Thanks to all you responded with details of James and Elizabeth Fothergill. As I now know that Elizabeth was a widow at the 1851 census, I 'assume' that husband James Fothergill died either in first quarter 1850 or first quarter 1851 Newcastle. Therir children have baptisms at All Saints, Newcastle where father James is described as a 'rope maker' of Lime St, Newcastle. The children would appear to be Joshua born 1827 William born 1830 Robert born 1832 James born 1835 did he die because: James bapt 11.6.1837 Margaret bapt 15.9.1839 James bapt 1.1.1842 the third 'James' By the time of the 1841 census the first two James' must have died and also Margaret because they are on the 1841 Census as Fotherngill, James and Elizabeth and children Joshua, William and Robert. That leaves me with a couple of problems because there is believed to be another daughter of the marriage, Jane baptised 21.4.1844 St Peters Wallsend (Bishops Transcripts page 329), where father James is described as a 'ropemaker' of Willington Quay. She is later stated to have married George Wallace 1864 and died 11.11.1889 If this is correct, where was she on the 1851 and 1861 Census? Also James (bapt 1.1.1842) also seems to have disappeared by the 1851 Census (however he has been reported as died in 1860 though !) Am I mixing up two families named James and Elizabeth Fothergill? Many thanks to anyone who can help Mike Fairless