om> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Listers, anyone researching the Brammer's from South leverton and Clarebrough willing to share information regarding this line. Kind regards Wendy

Hi Listers, anyone researching the Brammer's from South leverton and Clarebrough willing to share information regarding this line. Kind regards Wendy

Yes, there is a site that lists divorces - it is on fmp, (find my past) but only goes from 1858 t0 1903, and oddly I have indirect people in both first and last years - but nothing in between. So this may not be the right time slot for you ( or it might be - just.) I had an odd discovery of a cover up for an unmarried mother in 1939, which was covered up by the 16 year old appearing under her parental's marriage cert - but I smelled a rat as her mother was already 50! When I investigated further- and bought the relevant certificates (which confirmed my suspicion - too complicated for here) I discovered that the first marriage in 1915 had become a divorce by 1927 when the mother (Dorothy) remarried. Now, I never found the date of the divorce, but this was a well to do family - divorces were expensive - on Dorothy's second marriage cert it states Dorothy (married surname) divorced, (maiden name) and both names appear in the BMD indices. MANY people remarried without benefit of divorce and just hoped it would not be discovered. It was this - discovery of the bigamous marrige in 1858 - which led to the first wife seeking a divorce in my family. (It seems he - my 4 x gr-uncle - was never punished and remarried the 2nd wife to whom he remained devoted for the rest of his life) Finally, have you looked under the name GERMAN for a death? Jean Wood > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:51:35 -0500 > Subject: [NTT] Gladwin/Turner > > Dear list > > I’m hoping someone could help find out more about my G Grandfather William TURNER. This is going to take a bit to explain, so bear with me. This is going to be a bit long winded but I want to get everything down. > My Grandfather was George William TURNER. He was born 5 May 1906 in Hemswell Grange, Lincs. His birth cert. lists his parents as William TURNER and Ellen GLADWIN. I can’t find their marriage. I have found them in 1911 census in Elkesley, East Retford (RG14 Piece 20204). According to the census William was born in Kirton in Lindsay in abt. 1869.(FreeBMD has a couple good fits). Ellen was born abt. 1876 in Whittington, Derby(found her birth). It says they had 4 children. Joseph b.1896 in Whitwell, Derby, Elsie Mable b. 1900 in Whitwell, Derby, my grandfather George and Selina Lynn b. 1908. There is a 6 year gap between Elsie and George. Now here’s where it gets interesting. I tried to find them in 1901 and had no luck. I tried just putting Elsie’s first name and birthplace. I believe I found her in 1901 in Whitwell (piece 3129, folio 25, pg. 2) but with a different last name. In the household was Ellen, Joseph and Elsie but also a husband named Edward JERYMN. I was never abl! e to find to find Joseph or Elsie TURNER on the FreeBmd. I found them as JERYMN. Right dates and district. There is no death listed for a Edward JERYMN (JARMAN)(JERMYN) that fits until 1918. If you have been able to follow my ramblings, what do you think of my hypothesis? Is there a site that lists divorces? Did people just move on and not get a divorce? Should I spend the money and order either Joseph’s or Elsie’s birth cert to be sure or do you think I’m on the wrong track? > Thank you, if you have read this far, for taking the time. > > Karen Walker > Port Dover, Can > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Karen, The facts seem to be Edward JERMYN married Ellen GLADWIN in 1896 at Worksop and they had Joseph 1896 and Elsie 1900. In 1901 they are living in Whitwell, Derby. In 1911, Ellen is in Elkesley, Notts supposedly married to William Turner with Joseph, Elsie and George b1906 and Selina b1908. No records have been found for the death of Edward Jermyn or Ellen's marriage to William Turner. Unfortunately, you don't give Edward's occupation. If a seafarer or a miner even, he could be lost and no body found, so no death record. He may have even left the country. Indeed as you suggest there could be a separation or divorce. It seems pertinent that Ellen waited almost exactly seven years, which I think is the legal time for such events. We'll probably never know what happened to Edward. You could check Ancestry for possible deaths all around the world. Did William & Ellen ever marry? Again we may never know. Have you been too restrictive in you searches? Try expanding it to all counties 1901-1937 and leaving out her surname. But in the end. Do either of these records matter? You have your family. You know most of the story. If it happened today, nobody would even blink and eye. Peter

