Brian - thanks for the excellent information - much better than I hoped for. You never fail to amaze me! David

Brian - thanks for the excellent information - much better than I hoped for. You never fail to amaze me! David

Michael wrote: <What's "pure Geordie"?> Oh Michael, you monkey! I walked right into that one didn't I? A little bit of rapid, incautious thinking and WHAM - straight into a traditional controversy (or rat-trap). Ducking my head well below the parapet I retract it and replace it with - - - I was born in Newcastle and lived my first 18 years there; ventured into Northumberland but hardly ever across the Tyne. My mother had a saying: "I was born in a bottle and I've never seen over the neck!". Creep creep. David

Brian - thanks for the excellent information - much better than I hoped for. You never fail to amaze me! David

dmlawson wrote: > In the 1911 Census I have a relative and family living whose address > is given as Elmfield House, Rowlands Gill. So far I have stablished > this is the Winlaton area and whilst the name Elmfield appears quite > common I canot find the house or what it was.There wouldn't have been > much money around and I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a lodging > house. David Elmfield House is on West Avenue in the village of Rowlands Gill. It is one of 12 semi-detached houses on West Avenue, but I don't know which one because the houses now have numbers 1-12 rather than names and have done so for at least 60 years. The little estate where West Avenue is situated is known locally as "The Villas" and it was built about the turn of the century to house workers at nearby Whinfield Coke Works. For some years the street was known as "High West Avenue" (to better distinguish it from the adjacent and less desirable "Low West Avenue") but it reverted to the original "West Avenue" in the mid 1970s. The houses on West Avenue are quite substantial 3-bedroom semis - here's a picture of no 12 (they all pretty much the same). http://www.globrix.com/property/buy/ne39/west-avenue Just one more point - it seems that all the houses on West Avenue had names ending "leigh" - Elmleigh, Kenleigh, Thornleigh, Briar Leigh etc. Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

In the 1911 Census I have a relative and family living whose address is given as Elmfield House, Rowlands Gill. So far I have stablished this is the Winlaton area and whilst the name Elmfield appears quite common I canot find the house or what it was.There wouldn't have been much money around and I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a lodging house. The full reference for the Census is as follows: RG14: Piece 30521: Ref. RG13PN30521 RG78PN1750 RD557 SD4 ED14 SN173 Sadly, being a pure Geordie, I never ventured much across the river so my knowledge is disgracefully limited. The identity of the House is not really important - I'm just curious and wondered if our experts (sounds like you Brian) could fill me in. I know this son of my G grandfather to have been of a restless nature and this Census shows his 3rd profession. Family information provides me with his later having a fish & chip shop in Dinnington until he and the family finally moved to Canada in 1927. He died in 1950 and even my canadian relatives don't have as much information as I so I am just trying to fill out the picture for all of us. Many thanks David Lawson

