Tyne and Wear Archives have an excellent collection of old playbills/Theatre Bills. It would be worth an enquiry there. Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: John Gosling via <northumbria@rootsweb.com> To: kenmar.white <kenmar.white@btopenworld.com> CC: northumbria <northumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sun, 8 Mar 2015 15:59 Subject: Re: [NMB] Mill House, Willington Quay Hi Margery, Thanks. Could well be. I'm wondering if he ever advertised locally, as playbills would surely give a location. So far I've not found anything in the papers of the time, but will keep looking. John On 8 Mar 2015 15:21, kenmar.white@btopenworld.com wrote: > > I wonder if this pop up theatre was put on the land of the demolished Mill House, this was a flour mill owned by a Joseph Proctor in the days of the haunting and the mill still stands even though it has been modernised now, the adjoining Mill House was his family home, from what I can gather he didn't live in it for long > > Margery .. Please quote the minimum necessary to put your reply on context. Please introduce yourself at the top of every post. The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Margery, Thanks. Could well be. I'm wondering if he ever advertised locally, as playbills would surely give a location. So far I've not found anything in the papers of the time, but will keep looking. John On 8 Mar 2015 15:21, kenmar.white@btopenworld.com wrote: > > I wonder if this pop up theatre was put on the land of the demolished Mill House, this was a flour mill owned by a Joseph Proctor in the days of the haunting and the mill still stands even though it has been modernised now, the adjoining Mill House was his family home, from what I can gather he didn't live in it for long > > Margery

I wonder if this pop up theatre was put on the land of the demolished Mill House, this was a flour mill owned by a Joseph Proctor in the days of the haunting and the mill still stands even though it has been modernised now, the adjoining Mill House was his family home, from what I can gather he didn't live in it for long Margery Sent from my iPhone > On 8 Mar 2015, at 11:28, JOHN GOSLING via <northumbria@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > So Mill House was obviously just where they were lodging with the "portable theatre" one would assume very close by. > > John > > > > ________________________________ > From: Geoff Nicholson <geoff.nicholson@aol.co.uk> > To: jd.gosling@btinternet.com; northumbria@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, 5 March 2015, 19:31 > Subject: Re: [NMB] Mill House, Willington Quay > > > > John: > > I know nothing of any theatre in the area - would not "Music Hall" be more likely to be the more precise description? However, as you don't mention it and therefore don't seem to know, I should tell you that to those people who believe in ghosts (I don't!), Willington Mill, which is now long demolished, had the reputation of being the "Most haunted building on Tyneside". Apparently the ghosts were of a nasty, vindictive type and therefore local people would avoid that building as much as possible. No doubt others will be able to give you chapter and verse. > > Geoff Nicholson > .. > Please quote the minimum necessary to put your reply on context. Please introduce yourself at the top of every post. > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I've solved the mystery of the "theatre". There is a story in the Jan 3rd 1888 edition of the Shields Daily Gazette, which makes reference to a petty sessions in which James Hunter was brought up for not having a license for a "portable theatre" at Willington Quay. He apparently rented the land. So it looks like James and family were moving from town to town, putting up the theatre where ever they could. That certainly fits the census, birth and marriage records, which has the family all over the  place - James married in Scotland, and though I have not looked yet the details, I can see from newspaper indexes that the name James Hunter crops up a lot in regard to Theatre listings in Scotland. It seems like he was a bit of fixture toward the end of his life at Willington Quay, as the publication The Era, of Aug 29th 1896 contains a quite detailed history of the theatres of Tyneside, and mades reference (in a rather odd turn of phrase) to the "happy hunting grounds of the late James Hunter and his dramatic booth". The article vaguely suggests that the original Theatre was still standing in 1896, with the rumour to the effect that the new owner intended to reopen. So Mill House was obviously just where they were lodging with the "portable theatre" one would assume very close by. John ________________________________ From: Geoff Nicholson <geoff.nicholson@aol.co.uk> To: jd.gosling@btinternet.com; northumbria@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 5 March 2015, 19:31 Subject: Re: [NMB] Mill House, Willington Quay John:        I know nothing of any theatre in the area - would not "Music Hall" be more likely to be the more precise description?  However, as you don't mention it and therefore don't seem to know, I should tell you that to those people who believe in ghosts (I don't!), Willington Mill, which is now long demolished, had the reputation of being the "Most haunted building on Tyneside".  Apparently the ghosts were of a nasty, vindictive type and therefore local people would avoid that building as much as possible.  No doubt others will be able to give you chapter and verse.                 Geoff Nicholson

There was a notice at Woodhorn this week on the Search room doors and counter: " due to unavoidable staff shortages" they will be closed next Saturday, the 14th March 2015. It is ONLY the search room that will be closed that day, the Museum and the Lego exhibition will still be open. Back to normal the following week, hopefully. Gen in NBL England

I see they've still got their priorities right, then! Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: Gen ListLass via <northumbria@rootsweb.com> To: northumbria <northumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sun, 8 Mar 2015 11:27 Subject: [NMB] WARNING - Northumberland Archives at Woodhorn CLOSED next Saturday There was a notice at Woodhorn this week on the Search room doors and counter: " due to unavoidable staff shortages" they will be closed next Saturday, the 14th March 2015. It is ONLY the search room that will be closed that day, the Museum and the Lego exhibition will still be open. Back to normal the following week, hopefully. Gen in NBL England .. Please quote the minimum necessary to put your reply on context. Please introduce yourself at the top of every post. The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It sounds like a Punch and Judy Show! >>to the "happy hunting grounds of the late James Hunter and his dramatic booth".