I am also interested in the Heath family as I have an indirect link - an Alfred Cutts married a Maria Heath 21 April 1851 at Nottingham St. Marys. Maria Heath in 1841 was at Cross Court, Radford, with her mother, also Maria. By chance today while clearing some old paperwork I came across a document dated 7 April 1846 giving names of the elected Guardians of the Mansfield Poor Law Union showing that a John Heath, Farmer, Blidworth was one. I had downloaded this document from the internet as it also included Richard Cutts, Malster, Mansfield.. Reference: Paper Number 4031/8/1846 Poor Law Union Number 337 . Counties: Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire. I hope this helps. Mavis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julia Pannell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 5:53 AM Subject: [NTT] WW1 1915, 8 Vernon Street, Worksop, Notts > Hi Notts list, > > My thanks to those who responded to my query on the above topic -Dai, > Peter R Booth, Nivard, Cliff who provided very useful information and > suggestions. Apologies if I have missed anyone. > > I've confirmed that [William Charles] Joseph, aged 12 years, was an inmate > in the Abbeyhurst Workhouse Children's Home (Boys) and his younger > brother, Victor, ditto (Mixed) aged 8 years in the 1911 census. I have > details already of Joseph's whereabouts in the 1901 census. Their mother, > Jane Ellen, died in London, in 1905, leaving a newborn, and two sons aged > 2 and 5. The newborn died not long after in Worksop, so it's POSSIBLE > that their father, Charles Joseph Bunyan took the children from London to > their mother's family in Worksop. > > POSSIBLY, in the 1911 census at 8 Pelham Street, Worksop, the grandparents > of Joseph and Victor are Samson Heath, wife Sarah Elizabeth, together with > their children Frederick Charles, Albert William, Henry Victor, George > Thomas, May Edith and a grandson Herbert William. > > I am awaiting some ordered certificates to confirm the Heath connection. > > If there are any Bunyans or Heaths connected to this family out there, I > would love to hear from them. > > Thanks again, > > Julia in Adelaide, South Australia > > > > > "Private Joseph Bunyan (Canadians) enlisted in the Canadian Over-Seas > Expeditionary Force in 1915. He states that he was born in Portsmouth > [Hampshire] ca 1898 and gives his next of kin as his Grandfather, Mr J? > Heath, who lives at 8 Vernon Street, Worksop, Nottinghamshire. I have a > date of birth index for him in 1900, Alverstoke, Hampshire. It would not > be unusual for young men enlisting in WW1 to put up their age. He may also > have arrived in Canada in 1913 as a 'farm boy'. > > Does Nottinghamshire have any directories on line which I could search, > please? Also, I would be interested to hear from anyone with a connection > to Bunyan and Heath families." > > > > > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I knew I would forget something. I found a marriage between Edward and Ellen in 1896. Karen

Dear list I’m hoping someone could help find out more about my G Grandfather William TURNER. This is going to take a bit to explain, so bear with me. This is going to be a bit long winded but I want to get everything down. My Grandfather was George William TURNER. He was born 5 May 1906 in Hemswell Grange, Lincs. His birth cert. lists his parents as William TURNER and Ellen GLADWIN. I can’t find their marriage. I have found them in 1911 census in Elkesley, East Retford (RG14 Piece 20204). According to the census William was born in Kirton in Lindsay in abt. 1869.(FreeBMD has a couple good fits). Ellen was born abt. 1876 in Whittington, Derby(found her birth). It says they had 4 children. Joseph b.1896 in Whitwell, Derby, Elsie Mable b. 1900 in Whitwell, Derby, my grandfather George and Selina Lynn b. 1908. There is a 6 year gap between Elsie and George. Now here’s where it gets interesting. I tried to find them in 1901 and had no luck. I tried just putting Elsie’s first name and birthplace. I believe I found her in 1901 in Whitwell (piece 3129, folio 25, pg. 2) but with a different last name. In the household was Ellen, Joseph and Elsie but also a husband named Edward JERYMN. I was never able to find to find Joseph or Elsie TURNER on the FreeBmd. I found them as JERYMN. Right dates and district. There is no death listed for a Edward JERYMN (JARMAN)(JERMYN) that fits until 1918. If you have been able to follow my ramblings, what do you think of my hypothesis? Is there a site that lists divorces? Did people just move on and not get a divorce? Should I spend the money and order either Joseph’s or Elsie’s birth cert to be sure or do you think I’m on the wrong track? Thank you, if you have read this far, for taking the time. Karen Walker Port Dover, Can

