Hi all Trying to find info on Jane Carnagey born 1785, possibly in Chollerton, married James Lunn in 1819 in Elsdon. Recorded on census as living in Otterburn. Son Walter Lunn born 1823. Walter & Jane were convicted in 1844. Walter got 6 months for larceny and Jane 1 month for receiving stolen goods. Trying to find her parents but have hit a brick wall. Thank you Linda Shaw

Linda: You don't say where you have looked for Jane's baptism. The obvious place is Chollerton parish register but there were a few non-C of E chapels in the district - not in Chollerton, true, but several in Hexham, which was the local market town (still is). If she is not to be found in Chollerton register or in any of the Hexham non-C of E ones, then you could look at nearby N Tynedale parishes. If you do, then don't forget the often-overlooked Chapelry of Birtley, a tiny place, but not too far from Chollerton. Carnegy/Carnegie etc is usually taken to have been of Scottish origin, so perhaps she had really been born on that side of the Border. You don't give your source for believing she had been born in Chollerton, but I shall assume that it was the census, which is a dubious source as it is very often wrong! Do you have this information from just one census or have you traced her through several, giving her birthplace as Chollerton in each of them? If the family were first-generation immigrants from Scotland then if Jane was born in England they could well have had her baptised in a Presbyterian church - have you looked at those in Falstone and Birdhopecraig? Have you looked at the actual 1819 Elsdon marriage register - or even at the BTs of it? That would tell you who the witnesses were at the wedding. Sometimes that includes one or both parents, or a brother, say, who may have had the same name as his father. If she was born in 1785 (more unconfirmed census information?) then she was aged about 34 when she married, so perhaps she was not the sort of young girl who would have had her father standing beside (or behind) her. With a similar caveat, have you also checked whether the wedding was by Licence? Have you ensured she was not a widow when she married? If she had been married before, then she would have been baptised, wherever, under a name other than Carnegie. Crime, some of it organised, was endemic in that part of Northumberland at the time of Jane's birth and youth - and I'm afraid many of the criminals went under aliases, so we can't really be certain without confirmatory evidence that she really had ever been a Carnegie at all - nor that her husband really was a Lunn (a Yorkshire, rather than a Northumberland surname) - see various publications and papers by eg George Bell, Barry Redfearn, etc, on that topic, especially on the Winter gang (I think Ken Brown once wrote a paper for the NDFHS Journal on them: NB - WInter's gibbet!). I suspect you have a difficult one, but it is therefore one which may require painstaking, thorough research to get through to the facts. A search of Northumberland etc Court Records might reveal whether Jane or her husband had any previous "form" or whether their single known crime was just a "one-off"! Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: Linda Shaw <[email protected]> To: NORTHUMBRIA <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, 6 May 2013 15:19 Subject: [NMB] CARNAGEY/LUNN Hi all Trying to find info on Jane Carnagey born 1785, possibly in Chollerton, married James Lunn in 1819 in Elsdon. Recorded on census as living in Otterburn. Son Walter Lunn born 1823. Walter & Jane were convicted in 1844. Walter got 6 months for larceny and Jane 1 month for receiving stolen goods. Trying to find her parents but have hit a brick wall. Thank you Linda Shaw .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi There is a brief item in the Newcastle Courant 14 Feb 1844 noting the committal for trial of Jane & Walter Lunn of Otterburn - Walter charged with stealing a box containing hardware and jewellery belonging to Fran. McDermott, a hawker, & Jane charged with receiving. The details of the sentence are reported on 1 March 1844. I can see a James & Jane Lunn in Otterburn in the 1841 census, with a Carnegy child in the household. James is a weaver born in Scotland. Is the Walter Lunn in Earsdon your family member? Have you confirmed the relationship between Walter and Jane? And Walter and James? Have you Walter's baptism or his marriage? If you track any children James and Jane have had, then these may provide clues to help you move backwards. I am not sure how much info you have about this later generation? In 1851, there are 2 widowed Jane Lunns in the area of the right age. One is in Otterburn village, as is consistent with the earlier & later census entries. This Jane is living next to John & Isabella Young as per 1841. The other is in Troughend (HO107/2417 folio 83 p13). This Troughend Jane Lunn is described as the aunt of Henry Temple who is aged 43. This Jane Lunn is a pauper and a soldier's widow. The household above is headed by another Henry Temple, with a 64 year old wife Ann and a Carnegie stepdaughter and 2 year old grandaughter Ann Temple Carnegie. I can't see this Troughend Jane in 1841 or after 1851. I see from FreeBMD that a Jane Lunn's death is registered in June Q 1853, Bellingham reg district. Have you disentangled these entries? I have seen a number of posts from a lister undertaking research on his Temple family in this area, and perhaps he may be able to help with the Temple households. You could also check the archives for this list. I agree with the comments that you need to search non-conformist records. I have checked a transcript of Harbottle Presbyterian Chapel baps (because I have it, not because it is the most likely :). There is a James Lunn, son of John and Mary Lunn, Harbottle, born 28 June 1791 & baptised 10 July 1791. People could easily be born in one country but baptised in another, however in this case the short period between birth and baptism seems to suggest that this is unlikely. The age is not a great fit either. Here is a link to the Bishop's Transcripts mentioned by Geoff. They need to be viewed as you would a film - they have not been indexed. I can't see Elsdon in the BTs, but Chollerton and some nearby parishes are there. These are just C of E records and all have gaps, but even if you find only burials these can be very helpful. https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1309819 Here is a link to an on-line version of Elsdon parish registers 1672 - 1812: http://archive.org/stream/registersbaptis00goog/registersbaptis00goog_djvu.txt www.freereg.org.uk seems to have at least begun the process of transcribing Chollerton parish baptisms. To access the non-con records mentioned by Geoff, if you do not live locally you could see what is available through the LDS film catalogue and order films to view at your nearest family history centre. See www.familysearch.org Hope there is something useful here. Ingrid On 6/05/2013, at 10:29 PM, Linda Shaw wrote: > Hi all > > Trying to find info on Jane Carnagey born 1785, possibly in Chollerton, married James Lunn in 1819 in Elsdon. Recorded on census as living in Otterburn. Son Walter Lunn born 1823. > > Walter & Jane were convicted in 1844. Walter got 6 months for larceny and Jane 1 month for receiving stolen goods. > > Trying to find her parents but have hit a brick wall. > > Thank you > Linda Shaw > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message