In a message dated 31/12/2009 06:47:53 GMT Standard Time, dbheath@melbpc.org.au writes: Elizabeth Johnson, born around 1852. Her census details give her place of birth as Durham "New Durham". Does anyone know where this is and what registration district it would come under? Jeanette: New Durham is still the name for the district along the road leading to Sherburn from Durham City, being the outermost suburb of Durham in that direction. From Durham City centre you could go up Claypath and Gilesgate and bear right at the fork at the top of the hill. On your right you would quickly come to a large early-ish council estate, and that is what most people would now understand as "New Durham", though the original "New Durham Farm" is in the fields behind and below it, nearer to the Wear. The whole would be in Durham Registration District and probably also in its Durham Sub-District. Later the Durham Registration District became in effect Durham Central. Geoff Nicholson

In a message dated 31/12/2009 02:05:34 GMT Standard Time, bp@bpears.org.uk writes: Jeanette Heath wrote: > I wonder if anyone could give me some advice as to how to access > electoral rolls for the 1920s and 30s. I have an Arthur Johnson (born > 1896) who was living at 31 Charlotte Street, Stanley, Durham at least up > until 1927. I wrote several months ago to the local Stanley library > but received no answer. Does Gateshead Library hold these electorals > rolls as well, and would it be worth while contacting them? Jeanette: Further to Brian's answer, even if and when you track down the appropriate Electoral Rolls, you will find that for the period concerned, women did not, in general, have the vote and so would not appear on the Rolls. A married woman's husband would probably be there but with no means of telling whether he was married or single. Also, in most Rolls the electors are listed by (a) Polling District, (b) Street and then (c) by the number of the house within the street, so unless you know both the street in which they lived, and the Polling District into which that street fell, you could have to search through every street to find them. True, there are indexes to tell you which streets were in which polling districts, but they were printed at the front of the Rolls and were usually the first to become damaged and torn off through handling before the Rolls were bound up. In general, the use of Electoral Rolls is something not to be undertaken without a lot of preliminary study of what precisely they are, who was listed and how, etc. Sometimes there are Rolls for local government purposes and others for Parliamentary purposes, sometimes Spring Rolls (!) and Autumn ones, for instance, not to mention the "Absent Voters' Lists" of 1918 and 1919. Geoff Nicholson

Jeanette Heath wrote: > I wonder if anyone could give me some advice as to how to access > electoral rolls for the 1920s and 30s. I have an Arthur Johnson (born > 1896) who was living at 31 Charlotte Street, Stanley, Durham at least up > until 1927. I wrote several months ago to the local Stanley library > but received no answer. Does Gateshead Library hold these electorals > rolls as well, and would it be worth while contacting them? Jeanette Gateshead Library does not hold electoral rolls covering Stanley. The only repository holding them will be Durham Record Office, so I suggest you contact them. Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

My dad, who is nearly 85 and lived in Wallsend as a child , remembers Wallsend Stadium to be near The Green and to the east of Station road. It was used as a training centre for learning different trades. He has a photo of the stadium in a book if you are interested. Happy Christmas! Belinda

Hi Merry Christmas to you all. I was fascinated with the discussion about St James Hall, especially John's mention of the wrestling. My Grandmother's side of the family had an all-in wrestler who reputedly fought at St James Hall (information from my dad who can vaguely remember him). He was known as Tom Finney to the family but I think that this is going to be his stage name. The only record I can find of a marriage between his wife (Lilian Sheppard) and someone is a Robert W Johnston in Castle Ward in 1930 which would be about right as Lilian (one of my Grandmother's cousins) was born in 1908 in Tynemouth district. Obviously Tom Finney was a famous name in another sport which has made an internet search very difficult. Does anyone know of any books or websites etc or even an history society covering All-In Wrestling, especially in the Northumberland area in which I can find some details. Even if it doesnt contain any reference to this particular person, it would be interesting to know more about it. Just to expand the family a little, just in case there is someone out there who may know of them:- Margaret Spark daughter of Abraham Spark and Mary Ann Douglas(s) born c1881 in Howdon Panns. She married Sam Sheppard who was from Keighley, Yorkshire born around 1881 as well. The Spark family lived in Crofton Street and around but then moved to Blyth in the very late 1890's and some still live there. Margaret and Sam Sheppard had 4 children according to my Dad. Lillian born c1908 and Gordon who we think went to live in Hartlepool. I have found on the indexes an Abraham Spark Sheppard and it would be amazing if he wasnt one of the children, considering the name. I dont know who the fourth one was but apparently it was a girl. There may have been more. Lillian married "Tom Finney" - I dont think they had any children and by the time I met her in the early 1970's she was on her own and living with Aunty Maggie, or Margaret Sheppard in the Gosforth area. As I said before, the only marriage I can find for a Lilian Sheppard in the area, at the right time, considering the surname variations is to Robert W Johnston in 1930. Any information, ideas, contacts would be fantastic. Have an amazing Christmas everyone. I must now go and stuff Henry the turkey so that we can eat before midnight. All the best Mandy Buchanan _________________________________________________________________ Add your Gmail and Yahoo! Mail email accounts into Hotmail - it's easy http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394592/direct/01/