I would like to thank all the people who were so kind to me and my friend in supplying the information on the Wild/Wilde Family. I should have done this before but I had to take time off to get a Pacemaker inserted, so I apologize for the delay. Thanks to several people who went out of their way to help me by showing me how to find more things on the internet ( you will know who I'm talking about and the lady from Canada who sent me all the census papers). It is good to know great people. All the best and thanks again. Bill James.

Well, the pacemaker clearly serves to enable you to continue to use the lists and continue your research! Good luck and good health - may they follow you for many days! Jean Wood > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 15:27:37 +1000 > Subject: [NTT] Many Thanks. > > I would like to thank all the people who were so kind to me and my friend in supplying the information on the Wild/Wilde Family. I should have done this before but I had to take time off to get a Pacemaker inserted, so I apologize for the delay. Thanks to several people who went out of their way to help me by showing me how to find more things on the internet ( you will know who I'm talking about and the lady from Canada who sent me all the census papers). > It is good to know great people. > All the best and thanks again. > > Bill James. > > > Notts Surname List > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/notts.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Many thanks, Lou, for your information, Julia in Oz Hi, Julia, > > ??? Not all families are listed in all directories.? Many directories only listed people who paid a small fee to be included.? Just because you can't find them listed, doesn't mean they weren't there.? The census is a "safer" place to find them. > > ??????? Lou > > -snip- > > > Does Nottinghamshire have any directories on line which I could > > search, > please? >

My apologies to the list for omitting some relevant details from my post - I knew I was referring to Nottingham. Tired brain! Peter, the marriage took place at the Register Office, Nottingham. Some years ago Nivard found the children in the Nottingham workhouse. All I had on Henry WILLIAMS was his name on Mary's marriage entry. The Lincolnshire birth doesn't fit properly but the spelling of Harriett was the same, and there was a marriage for Henry for the same period. Thank you for looking, especially by occupation which I'm only able to do if I go to the library. I hadn't considered the possibility of Henry placing the children in the workhouse himself. Elizabeth, I think you may have found Mary's birth, and her mother, thank you. I'm reasonably confident about Edward Henry WILLIAMS being Mary's brother so that would appear to confirm her parents. Does anyone think that the register office marriage may have been because Mary was RC and Thomas was not? I'm off to look for Mary SIBYLLE / SIBILLE any help is always appreciated. Kate.

Kate, Unfortunately you didn't give locations for either the workhouse or her marriage. You also omitted Henry's birth year. Assuming she was registered with both given names, FreeBMD has only four possibilities. But it's a big assumption. However, you might search those registration areas for an Edward born a couple of years later. I presume you've favoured the Lincolnshire birth, because of proximity to her place of marriage. If so why not order the certificate. Find My past allows searches by occupation. I searched for Henry Williams, teacher or tutor in 1851 without success. There was one in Bath in 1861. It may be coincidental, but worth checking out. If you're convinced of Lincolnshire, have a look for marriages of Henry Williams in the area. Then check the possibility that his wife died before 1861. It could be that she died in childbirth and so Henry put the children in the workhouse. Lots of possibilities. You need to eliminate some of the obvious ones. Peter