Hello listers, An ancestor drowned in the river in Shields, can someone tell me when Shields was divided - North Shields and South Shields?  I do not have the year of the drowning, knowing when the development took place I could probably find an obituary, before or after the change in Shields, if there was one.  Thanks in advance, Susan   ________________________________ From: Julia Say <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [NMB] Lost at sea 1896-1901 From: Nivard Ovington - Subject: Re: [NMB] Lost at sea 1896-1901 >In the case of John LAKE even though there is evidence he was drowned in >1899 there is no death registered in that year for a John LAKE death >at sea (or anywhere else for that matter) which is as I would expect. Thank you to everyone for all the information, very helpful. >heaven knows where a body a mile of Northshields would be taken by the tide! apparently, according to local lifeboat personnel, they go northwards. It can take some time, but remains have been found as far as Shetland. "the lifeboatmen don't talk about it much" said John Lake's gt-grandson of his friends who are in the lifeboats - in a tone of voice which implied its not a pleasant job, finding and retrieving such. JUlia .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I would have thought that they were always separate, as one is on the north bank of the Tyne and the other on the south. Karen On 14 March 2013 15:23, Susan C <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello listers, > > An ancestor drowned in the river in Shields, can someone tell me when > Shields was divided - North Shields and South Shields? I do not have the > year of the drowning, knowing when the development took place I could > probably find an obituary, before or after the change in Shields, if there > was one. > > >

Susan C <[email protected]> wrote: >An ancestor drowned in the river in Shields, can someone tell me when >Shields was divided - North Shields and South Shields?  I do not have >the year of the drowning, knowing when the development took place I >could probably find an obituary, before or after the change in >Shields, if there was one.  Hi Susan Shields was never "divided". The river which separates North and South Shields was in its current position long before the two settlements existed - indeed millions of years before there were any humans on the planet. South Shields, often just called "Shields" had its origins in prehistoric times - North Shields developed in the 13th century. Brian -- Brian Pears (Joint List Admin - NORTHUMBRIA Mailing List)

Brian: I am more than a little puzzled at how Susan's message came through to you - and you have answered it - although it hasn't yet reached me. Cyberspace must be a lot thinner over Gateshead than it is over Washington! Perhaps the message got lost in a hailstorm. As far as the question itself is concerned, I am reminded of the 13th or 14th century letter from Newcastle Corporation to the King, which I always love quoting, especially to people from South Shields. The Corporation were complaining that their monopoly of trade on the Tyne was being infringed by land-owners further down the river luring ships in to quays they had built on their own land. The Corporation said "The Prior of Tynemouth has established a town at North Shields - and the Prior of Durham has established a town at South Shields, where no town ought to be". Apart from anything else this is a good example of how much the church in its various guises controlled the land at that time. The Benedictine monastery at Durham had been re-organised by the Normans and had obtained a merger with the more or less derelict monastery of Jarrow, which gave it all of both Jarrow and and South Shields, as well as the remains of the Venerable (now Saint) Bede, which they removed to Durham Cathedral. They were even more aggressive than that, however, and had set their sights on taking over the very solvent monastery of Tynemouth, leading Tynemouth to seek a "friendly take-over" from the southern monastery of St Albans in order to protect themselves from Durham. There would therefore not be much love lost betwen the landlords of the two Shields, although both were no doubt similar fishing communities, doing their best to make the move up to becoming general cargo ports. The "Shields" were presumably rows of fishermen's houses, elsewhere called "fisher biggins", a derivation used elsewhere on the Northumberland coast - at Newbiggin, for instance - and which could possibly even be behind the name of the Bryggen area of Bergen, across the North Sea in Norway. It may be adviseable to mention to those unfamiliar with the NE of England that North Shields has historically been part of Northumberland and South Shields has historically been part of Co Durham, the boundary being the River Tyne. Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: Brian Pears <[email protected]> To: northumbria <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 17:26 Subject: Re: [NMB] Lost at sea 1896-1901 Susan C <[email protected]> wrote: >An ancestor drowned in the river in Shields, can someone tell me when >Shields was divided - North Shields and South Shields? I do not have >the year of the drowning, knowing when the development took place I >could probably find an obituary, before or after the change in >Shields, if there was one. Hi Susan Shields was never "divided". The river which separates North and South Shields was in its current position long before the two settlements existed - indeed millions of years before there were any humans on the planet. South Shields, often just called "Shields" had its origins in prehistoric times - North Shields developed in the 13th century. Brian -- Brian Pears (Joint List Admin - NORTHUMBRIA Mailing List) .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Geoff, Thank you for that, I learn something about England every day.  Your help is appreciated. Regards, Susan ________________________________ From: Geoff Nicholson <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [NMB] Lost at sea 1896-1901 Brian:     I am more than a little puzzled at how Susan's message came through to you - and you have answered it - although it hasn't yet reached me.  Cyberspace must be a lot thinner over Gateshead than it is over Washington!  Perhaps the message got lost in a hailstorm.     As far as the question itself is concerned, I am reminded of the 13th or 14th century letter from Newcastle Corporation to the King, which I always love quoting, especially to people from South Shields.  The Corporation were complaining that their monopoly of trade on the Tyne was being infringed  by land-owners further down the river luring ships in to quays they had built on their own land.  The Corporation said "The Prior of Tynemouth has established a town at North Shields - and the Prior of Durham has established a town at South Shields, where no town ought to be".     Apart from anything else this is a good example of how much the church in its various guises controlled the land at that time.  The Benedictine monastery at Durham had been re-organised by the Normans and had obtained a merger with the more or less derelict monastery of Jarrow, which gave it all of both Jarrow and and South Shields, as well as the remains of the Venerable (now Saint) Bede, which they removed to Durham Cathedral.  They were even more aggressive than that, however, and had set their sights on taking over the very solvent monastery of Tynemouth, leading Tynemouth to seek a "friendly take-over" from the southern monastery of St Albans in order to protect themselves from Durham.     There would therefore not be much love lost betwen the landlords of the two Shields, although both were no doubt similar fishing communities, doing their best to make the move up to becoming general cargo ports.  The "Shields" were presumably rows of fishermen's houses, elsewhere called "fisher biggins", a derivation used elsewhere on the Northumberland coast - at Newbiggin, for instance - and which could possibly even be behind the name of the Bryggen area of Bergen, across the North Sea in Norway.     It may be adviseable to mention to those unfamiliar with the NE of England that North Shields has historically been part of Northumberland and South Shields has historically been part of Co Durham, the boundary being the River Tyne.                                             Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: Brian Pears <[email protected]> To: northumbria <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 17:26 Subject: Re: [NMB] Lost at sea 1896-1901 Susan C <[email protected]> wrote: >An ancestor drowned in the river in Shields, can someone tell me when >Shields was divided - North Shields and South Shields?  I do not have >the year of the drowning, knowing when the development took place I >could probably find an obituary, before or after the change in >Shields, if there was one.  Hi Susan Shields was never "divided". The river which separates North and South Shields was in its current position long before the two settlements existed - indeed millions of years before there were any humans on the planet. South Shields, often just called "Shields" had its origins in prehistoric times - North Shields developed in the 13th century. Brian -- Brian Pears (Joint List Admin - NORTHUMBRIA Mailing List) .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message