This intrigues me. I had never thought of trying to establish an ancestral connection to a ghost! However it does seem to offer the possibility that you might just hear a voice whispering in your ear - 'that William Williamson who treated Sarah Swindle so shamefully was an Ovingham lad, try researching there." I will have to think how I can develop this line of research. After all, it is well known that brick walls are no obstacles to ghosts. Alan Swindale > -----Original Message----- > From: northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:northumbria- > bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of JOHN GOSLING via > Sent: 05 March 2015 19:46 > To: Geoff Nicholson; northumbria@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [NMB] Mill House, Willington Quay > > Hi Geoff, > > Yes, good call, I imagine Music Hall would be more likely, though the > census does use the term "Theatre proprietor". > > Ah, I had found some references to a Willington Mill, which also > mentioned a separate "Mill House"; in fact one story says most of the > "haunting" occurred in the house rather than the mill. But I wasn't > sure if it might be a match for my "Mill House". > > How every intriguing. Not only do I potentially get an actress, but a > ghost :-) > > I'll do some reading on the ghost story - there seem to be quite a > number of accounts and see if I can firm up a connection. > > Regards > > John

My great great grandmother Ann (Snowball) Watson's death certificate States that she died at Mill, Willington, she had lived in Keelman's Row, her husband Thomas being a Keelman then Waterman, The Mill was just align the road, they also lived in New Street prior to her death, I would think Mill Willington would refer to Proctors Mill, which was so they say haunted. I had wondered what this place was, and had thought it might have been some kind of hospital, but have hit a brick wall on this. I don't think this would have been a pub or music hall. If anyone has any further information I too would be interested to hear anything. Margery > .. > Please quote the minimum necessary > to put your reply on context. Please introduce yourself at the top of every > post. > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To > unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > .. > Please quote the minimum necessary to put your reply on context. Please introduce yourself at the top of every post. > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Geoff, Yes, good call, I imagine Music Hall would be more likely, though the census does use the term "Theatre proprietor". Ah, I had found some references to a Willington Mill, which also mentioned a separate "Mill House"; in fact one story says most of the "haunting" occurred in the house rather than the mill. But I wasn't sure if it might be a match for my "Mill House". How every intriguing. Not only do I potentially get an actress, but a ghost :-) I'll do some reading on the ghost story - there seem to be quite a number of accounts and see if I can firm up a connection. Regards John

Hi, I've just come across a fascinating set of ancestors, the first time I have come across any sort of theatrical aspect to my tree. I've got on the 1881 census, a James C Hunter, (I think the C stands for Crumbie) and his family. He's down as a Theatre Proprietor, employing 7 men and 3 women. His daughter is down as an Actress and a son as a musician. They are at Mill House, and while general searching of the web hints at a Mill House in the vicinity of Walls End (looks to be a pub/restaurant) I'm not at all sure it is the same place. I have the 1895 Godfrey edition of Willington Quay, which I have been pouring over. The census taker went down Nelson Street, on to Potter Street, past the Turks Head inn and (if I can read the writing) onto Stephenson Street, but then it gets a bit vague, and there's certainly no Mill House on the map. Looks like it was quite large as there are quite a few families crammed in there. I doubt Mill House was the "theatre", but would anyone know where Mill House was, and if there was a theatre nearby that might be a contender for the one James ran? Regards, John

John: I know nothing of any theatre in the area - would not "Music Hall" be more likely to be the more precise description? However, as you don't mention it and therefore don't seem to know, I should tell you that to those people who believe in ghosts (I don't!), Willington Mill, which is now long demolished, had the reputation of being the "Most haunted building on Tyneside". Apparently the ghosts were of a nasty, vindictive type and therefore local people would avoid that building as much as possible. No doubt others will be able to give you chapter and verse. Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: JOHN GOSLING via <northumbria@rootsweb.com> To: northumbria <northumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 17:00 Subject: [NMB] Mill House, Willington Quay Hi, I've just come across a fascinating set of ancestors, the first time I have come across any sort of theatrical aspect to my tree. I've got on the 1881 census, a James C Hunter, (I think the C stands for Crumbie) and his family. He's down as a Theatre Proprietor, employing 7 men and 3 women. His daughter is down as an Actress and a son as a musician. They are at Mill House, and while general searching of the web hints at a Mill House in the vicinity of Walls End (looks to be a pub/restaurant) I'm not at all sure it is the same place. I have the 1895 Godfrey edition of Willington Quay, which I have been pouring over. The census taker went down Nelson Street, on to Potter Street, past the Turks Head inn and (if I can read the writing) onto Stephenson