Brian, I remember going to the Wrestling at New St. James Hall. Also New St James Hall was known as "The graveyard of Champions" But I like to mention how my Uncle Benny took on the then Bantam-weight World Champion in none title fight at the New St. James Hall on the 16th February 1936. The World Champion, Balthazar Sangchili took on Benny Sharkey (real name Benjamin Goldwater) . It was hard fought fight over 10 rounds, with Benny winning on points. Two weeks later Benny Sharkey fought Simon Chavez, who was the then featherweight of Venezuela and beat him on points over 10 rounds. Also at New St. James Hall, Benny Sharkey on September 1st. 1930. In another none title fight beat the then British and European Bantam-weight Champion Teddy Baldock. My Uncle Benny recieved £400 for this fight. John, Walker, Newcastle upon Tyne little.blobby2@btinternet.com http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~littleblobby/ http://www.freewebs.com/littleblobby/ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.724 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2583 - Release Date: 12/23/09 08:28:00

Hi NORTHUMBRIA subscriber Reuben Jamieson has sent me a fascinating 1927 boxing poster for St James' Hall in Newcastle. http://www.bpears.org.uk/temp/boxing.jpg George (Puncher) Willis was the father of Reuben's late pal and Best Man, Jeff Willis; while Alf Page was the father of another of Reuben's friends. A fews years after those bouts, St James Hall was replaced by the New St James' Hall on the same site. I'm sure that many will remember that venue in the 60s when it featured professional wrestling as well as boxing. The hall closed in 1967 and was later demolished to make way for St James' Metro Station. http://www.wrestlingheritage.co.uk/Features/Leaz_St_James_Hall_1965.jpg Many greats from the world of boxing fought there - even the great Sonny Liston gave an exhibition there in 1963. A political heavyweight too gave an election speech there in 1951 - no less a person than Winston Churchill. It was also the scene of a gruesome murder in 1957 - the body of 15 year old Gordon Lockhart was found concealed under the boxing ring. Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

Hi Adi , Thank you for your response to my request . The North/South connection could be of interest . Whilst the SAYER name is fairly common across several Southern Counties we are mindful that Shipping and Seafaring people moved around especially from Ports in the North East .So will keep your record on File Unfortunately I have no records of BITTLESTONE or PIPPET .. Best Wishes for Christmas , Harry Sayer , Ambleside . ----- Original Message ----- From: Mme N. Carmichael To: NORTHUMBRIA@rootsweb.com ; northumbria@rootsweb.com Cc: harry.sayer2@btinternet.com Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:14 AM Subject: Re: [NMB] SAYER SAYERS SAWER etc Hello Harry, I have no interest in SAYERS, But I did run across the name in something I was reading today, so sending it along for your 'waifs and strays' file. From "Dictionary of Tyne Sailing Ships" by Richard E. Keyes, a George SAYERS of Chichester was part owner (6/64ths) in June 1825 of English brig WILLIAM & MARY, 131 tons, built Emsworth 1790. Majority owner was widow Mary PIPPET of South Shields, master was William BITTLESTONE of ditto. Those two surnames *do* interest me. Regards, Adi --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Harry Sayer <harry.sayer2@btinternet.com> wrote: Having done a lot of work on the SAYER name in Yorkshire I am now looking in more detail in Northumberland and Durham and will be pleased to hear from anyone with SAYER interests or records , however small . Harry Sayer , Ambleside . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

Hello Harry,   I have no interest in SAYERS, But I did run across the name in something I was reading today, so sending it along for your 'waifs and strays' file.   >From "Dictionary of Tyne Sailing Ships" by Richard E. Keyes, a George SAYERS of Chichester was part owner (6/64ths) in June 1825 of English brig WILLIAM & MARY, 131 tons, built Emsworth 1790. Majority owner was widow Mary PIPPET of South Shields, master was William BITTLESTONE of ditto. Those two surnames *do* interest me.   Regards, Adi --- On Sun, 12/20/09, Harry Sayer <harry.sayer2@btinternet.com> wrote: Having done a lot of work on the SAYER name in Yorkshire I am now looking in more detail in Northumberland and Durham and will be pleased to hear from anyone with SAYER interests or records , however small . Harry Sayer , Ambleside . __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.