David, What's " pure Geordie" ? Michael

Hi Nivard, Thanks for your reply. Yes, your John Folds is my man. I had found that record already. John's surname has been written/transcribed as Fowels, Folds, Fooles, Fales, etc etc so anything to do with him takes a while to find ! I think he lived with/was married to Isabella, had Hugh, then Isabella died. Hopefully the death cert will reveal all ! Margaret would be his 2nd wife. Thanks again, Barbara 2010/1/8 Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> > Hi Barbara > > I can't see an obvious marriage but thats not to say they didn't, although > it is more than possible they never married > > While looking for your man I came across the following in 1861 > > Name: John Folds > Age: 26 > Estimated birth year: abt 1835 > Relation: Head > Spouse's name: Margret > Gender: Male > Where born: Carlisle, Cumberland, England > Civil parish: Elswick > Ecclesiastical parish: Elswick St Paul > County/Island: Northumberland > Country: England > Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne > Sub-registration district: Westgate > ED, institution, or vessel: 23 > Neighbors: View others on page > Household schedule number: 37 > Household Members: > Name Age > John Folds 26 > Margret Folds 28 > Hugh Folds 8 > Sarah Folds 2 > Andrew Folds 18 > John Graham 50 > David Renwick 26 > Sarah Ann Renwick 29 > Thomas James Renwick 4 > John Renwick 1 > John Graham 13 > > RG9; Piece: 3816; Folio: 8; Page: 9; GSU roll: 543191. > > So is this the right family and if so has John remarried or is Margaret > really the Isabella you seek ? > > People often changed names in mid stream for some reason or other best > known > to themselves > > As to giving false information, yes very common indeed > > I did find a possible death for an Isabella FAULDS though > > Deaths Mar 1856 > FAULDS Isabella Carlisle 10b 151 > > Could they have married in Scotland perhaps? > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > Hello All, > > I have a birth certificate for Hugh Faulds dated 18th July 1853 in > > Carlisle. His father is John Faulds and mother, who registered the > > birth, > > Isabella Faulds formerly Foster. > > However, I cannot find a marriage for John and Isabella searchng either > > name. Could they have just been possibly living together and Isabella > > gave > > false information ? Was that a common thing to do? or should I keep > > looking for the marriage ? > > Look forward to receiving any suggestions, > > Thanks > > Barbara Newton > > > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Brian, Yes, I realised I had sent it to the wrong place as soon as I pressed the Send button. Sorry ! 2010/1/8 Brian Pears <bp@bpears.org.uk> > R Newton wrote: > > I have a birth certificate for Hugh Faulds dated 18th July 1853 in > > Carlisle. His father is John Faulds and mother, who registered the > birth, > > Isabella Faulds formerly Foster. > > However, I cannot find a marriage for John and Isabella searchng either > > name. Could they have just been possibly living together and Isabella > gave > > false information ? Was that a common thing to do? or should I keep > > looking for the marriage ? > > Look forward to receiving any suggestions, > > Barbara > > Sorry but this is off-topic for the NORTHUMBRIA list. We only cover > the counties of Northumberland and Co Durham. Carlisle is in Cumbria > (formerly Cumberland) so you need a list covering that area such as > CUMBERLAND, ENG-CUL-CARLISLE or ENG-CUMBRIA. > > Brian > -- > Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ > Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List > GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer > > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I have just rceived my ggg grandparents marriage certificate: Andrew Reed married Sarah Storey 1 sep 1938 at St Mary's Church, Gateshead They were living on the High Street; both the groom and the bride's father are described as Turpentine Distiller Can anyone tell me anything about such an industry in the area? Presumably this was the real pine resin product, and not a coal-tar substitute ... Many thanks Christel

Hello All, I have a birth certificate for Hugh Faulds dated 18th July 1853 in Carlisle. His father is John Faulds and mother, who registered the birth, Isabella Faulds formerly Foster. However, I cannot find a marriage for John and Isabella searchng either name. Could they have just been possibly living together and Isabella gave false information ? Was that a common thing to do? or should I keep looking for the marriage ? Look forward to receiving any suggestions, Thanks Barbara Newton

Hi Barbara I can't see an obvious marriage but thats not to say they didn't, although it is more than possible they never married While looking for your man I came across the following in 1861 Name: John Folds Age: 26 Estimated birth year: abt 1835 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Margret Gender: Male Where born: Carlisle, Cumberland, England Civil parish: Elswick Ecclesiastical parish: Elswick St Paul County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne Sub-registration district: Westgate ED, institution, or vessel: 23 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 37 Household Members: Name Age John Folds 26 Margret Folds 28 Hugh Folds 8 Sarah Folds 2 Andrew Folds 18 John Graham 50 David Renwick 26 Sarah Ann Renwick 29 Thomas James Renwick 4 John Renwick 1 John Graham 13 RG9; Piece: 3816; Folio: 8; Page: 9; GSU roll: 543191. So is this the right family and if so has John remarried or is Margaret really the Isabella you seek ? People often changed names in mid stream for some reason or other best known to themselves As to giving false information, yes very common indeed I did find a possible death for an Isabella FAULDS though Deaths Mar 1856 FAULDS Isabella Carlisle 10b 151 Could they have married in Scotland perhaps? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hello All, > I have a birth certificate for Hugh Faulds dated 18th July 1853 in > Carlisle. His father is John Faulds and mother, who registered the > birth, > Isabella Faulds formerly Foster. > However, I cannot find a marriage for John and Isabella searchng either > name. Could they have just been possibly living together and Isabella > gave > false information ? Was that a common thing to do? or should I keep > looking for the marriage ? > Look forward to receiving any suggestions, > Thanks > Barbara Newton