Street, but then it gets a bit vague, and there's certainly no Mill House on the map. Looks like it was quite large as there are quite a few families crammed in there. I doubt Mill House was the "theatre", but would anyone know where Mill House was, and if there was a theatre nearby that might be a contender for the one James ran? Regards, John .. Please quote the minimum necessary to put your reply on context. Please introduce yourself at the top of every post. The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pat and geoff. Thank You especially for added information on De PErcy. and sourcon the Earl of Northumeberland. My Trail I follow is the DNA and History of Vikings of Northumberia to gather all information we can on 1400 era Jonson-Johnstone and its spellings. Our Trail of WHite Oak DNA Johnson takes us to several Families of Northumerbland, Sir John Johnson of Yorkshire and to Sir THomas Johnson of Northumebrland, Wales, Yorkshire and Ruskington Lincolnshire. (The THorpes aka Village of VIkings) Sit THomas Johnson His COusin IS William SKeryemesher who is off the Lines of SKerymesher and De Percey, WIlliam SKermesher cousin of Sir THomas Johnson is married to ELzabeth MIddleton off Nicholas Middleton. THese Midldeton and De Percey will be further be involved in lands in COlonial Virgina as the SHirley Huundred Settlement in 1610 and the Tappahanna Land settlements of COlonial Virginia UNder Eleanor Percy their familes of Lord Dela War West The SKermesher and Talbot familes of HEnrey De Percy takes us to the THorpe of what will becomes Johnson Hall. and THe De Johnstone- De Johnandson familes there. Married 01-1492 Henry WIDDRINGTON, born 1470, died on 26-08-1518. Married 01-1492 in Gawthorpe to Margaret (Marjory Percy; Margery Widdrington Margery Percy) PERCY (see also XXIX.185). From this marriage: 6 children (see under XXIX.185). http://vdbrempt.be/genealogie/parentelen/nkdg_dd/nkdg_dd-0013.htm Researchers Notes: Check relationship to Earl of Northumberland De Percy Thomas WIDDRINGTON, born circa 1440. Married. From this marriage: 1. Alice WIDDRINGTON (see also XXVIII.162). XXVIII. Alice WIDDRINGTON, born circa 1460. Married. From this marriage: 1. Thomas (Scrimshire) SKRYMSHER, born 1482, died on 12-09-1551 in Norbury, buried 1523. 2. William SKRYMSHER, born circa 1488. http://vdbrempt.be/genealogie/parentelen/nkdg_dd/nkdg_dd-0013.htm On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 2:04 AM, Pat Pierpoint via wrote: > Geoff - Thank you for the "plug", but, sadly, the Clan > Johnston/Johnstone > Association (UK) has had to be wound up, along with its website. Its > demise > was due in part to the poor health of the Clan Commissioner who ran > it, but > mainly to falling membership numbers. As far as I know, the sister > associations in the USA, Australia and New Zealand are still > operational. > The American association especially does have a very informative > website > www.clanjohnstone.org. > > Tony - I am aware that this list covers the counties of Northumberland > and > Durham, and that that is the particular area you are interested in, > but the > further back you get you may well find that the people with the > earliest > examples of the name Johnson, Johnston or Johnstone originally came > from > just over the border in southern Scotland. The Johnstone Clan has its > roots > in the Anglo-Scottish borders region, notably in Annandale in the > county of > Dumfriesshire. In 1124, King David I of Scotland granted to the first > Robert de Bruce, a Norman, the Lordship of Annandale and 200,000 > acres. It > was Bruce's descendant, the eighth Robert de Bruce, who was destined > to lead > the Scots in their heroic fight for independence from England. The de > Bruce > family was to play a pivotal role in the identification and > development of > the Johnstones, the two families becoming close allies over the years. > Five > hundred years after the title of the Lordship of Annandale had been > granted > to the De Bruce family, King Charles II was to grant it to Lord James > Johnstone, the Chief of the Johnstone Clan. > > Anyone who knows anything about the history of the Border Reivers will > know > that, roughly between 1300 and 1600, the Johnstones were heavily > involved in > this lifestyle. They were certainly at "deadly feud" with the > Maxwells > throughout most of the 16th century. I notice that the documents that > Tony > quotes from are dated during the 1400s. The Johnstones actually rose > to > prominence in the mid-1400s, so I doubt if there will be very much > information on the name before that. > In any case it was not customary before the Normans arrived in these > islands > in the 11th century for people to have surnames. A man was normally > only > known by his Christian name, e.g. John, David, etc. If we remember > also that > a man would be known by the name other people gave him (i.e. not one > he had > invented himself), it is easy to understand how the man's son would be > named > by reference to his father, e.g. John's son, David's son, giving us > the > origin of the names Johnson and Davidson. So, on this basis, the > originator > of the clan was just called "John". I can do no better than quote > from > Russell C Honey on the subject of the origin of the name:- > > "One of the Norman Lords arriving in Scotland in the 1100s was a man > named > "John". At that time surnames were not being used. They did not appear > until > 1,000 AD. The first people in Scotland to acquire surnames were the > Norman > nobles, who came from France with William the Conqueror and were of > Viking > ancestry. The "John" mentioned, had lands granted to him by the Bruce > family. Documents show the name as simply "John", that being the