This is my first Post to this List so may I wish you All a Very Happy Christmas and Good Hunting in 2010 . Having done a lot of work on the SAYER name in Yorkshire I am now looking in more detail in Northumberland and Durham and will be pleased to hear from anyone with SAYER interests or records , however small . Our interests start with the marriage of a John Sayer to Agnes de Seton c 1380 . Little is known about John Sayer except that he was of Durham . Like wise the de Setons lived at Preston in S,Durham .Agnes inherited the Manor of Worsall , on the Yorkshire side of the Tees near Yarm .A history of this Family up to mid 1660s by a JP SAYER was published soon after his death in The Catholic Ancestor . We were fortunate in finding JP's daughter who gave us access to his papers and permission to place his already published work ,together with additional material , on a Web site . For anyone interested this can be found at www.bedfordpark.net/genealogy/sayer/ One of these pieces relates to a member of this "Worsall" Family who lived at Stockton from where the family moved to Sunderland and then to Richmond, Surrey . The line continues up to the present day .Another 2 or 3 similar linked lines also exist . Much additional material has been collected , mainly in Yorkshire , and some large Family Groups identified but linking these to the older family is proving difficult . We are now hoping to improve our overall knowledge of the SAYER surname North of the Tees and will appreciate any help . We are aware of the many SAYERs who moved to the North East in the Industrial Revolution . Those from Cumberland and Westmorland are likely to have links . However those from Norfolk and other Eastern and South Easter Counties are unlikely to have Northern connections . Being of a mature age (92) and my co-reseaecher resident in Surrey it is not practical to spend days in the local Record Offices so any help will be much appreciated . Harry Sayer , Ambleside .

Hi List I have in my family tree a Jessie Graham (18) who is listed in the 1881 census as lodger "Unfortunate". RG11 Piece 5050 Folio 29 Page 13. There are three other lodgers so listed. They are boarding with a family in Westgate, Northumberland. I have always assumed that she was a prostitute and been rather amused at the title. I also have a death certificate in 1885 for a Jessie Graham 25, domestic servant, who died of burns accidentally received. If they are one and the same, she was indeed "unfortunate". She was born in 1862 and as there are no Jessie Grahams around the right age in the 1891 census, I am fairly certain that it must be her. Jeanette Heath Melbourne

Ros Dunning wrote: > My grandmother and three great aunts were dressmakers and they > were.....dressmakers! Being very Victorian ladies they would have been quite > horrified at any other imputation! Ros All the old people dating from the Victorian era that I got to know well back in my younger days were very different from the "Victorian" stereotype we read so much about. I seriously doubt that the stereotype had much basis in fact outside of posh society and certain religious sects. I would think it quite likely that your relatives would have found the implication highly amusing particularly if they were elderly and infirm at the time. Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

jain wykes wrote: > Do you know how commonly the euphemism 'dressmaker' was used for prostitute. > And if it was commonly used do you know how a genuine dressmaker may have > described herself, in order to distinguish herself from the euphemistic > type? I ask because I have come across several 'dressmakers' in my research. > i wonder if an understanding of the wealth of the area that the 'suspect' > lived in might give an indication? Jain It was very common - as I understand it the terms "seamstress" and "tailoress" were also used, but "dressmaker" was the most popular. So common was it that "Dressmaker" was the third most common occupation in England and Wales (after Coal Miner & Ag Lab) on the 1881 census. As you suggest, the only way of distinguishing a real dressmaker from a "dressmaker" was by the nature of the household and the area. A 20 year-old dressmaker living with her clergyman father and mother probably was a dressmaker. A 20 year-old "dressmaker" living with several other "dressmakers" in a seedy lodging house near the docks probably wasn't. Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

