This thread gives rise to several points, all to do with English practice as opposed to Scottish or to that of N America. In the 19th century and before (and probably for some time after) Scots tended to use the mother's maiden name as a second Christian name, and it was probably the large Scottish element in the emigrants to N America, especially to Canada, which took that practice over there. Likewise the practice of married ladies continuing to use their maiden surname along with their husband's after marriage. Both those things are common in Scotland and in N America but rare in England. Another source of misunderstanding is the baptism entries made during the "Barrington Period" (1798-1812), when Shute Barrington, Bishop of Durham insisted on very detailed entries of baptism be made in all parish registers within his Diocese, corresponding roughly with the two counties of Northumberland and Co Durham (minus Hexhamshire and plus Alston). The maiden surname of the mother was recorded in all cases but it was often not only put into the main body of the entry, where she would be described as "Mary Jones" - and sometimes as "Mary Jones, daughter of John Jones" but was also noted alongside the father's surname, making it seem that it had been used as a "second Christian Name" when probably it actually hadn't. The confusion was probably made worse by the otherwise excellent transcripts made by Herbert Maxwell Wood in c1890-c1910, where he also "brought out" the mother's maiden name and put it alongside the surname, as in the registers. Some of the Wood transcripts were typed up, and others were eventually printed, by the DNPRS, which makes that layout seem more "official" and therefore "correct". As I understand it, it was the Wood transcripts wich were used, at first anyway, for the old LDS "Computer File Index" or CFI, which became the International Genealogical Index or IGI. I cannot help feeling, however, that it was usually all just the whim of the clerk, he trying to conform to Barrington's instructions and that the person themselves may not have known about it and so never actually used that version of their name in adult life. Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: Susan C <[email protected]> To: northumbria <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:46 Subject: Re: [NMB] Naming the culprit? Hello everyone, I thought the middle name (someone's last name) was to honor the godfather or grandparent....I am having the same problem of an ancestor b. 1827, but in Scotland, and searching for him in Northumbria (marriage, UK Merchant's Navy Seaman Records, deaths, etc.). I have an idea that he may have kept the last name and changed the middle name, or not have a middle name. Which makes it a real challenge. Susan ________________________________ From: Alan <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [NMB] Naming the culprit? In my tree in one instance I have six siblings in total comprising of both males and females and every one of them has their mothers maiden name in with in theirs. No I am not trying to claim a record here it is simply a case of a fact. Alan. -----Original Message----- From: knight frances Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 6:10 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NMB] Naming the culprit? Hi Folks my mum was given her 'real' fathers name as a middle name, she never knew him and to me it seems pointless. It is no good for those of us doing our family tree, there is no way you can contact a family whose deceased relative fits the bill and ask for information about them, so you're stuck. Fran On 18 March 2013 15:06, JohnH <[email protected]> wrote: > Given the propensity of mothers of illegitimate children to include the > putative father's surname as a middle name I was interested to see the > following in the baptisms for Earsdon > > Fenwick Vickerson Kell son Susana Kell (singlewoman) bap 12 Jun 1824 by > Rev > Henry Waikman. The date of birth is given but the year difficult to read, > probably born 25 Oct 1818?. The Rev. Waikman had been performing baptisms > since well before that time. > > John Heckels > > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have noted this practice among my Temple ancestors of Northumberland in the 1700's and 1800's. Mike Temple. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Nicholson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [NMB] Naming the culprit? > > This thread gives rise to several points, all to do with English > practice as opposed to Scottish or to that of N America. In the 19th > century and before (and probably for some time after) Scots tended to use > the mother's maiden name as a second Christian name, and it was probably > the large Scottish element in the emigrants to N America, especially to > Canada, which took that practice over there. Likewise the practice of > married ladies continuing to use their maiden surname along with their > husband's after marriage. Both those things are common in Scotland and in > N America but rare in England. > > Another source of misunderstanding is the baptism entries made during > the "Barrington Period" (1798-1812), when Shute Barrington, Bishop of > Durham insisted on very detailed entries of baptism be made in all parish > registers within his Diocese, corresponding roughly with the two counties > of Northumberland and Co Durham (minus Hexhamshire and plus Alston). The > maiden surname of the mother was recorded in all cases but it was often > not only put into the main body of the entry, where she would be described > as "Mary Jones" - and sometimes as "Mary Jones, daughter of John Jones" > but was also noted alongside the father's surname, making it seem that it > had been used as a "second Christian Name" when probably it actually > hadn't. The confusion was probably made worse by the otherwise excellent > transcripts made by Herbert Maxwell Wood in c1890-c1910, where he also > "brought out" the mother's maiden name and put it alongside the surname, > as in the registers. Some of the Wood tra! > nscripts were typed up, and others were eventually printed, by the DNPRS, > which makes that layout seem more "official" and therefore "correct". As > I understand it, it was the Wood transcripts wich were used, at first > anyway, for the old LDS "Computer File Index" or CFI, which became the > International Genealogical Index or IGI. I cannot help feeling, however, > that it was usually all just the whim of the clerk, he trying to conform > to Barrington's instructions and that the person themselves may not have > known about it and so never actually used that version of their name in > adult life. > > Geoff Nicholson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan C <[email protected]> > To: northumbria <[email protected]> > Sent: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:46 > Subject: Re: [NMB] Naming the culprit? > > > Hello everyone, > > I thought the middle name (someone's last name) was to honor the godfather > or > grandparent....I am having the same problem of an ancestor b. 1827, but in > Scotland, and searching for him in Northumbria (marriage, UK Merchant's > Navy > Seaman Records, deaths, etc.). I have an idea that he may have kept the > last > name and changed the middle name, or not have a middle name. Which makes > it a > real challenge. > > Susan > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Alan <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 12:35 PM > Subject: Re: [NMB] Naming the culprit? > > In my tree in one instance I have six siblings in total comprising of both > males and females and every one of them has their mothers maiden name in > with in theirs. > No I am not trying to claim a record here it is simply a case of a fact. > Alan. > > -----Original Message----- > From: knight frances > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 6:10 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [NMB] Naming the culprit? > > Hi Folks > my mum was given her 'real' fathers name as a middle name, she never knew > him and to me it seems pointless. It is no good for those of us doing our > family tree, there is no way you can contact a family whose deceased > relative fits the bill and ask for information about them, so you're > stuck. > Fran > > > > On 18 March 2013 15:06, JohnH <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Given the propensity of mothers of illegitimate children to include the >> putative father's surname as a middle name I was interested to see the >> following in the baptisms for Earsdon >> >> Fenwick Vickerson Kell son Susana Kell (singlewoman) bap 12 Jun 1824 by >> Rev >> Henry Waikman. The date of birth is given but the year difficult to read, >> probably born 25 Oct 1818?. The Rev. Waikman had been performing baptisms >> since well before that time. >> >> John Heckels >> >> .. >> Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any >> reply...... Thank you! >> >> The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at >> http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message