only > name > he had. Those lands became known as "Johnstun" or "John's town". > "Tun" from > the Celtic language translates to "town" or "lands". His son Gilbert > was to > first use the surname Johnstun in the period from 1170 - 1194. > Gilbert was > the first member of the family of Johnstone who took the surname, > derived > from the lands called after his father John." > I apologise to Brian for taking this discussion out of the realms of > Northumberland and Durham, but since Tony wishes to go further back > with > this particular name I thought it best to point out that its origins > are > outside this area. > > Cheers > > Pat Pierpoint > ex-Secretary and Genealogy Officer > Clan Johnston/Johnstone Association (UK) > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Geoff >> Nicholson via >> Sent: 03 March 2015 18:53 >> To: tonyemprieore@charter.net; northumbria@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [NMB] Jonson-Johnson-JOhnstoe etc >> >> >> >> You might also try contacting, if you haven't done so already, >> the Clan Johnson Association. If you don't have their details you >> could try Googling for them. Don't be put off by the word "Clan" - >> they cover all Johns(t)on(e)s anywhere, especially those who >> originated on either side of the Scottish Border. >> >> Geoff Nicholson >> > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > SPAMfighter has removed 16456 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com > > .. > Please quote the minimum necessary to put your reply on context. > Please introduce yourself at the top of every post. > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Wally: I note there was also a Joscelin Anderson, illegitimate son of John, baptised at Doddington on 30 October 1778. Perhaps Elizabeth had died in the meantime or perhaps John later remarried, to the mother of his illegitimate child or to someone else. I also note that the address in each case is given simply as "Doddington", which seems to imply that they lived in Doddington village, a tiny place, rather than in an outlying farm etc. Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: drewa via <northumbria@rootsweb.com> To: Genealogy <northumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 3:51 Subject: [NMB] Andersons I thought I would try again to find an ancestor John Anderson Ex Birth,marriage His spouse was Elizabeth The children John br 1771 Doddington NBL Ann br 1771 Adam br 1774 died 1776 My e-mail address drewa@shaw.ca Wally Anderson .. Please quote the minimum necessary to put your reply on context. Please introduce yourself at the top of every post. The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I thought I would try again to find an ancestor John Anderson Ex Birth,marriage His spouse was Elizabeth The children John br 1771 Doddington NBL Ann br 1771 Adam br 1774 died 1776 My e-mail address drewa@shaw.ca Wally Anderson

Geoff - Thank you for the "plug", but, sadly, the Clan Johnston/Johnstone Association (UK) has had to be wound up, along with its website. Its demise was due in part to the poor health of the Clan Commissioner who ran it, but mainly to falling membership numbers. As far as I know, the sister associations in the USA, Australia and New Zealand are still operational. The American association especially does have a very informative website www.clanjohnstone.org. Tony - I am aware that this list covers the counties of Northumberland and Durham, and that that is the particular area you are interested in, but the further back you get you may well find that the people with the earliest examples of the name Johnson, Johnston or Johnstone originally came from just over the border in southern Scotland. The Johnstone Clan has its roots in the Anglo-Scottish borders region, notably in Annandale in the county of Dumfriesshire. In 1124, King David I of Scotland granted to the first Robert de Bruce, a Norman, the Lordship of Annandale and 200,000 acres. It was Bruce's descendant, the eighth Robert de Bruce, who was destined to lead the Scots in their heroic fight for independence from England. The de Bruce family was to play a pivotal role in the identification and development of the Johnstones, the two families becoming close allies over the years. Five hundred years after the title of the Lordship of Annandale had been granted to the De Bruce family, King Charles II was to grant it to Lord James Johnstone, the Chief of the Johnstone Clan. Anyone who knows anything about the history of the Border Reivers will know that, roughly between 1300 and 1600, the Johnstones were heavily involved in this lifestyle. They were certainly at "deadly feud" with the Maxwells throughout most of the 16th century. I notice that the documents that Tony quotes from are dated during the 1400s. The Johnstones actually rose to prominence in the mid-1400s, so I doubt if there will be very much information on the name before that. In any case it was not customary before the Normans arrived in these islands in the 11th century for people to have surnames. A man was normally only known by his Christian name, e.g. John, David, etc. If we remember also that a man would be known by the name other people gave him (i.e. not one he had invented himself), it is easy to understand how the man's son would be named by reference to his father, e.g. John's son, David's son, giving us the origin of the names Johnson and Davidson. So, on this basis, the originator of the clan was just called "John". I can do no better than quote from Russell C Honey on the subject of the origin of the name:- "One of the Norman Lords arriving in Scotland in the 1100s was a man named "John". At that time surnames were not being used. They did not appear until 1,000 