Isabella's parents and at least three of her siblings are buried in the churchyard at St. Francis: both stones are still legible, though the long grass is beginning to take its toll. Melvyn. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Temple" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn Pre 1826, "The Presbyterian worship place at the back of Woolaw", this would be the original Birdhopecraig chapel, near the Sillsburnfoot, North end of Rochester village. The local Presbyterians also used a burial ground at the back of a ruined chapel at Byrness, before the building of St. Francis chapel in 1798 on that same area. Mike Temple. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melvyn Hunter" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn Hi, Many thanks for your time and effort. I know both these families: my great-uncle used to stay with the Thomas Hunter you mentioned, think he was a cousin - only later did we discover that he was not related at all. James was his son. A grandson of Thomas' moved to Buckinghamshire and I knew his daughter for many years prior to her death in 2006. The Douglass' you mentioned were children of 'my'Isabella's' younger brother. I have had close contact with the descendants of another brother of Isabella: strangely, both these families have spelled the surname with ss at the end. Most of the ones buried in Horsley were baptised at Otterburn. I have also tracked the other children of Ralph and Isabella, and have the details of all bar one through to demise. So far as pre-1826 services are concerned, I came across documents at the Central Library that mentioned a Presbyterian worship place at the 'back of Woollaw', this being used as far back as the days of Padon preaching in the open. Ralph Hunter had a brother who settled in Falstone where there is a presbyterian church as well as an Anglican one. Your mention of the minister of Flastone reminded me - perhaps there is a link. Again, many thanks - lots more things to try. Melvyn. ----- Original Message ----- From: "gen listlass" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn Melvyn I had a look at some resources at Woodhorn yesterday for your Hunters and Douglass's. Re: the missing gravestone for Isabella HUNTER. I looked at the MI's for Holy Trinity, Horsley church transcribed by Phil Thirkell in 1989. There are two Hunter gravestones indexed but neither are for Isabella 1 Number 42 Thomas beloved husband of Anne Elisabeth HUNTER who died 19 May 1932 aged 82 years and the above Anne Elisabeth HUNTER died 7 Sept 1938 aged 86 years “At Rest” 2 Number 80 In memory of Margaret wife of James HUNTER who died at Rochester Feb 18, 1868 aged 45. James HUNTER who died Sept 30th 1899 aged 80 years. Robert their son died Oct 21, 1887 aged 22 years. Elisabeth their daughter died Jul 26, 1889 aged 26John their son who died Feb 15, 1929 aged 72 yearsEleanor Robinson HUNTER who died at Rochester 25 Sept 1937 aged 84 years I also checked for the DOUGLAS family and found only one MI : Number 33 Erected to the memory of Mary DOUGLASS who died at Sills Apr 23 1900 aged 78 years.Also Douglass DOUGLASS who died at Sills Fe 23 1901 aged 59 years.Also John DOUGLASS who died at Sills Feb 20 1904 aged 72 yearsAlso Robert DOUGLASS who died at Sills Dec 30 1912 aged 88 years You possibly already have these OR they are not your family but the place-name "Sills" seems a likely match. DOUGLASS was always spelled with a double "ss" at the end. As for the marriage of Ralph HUNTER and Isabella DOUGLASS:I checked the Crossborder marriage lists (Misc 57) from the Berwick and Kelso newspapers between 1835-1843 but found no marriage for these two reported to the newspapers. I checked the Lamberton Toll marriage between 1839-1841 but nothing. I checked Mordington between the same dates, 3 HUNTER grooms but no Ralph's. However there are more Cross Border Marriage books to check still. When I came home I looked at the 1841 census for Ralph and Isabella and they seem to be living separately He is an "ag lab" and she is a FS = female servant. It doesn't say whether they are married or unmarried but I would guess not as Isabella is down as Isabella DOUGLASS. Therefore with their first child being 8 on the 1851 census, I would have put their marriage between 1841 and 1844-ish, not 1840 unless you have other information. I looked at a baptism book for Birdhopecraig Presbyterian chapel (UR/P6/1/1/1/1) which had a few marriages in the back. Strangely they date from 1835--1903. (1835/6 were surprising for English Presbyterian marriages!) In 1835 there are two marriages at "the Carterhead"In 1836 there are 2 marriages at "Cocklaw"In 1838 there is one marriage at "Carterhead" all these marriages are performed by Geo. McFie minister In 1840 there were 2 marriages performed at "the Scotch church Birdhope Craig" by James ....?mont minister and "in the Scotch church here" by the minister of Falstone Geo. O Moffatt After that date things settle down to regular marriages, although very few, at Birdhopecraig Presb. chapel by a seemingly permanent minister. Although BHC chapel was built in 1826 according to "British Listed Buildings" webpage, it seems as though marriages were performed pre-1837 at other rural locations. The Carterhead and Cocklaw could have been farms, private houses, field chapel meetings or anywhere non-Conformist people worshiped together at that time. I've given this information about BHC at some length to show how sketchy some of the records and the marriages sometimes were. If your people were married at BHC they were not noted in this register. But absence of proof is not proof of absence! This marriage needs further investigation:-) Gen in NBL England > Although I have not come across any hard evidence, since most books I have > read for the area strongly imply no argument between denominations, the > information I have for my Hunter and Douglas families in Redesdale is that > the Douglas family were probably more religious than the Hunter family. > Perhaps the Douglas parents were not too keen on Isabella marrying an > Anglican and so Ralph and Isabella decided to nip over the border and get > married. Their middle child (my great-grandfather) trained at Otterburn > and > then moved to Galashiels to work in the tweed mills before moving further > north. He was appointed a deacon of Ladhope Free Church and later was > awarded for being a Free Kirk Sunday School teacher for 52 years in > total - > his mother's church background was obviously a strong influence in his > early > life. > > Melvyn. .. 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