R Newton wrote: > I have a birth certificate for Hugh Faulds dated 18th July 1853 in > Carlisle. His father is John Faulds and mother, who registered the birth, > Isabella Faulds formerly Foster. > However, I cannot find a marriage for John and Isabella searchng either > name. Could they have just been possibly living together and Isabella gave > false information ? Was that a common thing to do? or should I keep > looking for the marriage ? > Look forward to receiving any suggestions, Barbara Sorry but this is off-topic for the NORTHUMBRIA list. We only cover the counties of Northumberland and Co Durham. Carlisle is in Cumbria (formerly Cumberland) so you need a list covering that area such as CUMBERLAND, ENG-CUL-CARLISLE or ENG-CUMBRIA. Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

Thanks Michael, I recall that from my research and I have the coat of arms and some history on the name too. E. -----Original Message----- From: northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of dixymick@aol.com Sent: 08 January 2010 14:45 To: northumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NMB] Help needed finding him please. E, You say "there is no K in the Irish". But similarly there is no V in Irish Gaelic. But both comments are almost irrevelant as the word/name Kavanagh or Cavanagh is in English, not Irish or Gaelic. They are translations by sound into the English language from a Gaelic word written Caomhanach. (mh equating to " v " ). Michael The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Oh wow. That must have taken some time and effort and eyebrow raising too, lol. I never judge my ancestors as I don't know how they lived or why they did what they did. I am just very pleased to find them to be honest but Thomas has proved very difficult and I would give anything to find him but if he did leave Margaret because she was with Patrick I am sure he would have started another family as he would only have been 35 in 1900 so I may have other family I don't know about which would be fabulous to find out about but since he is definitely dead now how would I know it was him if I did find a listing for him? Thanks again for your help E. -----Original Message----- From: northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of WHRutherford@aol.com Sent: 08 January 2010 09:54 To: northumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NMB] Help needed finding him please. 1911 census McIntyre Here is the transcript for McIntyre from 1911. I checked the original and it has been transcribed, as written. 1911 census transcription details for: Backrooms Front St Catchgate National Archive Reference: RG14PN29871 RG78PN1729 RD550 SD1 ED20 SN284 Reg. District: Lanchester Sub District: Tanfield Parish: Collierley Enum. District: 20 Address: Backrooms Front St Catchgate County: Durham Name Relation Condition/ Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born MCINTYRE, Patrick Head Married M 45 1866 Coal Miner Hewer Woodside Wilton Park C/o Durham MCINTYRE, Margaret Wife Married 20 years F 37 1874 County Durham Leadgate MCINTYRE, Patrick Son Single M 19 1892 Coal Miner Putter Woodside Wilton Park C/o Durham MCINTYRE, Owen Son Single M 16 1895 Coal Miner Pony Driver Woodside Wilton Park C/o Durham MCINTYRE, Cathrine Daughter F 14 1897 School Teams Gateshead C/o Durham MCINTYRE, Susan Daughter F 9 1902 Gateshead C/o Durham MCINTYRE, Agnes Daughter F 5 1906 Callerton C/o Northumberland MCINTYRE, Joseph Son M 1 1910 Gateshead C/o Durham C findmypast.co.uk We should always remember that people stretched the truth, downright lied, forgot... Grin! I have, in my tree, 2 brothers, Great Uncles of my husband, who were both running two families for over 20 years! One of them had 14 children by the un-official wife in 1911. All had always been listed with his surname, most were registered with their mother's name, some had the father's name as a middle name. It took a long time and a lot of difficult research to work it all out. Both declared that they were married to the "other woman" and both official wives were declaring themselves as married. Good luck with your search, Hazel "Life is a roller-coaster...........just got to ride it!" The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I agree, I have looked at other spellings for Kavanagh and given that there is no K in the Irish I have looked at C as well as others possibilities. Catherine's birth cert states she was born on August 1st 1896. Thanks for looking that up for me and confirming what I believed to be the truth, it is always nice to get confirmation. I will keep your e-mail too for future ref. E. -----Original Message----- From: northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Joyce Wenner Sent: 08 January 2010 00:50 To: northumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NMB] Help needed finding him please. Once thing you have to watch is the spelling is not always correct on censuses- found this out the hard way with my grandparents - 4 different spellings on 4 census reports till finally the correct one for the next 3 years. Brian taught me that and it sure helped. So you may have to broaden your search criteria. Also just becasue it says a person is born in 1897 on a census that is an approx date and can go either up or down 1 year. As for your family how about these........ 