AD. The first people in Scotland to acquire surnames were the Norman nobles, who came from France with William the Conqueror and were of Viking ancestry. The "John" mentioned, had lands granted to him by the Bruce family. Documents show the name as simply "John", that being the only name he had. Those lands became known as "Johnstun" or "John's town". "Tun" from the Celtic language translates to "town" or "lands". His son Gilbert was to first use the surname Johnstun in the period from 1170 - 1194. Gilbert was the first member of the family of Johnstone who took the surname, derived from the lands called after his father John." I apologise to Brian for taking this discussion out of the realms of Northumberland and Durham, but since Tony wishes to go further back with this particular name I thought it best to point out that its origins are outside this area. Cheers Pat Pierpoint ex-Secretary and Genealogy Officer Clan Johnston/Johnstone Association (UK) > -----Original Message----- > From: northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Geoff > Nicholson via > Sent: 03 March 2015 18:53 > To: tonyemprieore@charter.net; northumbria@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [NMB] Jonson-Johnson-JOhnstoe etc > > > > You might also try contacting, if you haven't done so > already, the Clan Johnson Association. If you don't have > their details you could try Googling for them. Don't be put > off by the word "Clan" - they cover all Johns(t)on(e)s > anywhere, especially those who originated on either side of > the Scottish Border. > > Geoff Nicholson > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 16456 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

Tony: Forgive me if I am just repeating what you are already aware of but I must at some stage give you two "warnings". One is that with John being such a common Christian name, the surname Johnson (etc) will have had very many quite separate origins. A few may have come from rich and powerful aristocratic families, but the vast majority will be from little-documented "ordinary" ones. The other warning" is that the name could not have originated until there were people named John to have sons. Although most languages/cultures have used names similar to John (Ian, Jan etc) and it is of course Biblical (St John the Divine etc), nevertheless, in its "usual" form of John (Latin: Johannes) it did not become common in England until the Norman conquest and therefore it was several generations before it began to be used by ethnically English people. In 1525 the Earl of Northumberland was Henry Percy, 5th Earl, who had inherited as a minor in 1489 and who was to die in 1527. He seems to have played a lesser part in national affairs than his immediate predecessors, although more might be found about him in M E James: "A Tudor Magnate and the Tudor state: Henry, fifth earl of Northumberland", Borthwick Papers no 30 (York, 1966). The situation in 1131 was quite different. The Earldom of Northumberland was not yet in the Percy family and was held at various times by various people, some of whom were Earls only briefly and some of whom were indeed of Danish origin. It was the end of the "Norman" period and just before the start of the chaos which marked the reign of Stephen. I think you will be more likely to get a meaningful answer to your query if you confine yourself to asking one specific question at a time, as I did find much of the apparently unrelated information you sent to be more confusing than helpful in trying to work out what it is you want to know. Perhaps that is just because I, like most of the subscribers to the "List", am not a mediaeval expert. Most family historians are still stuck in the 18th and 19th centuries and can only look on with jealously when the 12th or even the 16th centuries are being quoted! Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: tonyemprieore <tonyemprieore@charter.net> To: Geoff Nicholson <geoff.nicholson@aol.co.uk> CC: northumbria <northumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 7:01 Subject: Re: [NMB] Jonson-Johnson-JOhnstoe etc THere are even two Early Danish Names in Northumberland County invovlement I only posted the time era when SUrnames were begining to be used. THe One at Johnson Hall is some how connected to NOrthumberia just do not know how yet. 1131 Earl of Northumbeland JORNSSON or Bjornson 1292 Coram Rege Roll, Hillary, 20 E. I. Peter de Jonestone, Robert de Johanneston, John de Joneston, THese tie right into the Skermesher familes of Middleton, and Cousin of SIr Thomas Johnson of Northumberland, Yorkshire, Wales, and land owner in Lincolnshire ( Manor of Ruskington owned by the La ZOuche familes represented in COlonial Virginia as the SIr WIlliam Randolph Families) Land owner by LTC RIchard COcke at Turkey ISland and Large Land owner at Tuckahoe Creek where we find WHIte Oak Michael Johnson familes coming off ALice COx and her first Husband Henry Rowen ( Middleton-WOodward-Price-Lllewellyn familes) Rowen is reported to be from Wales. 