Hi Jim, I can't understand what I've done, but I do remember going into Hirsch's Fortegnelse over Danske og Norske Officers and finding my family there - but I thought I would go into it again this morning, so I could give you the link and I seem to come up with Archives instead - if my brain clicks back into place, then I will let you know, but I do know I printed all the family names out only a week or so ago and now have them in a plastic folder so I can go through them. The prints show Arkivalieronline at the top and show Forsvarets Arkiver, Arkivskabte Hjælpedmidler Hirsch' kartotek over danske og norske officerer - I have pages 108-127 but, as I say, I can't remember how I did it - but I have no doubt it will come back to me in time. In the meantime, perhaps you can access it, as I feel you are more experienced in these things than I am. Unfortunately everyone says these little memory losses as due to 'old age' - how dare they! Confusion still reigns though as I read yet another article which showed that a Fenrik back in 1690 would have been a young boy from a military academy and that seems to fit in with the age shown when my 7x g.grandfather died in 1740 - he was buried in the aisle of Garnisons Kirke in København and his age at death was shown as 63. However, I was told that in Ovenstad's it shows him as born in Germany - Sergeant in Bøynenbourg's infantry regiment 30 March 1689. Hirsch's show him as born in Mark Brandenburg and Fenrik (or Ensign) in the same infantry regiment in 1690 - one of the records must be wrong. But I won't give up! Thank you so much for all your help! Regards, Melva ------ Original Message ------ From: "Jim Wiborg" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: 19/04/2017 6:09:26 AM Subject: Re: [NOR] Boynenbourg's regiment in 1690 >Melva, > > >This is why I follow the Norway list - I often learn things! For >example, >you mentioned Hirsch’s! Thanks! > > >Do you have an online link to Hirsch’s, *Fortegnelse over Danske og >Norske >Offiserer 1648-1814*? I’d love to have such a link (or know where to >buy/borrow/steal a copy/DVD)! > > >––––––––––––––––––––––––– > > >Then you mention “I am not all that good with rankings and get quite >confused…" > > >I’m still quite confused myself and get more so with each passing year, >so >I understand confusion… > > >But (in a case of the blind trying to lead those who can see) here are >some >quick thoughts on Dano-Norwegian Army military ranks (1690 through >1800) >that might help with genealogy research a little… > > >I caution that this isn’t carefully researched (more stream of >consciousness this morning) but it is useful to me to write it out for >my >own use, so… > >––––––––––––––––––––––––– > > > >The basic building block of the Dano-Norwegian Army (or any other army >throughout Europe at the time) consisted of companies of about 100-200 >men. > > > >A number of Dano-Norwegian officers served in armies elsewhere in >Europe >before winding up in Norway (e.g., oberst von Boynenbourg was clearly >not >Norwegian) so they learned from one another. > > >A sample military company (picked out of 1688 because that’s the >closest I >found to your 1690) consisted, from the top down, of: > > >OFFICERS > > 1 Captain – commanding officer of a company (some companies were led >by >premier lieutenants) > > 1 Lieutenant – second in command > > 1 Fenrik (or fænrik) - a trainee (similar to a midshipman in the US >Navy, so not quite an officer, but in training to be one so if he does >well, he’ll become one) > > >ENLISTED > > 1 Master Sergeant – the senior enlisted man, typically a guy with >leadership skills who could motivate and keep order amongst the men > > 2 Sergeants – platoon leaders (a platoon was ~ 30-to-40 men) > > 4 Corporals – squad leaders (a squad was ~8 to 12 men) – squads make >up >platoons > > 10 senior soldiers – led a small team (what is now called a fire >team) – >teams make up squads > > 2 drummers – typically boys – different drum rolls conveyed orders >from >officers to troops during combat – two are handy in case you lose one >in >combat > > 115 Common soldiers – reported to senior soldiers/corporals as >member of >team > > > >––––––––––––––––––––––––– > > > >You’ll notice that military structure provides a certain amount of >redundancy (e.g., an executive officer backs up a commanding officer & >similarly there are several drummers). You expect to lose men in >combat >and have built in replacements throughout the chain of command to keep >the >company in the field & combat effective. > > >––––––––––––––––––––––––– > > > >Men with exceptional skills could see exceptional upward mobility >(especially in periods of combat). I’m aware of at least one man who >proceeded up from common soldier to colonel over a 7 year period. > > >That said, an officer had to have both leadership skills & the ability >to >read & write well (reading & writing was a bit rarer back then). Since >this >required education, you often see the army career descend in a family >(military sons of military fathers). For example I know of 3 sons of >an >officer who became officers, and several of his grandsons were also >officers. > > >Daughters of officers tend to marry officers as well. So looking for >military descendants among the military is sometimes useful. Ovenstad >has a >book on Military officer's wives as well - can find it in google books. > > > >––––––––––––––––––––––––– > > > >Companies were assembled into Regiments composed of perhaps 8 to 20 >companies (roughly 1000 men), typically commanded by an Oberst >(Colonel) or >General. The Regiments commanding officer would have a staff >consisting of: > > 1 Second in command – typically a colonel or major > > 2 or 3 Staff officers – typically majors or captains > > > >––––––––––––––––––––––––– > >At the time (and probably later as well) these regiments were >structured >into armies north of the Dovrefjeld & south of the Dovrefjeld. This was >a >response to the difficulty in communication over such a distance at >that >time. > > > >And they all came together in reporting to the “Statholder” – in 1690 >that >was Ulrich Friderich Gyldneløve – who provided top level command. > > > >––––––––––––––––––––––––– > > >Officers might be billeted on farms designated for that purpose, but >were >well paid by the standards of the day & typically bought farms in the >vicinity of their command. > > >Officers tend to be both easier & harder to track through history. On >the >plus side, they appear in military records and also often own land, >which >shows in the civil records. On the minus side, they may move more >frequently than others. > > > >––––––––––––––––––––––––– > > >Puzzling over history is part of the pleasure of seeking family >history. >Thanks for letting me think about this topic this morning. > > >Best – Jim > > >––––––––––––––––––––––––– > > >*From:* Melva Maguire <[email protected] ><https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&fs=1&tf=1&[email protected]> >> >*Subject:* Re: [NOR] Boynenbourg's regiment in 1690 >*Date:* Tue, 18 Apr 2017 01:14:21 +0000 >*In-Reply-To:* < >[email protected]om> > > >Jim > >Thank you - I have been into Ovenstad now and found my 7x >g.grandfather, >one of his sons, his grandson and his son-in-law and daughter there. >I already had been into Hirsch's and have managed to print out pages >from those files. In Hirsch it has him as what looks like a Fendr in >Boynenbourgs regiment in 1690 and a Lt in Gyldenlow's regiment in 1700 >but in Ovenstad it shows him as Sersj. in Boynenbourgs infantry in 1689 >and Fenr in the same regiment in 1700 and Captain in 1707. As you >will understand, I am not all that good with rankings and get quite >confused - difficult as I am trying to work out just when he could have >been born, so I can try to find his parents. I did try to go into >that other link you sent me https://media but unfortunately couldn't >read it but thanks all the same. I also found an Oberst listed in >Hirschs but am still unable to work out just who he was as there is no >first name - definitely from my family though. > >Thank you again for your help. Regards, Melva >Norwaylist >Archiveshttp://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index?list=norway > >RESUBSCRIBE UNSUB >http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/NOR/NORWAY.html > >guidelines http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~norway/guidelines.htm >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the messagerbiographier Den Næræ