In a message dated 11/11/2009 12:27:44 GMT Standard Time, michael.fairless@eds.com writes: Apart from that I have nothing further to go except that on the 1871 census she is given as age 28, 1881 38, 1891 48, 1901 47 and 1911 68 and always born Newcastle >>>>> Hi Mike, Drawing a blank here, unless (and in the middle of this I read Geoff's email) she was actually born in Ireland, which corresponds to the family Geoff mentions, in 1851, starting with Dorothy, who are all in-laws of a Thomas Hauralby,Ancestry transcript, (could be Hanratty) b Ireland and his wife Bridget. In 1861, possibly the same Ellen, listed as Ellie, barmaid, b Ireland, living with Uncle John Collins, single, licensed victualler, b 1811 Ireland. Another niece, Bessie Kearnden(?) aged 21, b Ireland also present. RGO9 3826 Folio 40 page 2 address 150, Pilgrim Street, All Saints. The marriage ref for Joseph and Ellen, from FreeBMD is Jun qtr 1866 Newcastle T 10b 29 The marriage comes up on an Ancestry search, with the correct date, but there is no scan available (unlike the London Area transcripts, where we get the actual register). That looks like your best option. Regards Hazel "Life is a roller-coaster...........just got to ride it!"