1293 Banco Roll. Michaelmas, 21 E. I. because the land was in Joniston (Johnstone) and not in Eccleshale THis is the beginnings of Johnson Hall owned by the Skermesher familes. Our interest is around the Earl of Northumberland family in the year 1525 he is some how the kinman of SIr THomas JOhnson married to the widow Isabell Lindley first married to SIr Brian Palmer, In SIr THomas Johnson is reported to be from Northumeblrand in the service of the Earl Of Northumberland. THomas Johnson takes the place of ? Middleton of SPotsforth Forest Sir Brian Palmer is the Earls Lawyer. Now in 1620 SIr THomas Middleton of Wales, London Essex and SHirley HUndred is land owner at lands of SHirley Hundred COlonial Virginian, where we will find the PALMER-Hinton families of SIr Brian Palmers and the Lord De La West families of Palmers as land owners by RIchard Johnson first the servant of William Ferrar ( Lincolnshire families whose Uncle is Nicholas Ferar of YOrkshire) SIr THomas Johnson and wife Isabella Lindleys off spring Henry Johnson born abt 1550 Waltonedge Yorkshire England married Elizabeth Norton, he is reported son of Thomas Johnson born abt 1524 of Walton Yorkshire England. She is the daughter of Richard Norton and wife Suzanna De Neville. Elizabeth Norton ABT 1551 in York, Yorkshire, England Married: ABT 1607 in York, Yorkshire, England THe Norton will be represented by the SPencer and Goodricke-Goodrich familes in COlonial Virginia involved with JOHNSON families. I am the Group leader of the WHite Oakk DN Johnson-Johnston-Jonson familes found in FTDNA ( rootsweb) ni placing the Pedigres of the memebres together we know the FOre Great Grand mother (Many times over) was ALice Cox married to MATTHEW Edloe was born in 1590, in Earsdon, Northumberland, England. http://www.myheritage.com/names/alice_coxe ; (JJDNA Administrators) forefather was born in WE know that WHite Oak Researcher Lisa Grimes familes are the Mallory-Norton-Conyers familes of Northumberland and Yorkshire. It is debated on WHere LTC RIchard Cocke is from ( one of my forefathers) We know the COnstable families trace back to Northumberalnd in white Oak Group. Many Many more connections in this DNA Group trace to Yorkshire and Northumberland. WHite Oak Group of Johnson's are of VIking origins per DNA. Thank you for sharin we will be looking to find these publications On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Geoff Nicholson wrote: Tony: You are getting dangerously close to the period when surnames first began to come into use and/or first began to be hereditary. As you probably know, before the 14th century (roughly: different for every family) Henry, son of John ("Johnson"), might have a son Nicholas, son of Henry ("Nicholson"), and so on for later generations until the surname of the day eventually stuck and became hereditary. For what it's worth I often take the Northumberland Lay Subsidy Roll of 1296, published by Newcastle Antiquarian Society in 1968, as a guide to which surnames had come into use in the county by then. The index to the book does not mention any Johnson, but there are numerous people who are called "son of John". Another good source for early Northumberland surnames is the very detailed 15-volume "New History of Northumberland" (NCH), published by the County History Committee at various dates between about 1880 and 1950. It is, of course, in the tradition of Victorian County Histories and is effectively a history of the land-ownership, but it should give you lots of "sons of John" and "Fitz-Johns", whether hereditary or not, as well as no doubt some early Johnsons. For those parts not covered by the County History you could try Hodgson's "History of Northumberland", as the two are complementary, the NCH covering those parishes Hodgson did not reach before his death. For Northumberland's "brother county" (I won't say "sister", as they were both run on very masculine lines at the time!), the County Palatine of Durham, many of the early documents have been published over the years by the Surtees Society, including surveys of the Bishops' lands (most of the county, especially in the northern part) in 1183 (Boldon Book, very few names given) and in c1382 (Hatfield's survey, lots of names given). You might also try contacting, if you haven't done so already, the Clan Johnson Association. If you don't have their details you could try Googling for them. Don't be put off by the word "Clan" - they cover all Johns(t)on(e)s anywhere, especially those who originated on either side of the Scottish Border. Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: tonyemprieore via <northumbria@rootsweb.com> To: NORTHUMBRIA <NORTHUMBRIA@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 18:06 Subject: [NMB] Jonson-Johnson-JOhnstoe etc Looking for some of the ealriest peopl of this surname in Northumbria Examples of documents Date range: 08 July 1319 - 07 July 1320 [Earldom of Lancaster.] Accounts. Certain places in [co. York] and [co. Northumberland ?]. Views. ...York] and [co. Northumberland ?]. Views. 1m. These documents (PRO 30/26/71/1 - PRO 30/26/71/20) were presented by Major William Moat, O.B.E., J.P., of Johnson Hall, Eccleshall, co. Stafford, in June 1929. ... Collection: Domestic Records of the Public Record Office, Gifts, Deposits, Notes and Transcripts Reference:PRO 30/26/71/1 Subjects:Archives and libraries 1440 alien subsidy, Jacobus Jonson Chillingham, Coquetdale ward, Northumberland son of Elena Jonson in tax assessment, 14 April 1440 brother of Edward Jonson in tax assessment, 14 April 1440 Origin: Nationality: Scotland Original Document E 179/158/41, m. 9 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) Mother is Elena Johnson a house holder http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/person/72521440 alien subsidy, Robert Jonson ( Johnson) Shipley, Coquetdale ward, Northumberland house holder Origins Scotland E 179/158/41, m. 11 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/person/72521440 alien subsidy, Andrew Jonson Edlingham, Coquetdale ward, Northumberland House holder E 179/158/41, m. 15 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/person/72521440 alien subsidy, Andrew Johnson Edlingham, Coquetdale ward, Northumberland E 179/158/41, m. 15 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) non house holder http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/person/72521440 alien subsidy, 1st