My grandmother and three great aunts were dressmakers and they were.....dressmakers! Being very Victorian ladies they would have been quite horrified at any other imputation! Ros -----Original Message----- From: northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of jain wykes Sent: 17 December 2009 19:57 To: northumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NMB] "On the street"? Hi Brian, Do you know how commonly the euphemism 'dressmaker' was used for prostitute. And if it was commonly used do you know how a genuine dressmaker may have described herself, in order to distinguish herself from the euphemistic type? I ask because I have come across several 'dressmakers' in my research. i wonder if an understanding of the wealth of the area that the 'suspect' lived in might give an indication? Cheers Jain ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Pears" <bp@bpears.org.uk> To: <northumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:55 AM Subject: Re: [NMB] "On the street"? > > Hi > > I've found it. > > 1861 RG9/3829 Folio 69 Page 21 Schedule 118 > Wall Knoll, Newcastle upon Tyne > > Ann Isable Dobing Head Unm 19 on the street Sunderland > Alice Jeffereson Boarder Unm 22 " Durham, Jarrow > > Well it couldn't be clearer; they were prostitutes. It was a very common > occupation, though practitioners were rarely so open about it. Apparently > the usual euphemism was "dressmaker" > > Brian > > > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Brian, Do you know how commonly the euphemism 'dressmaker' was used for prostitute. And if it was commonly used do you know how a genuine dressmaker may have described herself, in order to distinguish herself from the euphemistic type? I ask because I have come across several 'dressmakers' in my research. i wonder if an understanding of the wealth of the area that the 'suspect' lived in might give an indication? Cheers Jain ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Pears" <bp@bpears.org.uk> To: <northumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:55 AM Subject: Re: [NMB] "On the street"? > > Hi > > I've found it. > > 1861 RG9/3829 Folio 69 Page 21 Schedule 118 > Wall Knoll, Newcastle upon Tyne > > Ann Isable Dobing Head Unm 19 on the street Sunderland > Alice Jeffereson Boarder Unm 22 " Durham, Jarrow > > Well it couldn't be clearer; they were prostitutes. It was a very common > occupation, though practitioners were rarely so open about it. Apparently > the usual euphemism was "dressmaker" > > Brian > > > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

> Delia wrote: >> A cousin told me recently that my father Norman SNOWDON was trained > > to be a plasterer at Wallsend Stadium sometime in the 1930's. > And then there is the extensive collection of Swan Hunter material > at Tyne & Wear Archives - though searching could be a problem if > you are not locally based. > Brian Wallsend Stadium? Could this have been Swan Hunters Recreation Ground which was at the end of Vauxhall Road/Stotts Rd.? Having lived in the area during the '30's I can't think of any other "Stadium" in Wallsend. May be someone could confirm or 'jog' my memory?. Reuben

Thank you Brian I will explore those options. I would be interested if any of our members have relatives who went into similar retraining schemes best wishes Delia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Pears" <bp@bpears.org.uk> To: <northumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [NMB] Wallsend Stadium > Delia wrote: >> A cousin told me recently that my father Norman SNOWDON was trained > > to be a plasterer at Wallsend Stadium sometime in the 1930's. > > I had been told that he had been apprenticed in the shipyards but > > was laid off when he completed his apprenticeship (apparently common > > at this time) He then moved down to Lincolnshire to work in airfield > > construction where he met my mother and later settled. >> Does anyone know anything about this retaining programme and would > > there be any records? Was it a Government scheme? > > Delia > > There certainly would be records at several levels but, as ever, > the problem is locating them. > > Assuming it was government scheme - and it almost certainly would > be - there will be records at the National Archives both of the > planning and the day to day running of the scheme. I presume that > only the former would be publicly accessible. You could try the > online National Archives catalogue: > > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/ > > There may be material about the retraining programme in the local > and national press too - you could try searching the Times Digital > Archive at your local library. > > And then there is the extensive collection of Swan Hunter material > at Tyne & Wear Archives - though searching could be a problem if > you are not locally based. > > Brian > -- > Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ > Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List > GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer > > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4695 (20091217) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > >

Delia wrote: > A cousin told me recently that my father Norman SNOWDON was trained > to be a plasterer at Wallsend Stadium sometime in the 1930's. > I had been told that he had been apprenticed in the shipyards but > was laid off when he completed his apprenticeship (apparently common > at this time) He then moved down to Lincolnshire to work in airfield > construction where he met my mother and later settled. > Does anyone know anything about this retaining programme and would > there be any records? Was it a Government scheme? Delia There certainly would be records at several levels but, as ever, the problem is locating them. Assuming it was government scheme - and it almost certainly would be - there will be records at the National Archives both of the planning and the day to day running of the scheme. I presume that only the former would be publicly accessible. You could try the online National Archives catalogue: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/ There may be material about the retraining programme in the local and national press too - you could try searching the Times Digital Archive at your local library. And then there is the extensive collection of Swan Hunter material at Tyne & Wear Archives - though searching could be a problem if you are not locally based. Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

Hi Brian; It's from the 1861 Census which I am currently transcribing for your area (Northumberland) and it records 2 girls living at the same address: Head unmarried 22 Boarder unmarried 19 As Rank, Profession, or Occupation: they are recorded as "on the street" I've not included further info, just in case, but can supply off line? Kindest regards; Robert KEMSLEY Australia

A cousin told me recently that my father Norman SNOWDON was trained to be a plasterer at Wallsend Stadium sometime in the 1930's. I had been told that he had been apprenticed in the shipyards but was laid off when he completed his apprenticeship (apparently common at this time) He then moved down to Lincolnshire to work in airfield construction where he met my mother and later settled. Does anyone know anything about this retaining programme and would there be any records? Was it a Government scheme? Delia