1.. Thomas Kavanagh married Margaret McCoy in Lancaster Durham 2nd Quarter 1894 2.. I found your Catherine which matches your dates - that is her date stated as: a.. Catherine Bridget Kavanagh registered 3rd Quarter - Sept 1896 Gateshead,Tyne and Wear County Durham in Volume 10 page 971 Ancestry.co.uk Free BMD index 1837-1915 b.. Also the info that you stated on John Thomas Kavanagh matches what you wrote. 3. I did find a marriage for a Patrick McIntyre and a Margaret Elizabeth Kavanagh 3rd Quarter 1902 Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland, Tyne and Wear Volume 10b page 263 Ancestry.co.uk on the BMD index 1837-1915 which may be who you are looking for and proves they weren't married 20 years by 1911. Joyce On the 1911 census it states that her and her partner, Patrick McIntyre, were married for some 20 years, which I know to be untrue as she was first married to Thomas in 1894 in Lanchester Co Durham, giving birth twice to Catherine in 1896 then to John Thomas in 1898 - he died in 1900 in Newcastle upon Tyne. The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Catherine Bridget Kavanagh was born on August 1st 1896. I agree with the rest of your comments too but my question was is it possible to find Thomas and how would I know it was he if I did find him now? www.eyshasfineart.co.uk "Never Live Life Faster Than Your Guardian Angel Can Fly." -----Original Message----- From: northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jenny De Angelis Sent: 07 January 2010 23:21 To: northumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NMB] Help needed finding him please. 1911 census asrequestedby Brian Pears The question about Catherine McIntyre's age in the 1911 census is that the census was taken for the night of 2nd April 1911, it wanted to know who passed mid-night in a house or other place that night. On what day and in which month was Catherine born? By the time of the 1911 census being taken on 2nd April would she have already passed her birthday for 1911 or was her birthday later in 1911 than the 2nd April? If she had passed her birthday in 1911 then she would be aged 15, if as you say she was born in 1896. But if she had not yet had her birthday in 1911 she would be 14 rising 15 later that year. Take another look at the birth certificate and what month is shown for her birth you might find that 14 is the right age in the 1911 census for her at the time that years census was taken. Census ages are very frequently out by a year or two but the date of a birth, if known, has to be taken into account when calculating how old a person should appear on the census and when their birthday fell in census year compared to the date the census was taken that year. It might have made things easier for the family if the neighbours and other people thought that the children were born as McIntyre's rather than being the step children. If the mother had committed bigamy then she could hardly have her children known as Kavanagh while she was known as Mrs. McIntyre, could she? Someone might put two and two together and realise what had happened, especially if that someone knew Mr. Kavanagh they might start to think too much about it all. Bigamy is a crime and would need covering up to keep the law from finding out. If she was passing her children off as the natural children of Patrick McIntyre then she would have to say she had been married for a longer period than was really the case, it would all help to hide the fact that she had committed the crime of bigamy. When Margaret Kavanagh married Patrick McIntyre she could hardly say she was a married woman as she was committing bigamy, she would say she was a widow, even though her first husband was still alive. Regards Jenny DeAngelis Spain. <<> On this census they have my grandmother listed as Catherine McIntyre aged 14 > at school. She was born IN 1896 NOT 1897 as I have her birth cert and > married as Catherine Bridget Cavanagh in Newcastle in 1919 so I know > someone > lied and I know they were not married 20 years because Margaret, nee Mc > Coy, > the mother, was married to my great grandfather in 1894 at the Brooms > Lanchester. >refore broke up the marriage to Kavanagh and I think he would have gone >off and probably remarried as he would only have been 35 years old in >1900>> The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