collection David Jonson [Johnson] Tynemouth, Inter ward, Northumberland Origin Scotland E 179/158/41, m. 4 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/2581440 alien subsidy, Andrew Jonson ( Johnson) North Shields, Inter ward, Northumberland E 179/158/41, m. 4 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) Origins Scotland: Householder http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/2581440 alien subsidy, Thomas Jonson ( johnson) Preston, Inter ward, Northumberland non-householder E 179/158/41, m. 4 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) Origins Scotland http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/2581440 alien subsidy, Thomas Jonson (Johnson) Inter ward, Northumberland Paid. Johnson on E 179/158/74. E 179/158/41, m. 5 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) Origins Scotland non householder http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/2581440 alien subsidy, Robert Jonson Long Houghton, Bamburgh ward, Northumberland Origins Scotland Non house holder E 179/158/41, m. 12 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/2581440 alien subsidy Patrick Jonson Heatherslaw, Glendale ward, Northumberland Origins Scotland, non house holder E 179/158/41, m. 16 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/2581440 alien subsidy Thomas Jonson Heatherslaw, Glendale ward, Northumberland Origins Scotland non householder E 179/158/41, m. 16 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258Thanks Tony Glad to share information .. Please quote the minimum necessary to put your reply on context. Please introduce yourself at the top of every post. The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.comwith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Tony: You are getting dangerously close to the period when surnames first began to come into use and/or first began to be hereditary. As you probably know, before the 14th century (roughly: different for every family) Henry, son of John ("Johnson"), might have a son Nicholas, son of Henry ("Nicholson"), and so on for later generations until the surname of the day eventually stuck and became hereditary. For what it's worth I often take the Northumberland Lay Subsidy Roll of 1296, published by Newcastle Antiquarian Society in 1968, as a guide to which surnames had come into use in the county by then. The index to the book does not mention any Johnson, but there are numerous people who are called "son of John". Another good source for early Northumberland surnames is the very detailed 15-volume "New History of Northumberland" (NCH), published by the County History Committee at various dates between about 1880 and 1950. It is, of course, in the tradition of Victorian County Histories and is effectively a history of the land-ownership, but it should give you lots of "sons of John" and "Fitz-Johns", whether hereditary or not, as well as no doubt some early Johnsons. For those parts not covered by the County History you could try Hodgson's "History of Northumberland", as the two are complementary, the NCH covering those parishes Hodgson did not reach before his death. For Northumberland's "brother county" (I won't say "sister", as they were both run on very masculine lines at the time!), the County Palatine of Durham, many of the early documents have been published over the years by the Surtees Society, including surveys of the Bishops' lands (most of the county, especially in the northern part) in 1183 (Boldon Book, very few names given) and in c1382 (Hatfield's survey, lots of names given). You might also try contacting, if you haven't done so already, the Clan Johnson Association. If you don't have their details you could try Googling for them. Don't be put off by the word "Clan" - they cover all Johns(t)on(e)s anywhere, especially those who originated on either side of the Scottish Border. Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: tonyemprieore via <northumbria@rootsweb.com> To: NORTHUMBRIA <NORTHUMBRIA@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2015 18:06 Subject: [NMB] Jonson-Johnson-JOhnstoe etc Looking for some of the ealriest peopl of this surname in Northumbria Examples of documents Date range: 08 July 1319 - 07 July 1320 [Earldom of Lancaster.] Accounts. Certain places in [co. York] and [co. Northumberland ?]. Views. ...York] and [co. Northumberland ?]. Views. 1m. These documents (PRO 30/26/71/1 - PRO 30/26/71/20) were presented by Major William Moat, O.B.E., J.P., of Johnson Hall, Eccleshall, co. Stafford, in June 1929. ... Collection: Domestic Records of the Public Record Office, Gifts, Deposits, Notes and Transcripts Reference:PRO 30/26/71/1 Subjects:Archives and libraries 1440 alien subsidy, Jacobus Jonson Chillingham, Coquetdale ward, Northumberland son of Elena Jonson in tax assessment, 14 April 1440 brother of Edward Jonson in tax assessment, 14 April 1440 Origin: Nationality: Scotland Original Document E 179/158/41, m. 9 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) Mother is Elena Johnson a house holder http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/person/7252 1440 alien subsidy, Robert Jonson ( Johnson) Shipley, Coquetdale ward, Northumberland house holder Origins Scotland E 179/158/41, m. 11 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/person/7252 1440 alien subsidy, Andrew Jonson Edlingham, Coquetdale ward, Northumberland House holder E 179/158/41, m. 15 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/person/7252 1440 alien subsidy, Andrew Johnson Edlingham, Coquetdale ward, Northumberland E 179/158/41, m. 15 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) non house holder http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/person/7252 