Dear Doris and other Listers! Thanks you very much, Doris, for your willingness to help me out with this problem! YES, I am still VERY INTERESTED in a possible marriage record of John William Anderson and Matilda Webber, whether it be in OR or in WA. I'll be waiting with crossed fingers and toes! Very sincerely yours, Lars E. Oyane ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On Mar 14, 2015, at 11:14 PM, Doris Waggoner via wrote: > Lars, > > City directories usually do have a time lag, of at least a year, for some > people. So "your" Matilda might have still been legally married to J. Wm. > Anderson until 1919, while living with Emory Webber, rather than J. Wm. > Anderson, in the 1917 directory. > > Also, the definition of "common law" marriage is rather slippery. It > doesn't mean living together and "pretending" to be married. In the states > that permit common law marriage, a couple who lives together for a certain > number of years, which varies by state, is legally married after that > length of time. If they want to split up, they would have to get a > divorce. So it's not pretending. "Just living together" is different--it > really is just living together. I'm not sure if there are states where > living together can turn into a common law marriage without a couple > realizing it. I believe I have read a website which clarifies this for the > various states, but given how common it has gotten for couples to forgo the > marriage ceremony these days, I don't know if the difference matters so > much. It is true that in many states now, a couple can register as > "domestic partners" and get the rights and responsibilities of marriage > without being married. The rights include among other things, that if one > dies without a will, the other automatically inherits, and if one is in the > hospital very ill, the other can make health decisions for them. If they > are "just living together," they do not get those privileges. > > However, for the time period you're talking about, the distinction truly > did matter. > > Don't know if this helps! > > Do you still need the marriage of John and Matilda, in the fall of 1919? > If it was in OR or Seattle, and the paperwork still exists, I should be > able to find it for you. > > Doris > > On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 6:37 PM, Lars E. Oyane via <norway@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > >> Dear Listers, >> >> Hoping that Clark doesn't accuse me for hijacking the list again (hehe), I >> would like to relaunch this inquiry regarding John William Anderson and his >> marriage to Mathilda Webber, and maybe even get some help to figure out >> what became of John? I am completely "stuck" on this problem... Maybe >> newspaper clippings can help? >> >> Thanks a million for your wonderful assistance! >> >> Very sincerely yours, >> >> Lars E. Oyane >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Lars E. Oyane via" <norway@rootsweb.com> >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 1:38 PM >>>> To: <norway@rootsweb.com> >>>> Subject: Re: [NOR] 2nd attempt: Mathilda Ellsworth Anderson >>>> (1874-1927) -biography 1913-1920 Portland, OR-Seattle, WA - newspaper >>>> assistance? >>>> >>>>> Dear Listers, >>>>> >>>>> I have started asking myself what really happened in Portland, OR in >> those >>>>> years preceding 1920? >>>>> >>>>> The 1917 Portland city directory shows, among others, these entries: >>>>> >>>>> * J. Wm. Anderson (Matilda), printer, res. 1917 on 308 Jackson >>>>> >>>>> * Emery Webber (Matilda), chimney sweep., res. 690 1/2 E Morrison >>>>> >>>>> Can there be a "time lag" in the city directory? Is it possible that >>>>> Matilda was still "formally" married to Emery Webber until 1919, while >> in >>>>> "reality" she was already in 1917 a "common-law" wife of John William >>>>> Anderson's? >>>>> >>>>> In the WW1 draft records from 1918 Emery Webber is clearly alone, since >>>>> his "nearest relative" was his mother, while John William Anderson's >>>>> "nearest relative" was his wife Matilda? >>>>> >>>>> And yet I am convinced I have the "right" John William Anderson! They >>>>> moved about 1919 to Seattle, King Co., WA where I find them in the city >>>>> directories as follows: >>>>> >>>>> * 1920: John W. Anderson (Matilda), salesman, res. B3716 Angeline >>>>> >>>>> * 1922: John W. Anderson (Matilda), salesman Tent & Awning Co., res. >> 3716 >>>>> Angeline >>>>> >>>>> * 1924: J Wm Anderson (Matilda), res. 4017 23rd Ave SW >>>>> >>>>> * 1925: John W. Anderson (Mathilda), laborer, res. 4017 23rd Ave SW >>>>> >>>>> * 1926: Wm Anderson (Matilda), foreman ST&A Co, res. 4015(!) 