1440 alien subsidy, 1st collection David Jonson [Johnson] Tynemouth, Inter ward, Northumberland Origin Scotland E 179/158/41, m. 4 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258 1440 alien subsidy, Andrew Jonson ( Johnson) North Shields, Inter ward, Northumberland E 179/158/41, m. 4 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) Origins Scotland: Householder http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258 1440 alien subsidy, Thomas Jonson ( johnson) Preston, Inter ward, Northumberland non-householder E 179/158/41, m. 4 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) Origins Scotland http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258 1440 alien subsidy, Thomas Jonson (Johnson) Inter ward, Northumberland Paid. Johnson on E 179/158/74. E 179/158/41, m. 5 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) Origins Scotland non householder http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258 1440 alien subsidy, Robert Jonson Long Houghton, Bamburgh ward, Northumberland Origins Scotland Non house holder E 179/158/41, m. 12 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258 1440 alien subsidy Patrick Jonson Heatherslaw, Glendale ward, Northumberland Origins Scotland, non house holder E 179/158/41, m. 16 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258 1440 alien subsidy Thomas Jonson Heatherslaw, Glendale ward, Northumberland Origins Scotland non householder E 179/158/41, m. 16 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258 Thanks Tony Glad to share information .. Please quote the minimum necessary to put your reply on context. Please introduce yourself at the top of every post. The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Looking for some of the ealriest peopl of this surname in Northumbria Examples of documents Date range: 08 July 1319 - 07 July 1320 [Earldom of Lancaster.] Accounts. Certain places in [co. York] and [co. Northumberland ?]. Views. ...York] and [co. Northumberland ?]. Views. 1m. These documents (PRO 30/26/71/1 - PRO 30/26/71/20) were presented by Major William Moat, O.B.E., J.P., of Johnson Hall, Eccleshall, co. Stafford, in June 1929. ... Collection: Domestic Records of the Public Record Office, Gifts, Deposits, Notes and Transcripts Reference:PRO 30/26/71/1 Subjects:Archives and libraries 1440 alien subsidy, Jacobus Jonson Chillingham, Coquetdale ward, Northumberland son of Elena Jonson in tax assessment, 14 April 1440 brother of Edward Jonson in tax assessment, 14 April 1440 Origin: Nationality: Scotland Original Document E 179/158/41, m. 9 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) Mother is Elena Johnson a house holder http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/person/7252 1440 alien subsidy, Robert Jonson ( Johnson) Shipley, Coquetdale ward, Northumberland house holder Origins Scotland E 179/158/41, m. 11 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/person/7252 1440 alien subsidy, Andrew Jonson Edlingham, Coquetdale ward, Northumberland House holder E 179/158/41, m. 15 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/person/7252 1440 alien subsidy, Andrew Johnson Edlingham, Coquetdale ward, Northumberland E 179/158/41, m. 15 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) non house holder http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/person/7252 1440 alien subsidy, 1st collection David Jonson [Johnson] Tynemouth, Inter ward, Northumberland Origin Scotland E 179/158/41, m. 4 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258 1440 alien subsidy, Andrew Jonson ( Johnson) North Shields, Inter ward, Northumberland E 179/158/41, m. 4 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) Origins Scotland: Householder http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258 1440 alien subsidy, Thomas Jonson ( johnson) Preston, Inter ward, Northumberland non-householder E 179/158/41, m. 4 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) Origins Scotland http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258 1440 alien subsidy, Thomas Jonson (Johnson) Inter ward, Northumberland Paid. Johnson on E 179/158/74. E 179/158/41, m. 5 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) Origins Scotland non householder http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258 1440 alien subsidy, Robert Jonson Long Houghton, Bamburgh ward, Northumberland Origins Scotland Non house holder E 179/158/41, m. 12 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258 1440 alien subsidy Patrick Jonson Heatherslaw, Glendale ward, Northumberland Origins Scotland, non house holder E 179/158/41, m. 16 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258 1440 alien subsidy Thomas Jonson Heatherslaw, Glendale ward, Northumberland Origins Scotland non householder E 179/158/41, m. 16 (tax assessment, 14 April 1440) http://www.englandsimmigrants.com/document/258 Thanks Tony Glad to share information

I have been searching through the British Newspaper Archive website for records for a James Fynes who defrauded the North-Eastern Railway Company by presenting a dodgy cheque for £5 in payment for a 1s (shilling) rail ticket, and requiring change of £4 19s. The case was heard at the Berwick Quarter Sessions in April 1906, and according to the newspaper article, the defendant was found guilty and sentenced to six months hard labour. I would welcome advice on where I can find the records of the Berwick Quarter Sessions from April 1906, and also where there might be records of James Fynes' incarceration for the six months hard labour. Where would people be sent to in order to serve their hard labour sentence? Any advice or assistance would be greatly appreciated. Geoff Fynes Sandhurst, Gloucester