23rd Ave >> SW >>>>> >>>>> * 1927: John W Anderson (Mathilda), salesman, res. 4017 23rd Ave SW >>>>> >>>>> Then John married Lucette, and they are together for one year: >>>>> >>>>> * 1928: John W Anderson (Lucette), salesman ST&A Co, res. 713 28th Ave >>>>> >>>>> Lucette remained on the same address, while John moved out. Perhaps >> these >>>>> entries are for him: >>>>> >>>>> * 1929: J W Anderson, res. 2320 41st Ave SW >>>>> >>>>> * 1930: J W Anderson, laborer, res. Hazel, WA >>>>> >>>>> I have always wondered what became of John William Anderson! Any >>>>> suggestions? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks again for your wonderful assistance identifying John William >>>>> Anderson and his wife/wives! >>>>> >>>>> Very sincerely yours, >>>>> >>>>> Lars E. Oyane >>>>> >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 7, 2015, at 7:41 PM, Lars E. Oyane via wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Mark and other Listers! >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark, I have found something very interesting in the WW1 draft record >>>>>> system which makes me wonder whether that divorce "debate" from >> Portland, >>>>>> OR could be a year or more off? >>>>>> >>>>>> Emery Elsworth Webber's WW1 draft record from 1918 shows him as being >>>>>> unmarried and a ship yard worker, and his closest relative was his >> mother >>>>>> Ella Webber! Why would he be accused by Mathilda for NOT beig a ship >>>>>> yard worker, when he already was one? >>>>>> >>>>>> Then I found this in the WW1 draft records: >>>>>> >>>>>> John William ANDERSON, born Aug. 4, 1877, a truck driver residing on >> 492 >>>>>> 1/2 E. Burnside in Portland, OR with nearest relative MATILDA >> ANDERSON, >>>>>> same address. The card is signed Sep. 12, 1918 and has an extra >> notation >>>>>> with a new address: 2957 Charles street, Seattle, WA! >>>>>> >>>>>> John's age is a perfect "match" with Mathilda's 4th husband, and they >> did >>>>>> move to Seattle, WA, so I believe this is the one we want! >>>>>> >>>>>> But then, Emery and Mathilda's divorce must have occurred BEFORE Sep >> of >>>>>> 1918. >>>>>> >>>>>> Next question: Can John and Mathilda's marriage be found in Oregon? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks again for your great assistance in this matter! >>>>>> >>>>>> Very sincerely yours, >>>>>> >>>>>> Lars E. Oyane >>>>>> >>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 7, 2015, at 1:20 PM, Lars E. Oyane via wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Mark, Barbara, Greg and other listers! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "What a wonderful world - and list..." Thanks a million, Mark, for >>>>>>> having discovered the "secret" behind Mathilda's 3rd marriage! It is >>>>>>> just amazing what these newspaper columns may include of >> information, as >>>>>>> long as it's possible to search for names in them! Thanks also to >>>>>>> Barbara and Greg for further comments! If it wasn't for Ellsworth >> being >>>>>>> of German background, I would have thought they were Ole and Lena >>>>>>> arguing in that divorce procedure from Portland...!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Looking around a little bit, I see that Emery Elsworth Webber on his >> WW1 >>>>>>> draft says he was born Oct. 4, 1875, and he was then indeed working >> in >>>>>>> the ship yards!!! The 1880 census for Rice Co., MN gives his >> father's >>>>>>> name as Conrad Weber, and the family obviously got around! In 1900 >> they >>>>>>> were in Grand Forks, ND, but the children born between 1887 and 1896 >>>>>>> were born in Washington! Then by 1910 Conrad had died, and his wife >> had >>>>>>> moved to Portland OR! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now that the "Ellsworth" part of this problem has been solved, I >> hope it >>>>>>> may also be possible to find Mathilda's 4th marriage to John W. >>>>>>> Anderson? They must have been married in the fall of 1919, between >>>>>>> Portland, OR and Seattle, WA? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks again, Mark for once more making my day! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Very sincerely yours, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lars E. Oyane >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 7, 2015, at 10:54 AM, Mark Erickson via wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Oregon Daily Journal (Portland, Oregon) · Sun, Apr 6, 1919 · >> Page >>>>>>>> 10 >>>>>>>> DIVORCE COURT A BUSY PLACE >>>>>>>> E. Ellsworth Webber, a chimney sweep, alleges in a complaint for >>>>>>>> divorce >>>>>>>> that his wife, Matilda, nagged him continually to change his >> vocation >>>>>>>> and seek more lucrative employment in the shipyards