E, You say "there is no K in the Irish". But similarly there is no V in Irish Gaelic. But both comments are almost irrevelant as the word/name Kavanagh or Cavanagh is in English, not Irish or Gaelic. They are translations by sound into the English language from a Gaelic word written Caomhanach. (mh equating to " v " ). Michael

Here is the transcript for McIntyre from 1911. I checked the original and it has been transcribed, as written. 1911 census transcription details for: Backrooms Front St Catchgate National Archive Reference: RG14PN29871 RG78PN1729 RD550 SD1 ED20 SN284 Reg. District: Lanchester Sub District: Tanfield Parish: Collierley Enum. District: 20 Address: Backrooms Front St Catchgate County: Durham Name Relation Condition/ Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born MCINTYRE, Patrick Head Married M 45 1866 Coal Miner Hewer Woodside Wilton Park C/o Durham MCINTYRE, Margaret Wife Married 20 years F 37 1874 County Durham Leadgate MCINTYRE, Patrick Son Single M 19 1892 Coal Miner Putter Woodside Wilton Park C/o Durham MCINTYRE, Owen Son Single M 16 1895 Coal Miner Pony Driver Woodside Wilton Park C/o Durham MCINTYRE, Cathrine Daughter F 14 1897 School Teams Gateshead C/o Durham MCINTYRE, Susan Daughter F 9 1902 Gateshead C/o Durham MCINTYRE, Agnes Daughter F 5 1906 Callerton C/o Northumberland MCINTYRE, Joseph Son M 1 1910 Gateshead C/o Durham © findmypast.co.uk We should always remember that people stretched the truth, downright lied, forgot... Grin! I have, in my tree, 2 brothers, Great Uncles of my husband, who were both running two families for over 20 years! One of them had 14 children by the un-official wife in 1911. All had always been listed with his surname, most were registered with their mother's name, some had the father's name as a middle name. It took a long time and a lot of difficult research to work it all out. Both declared that they were married to the "other woman" and both official wives were declaring themselves as married. Good luck with your search, Hazel "Life is a roller-coaster...........just got to ride it!"

The question about Catherine McIntyre's age in the 1911 census is that the census was taken for the night of 2nd April 1911, it wanted to know who passed mid-night in a house or other place that night. On what day and in which month was Catherine born? By the time of the 1911 census being taken on 2nd April would she have already passed her birthday for 1911 or was her birthday later in 1911 than the 2nd April? If she had passed her birthday in 1911 then she would be aged 15, if as you say she was born in 1896. But if she had not yet had her birthday in 1911 she would be 14 rising 15 later that year. Take another look at the birth certificate and what month is shown for her birth you might find that 14 is the right age in the 1911 census for her at the time that years census was taken. Census ages are very frequently out by a year or two but the date of a birth, if known, has to be taken into account when calculating how old a person should appear on the census and when their birthday fell in census year compared to the date the census was taken that year. It might have made things easier for the family if the neighbours and other people thought that the children were born as McIntyre's rather than being the step children. If the mother had committed bigamy then she could hardly have her children known as Kavanagh while she was known as Mrs. McIntyre, could she? Someone might put two and two together and realise what had happened, especially if that someone knew Mr. Kavanagh they might start to think too much about it all. Bigamy is a crime and would need covering up to keep the law from finding out. If she was passing her children off as the natural children of Patrick McIntyre then she would have to say she had been married for a longer period than was really the case, it would all help to hide the fact that she had committed the crime of bigamy. When Margaret Kavanagh married Patrick McIntyre she could hardly say she was a married woman as she was committing bigamy, she would say she was a widow, even though her first husband was still alive. Regards Jenny DeAngelis Spain. <<> On this census they have my grandmother listed as Catherine McIntyre aged 14 > at school. She was born IN 1896 NOT 1897 as I have her birth cert and > married as Catherine Bridget Cavanagh in Newcastle in 1919 so I know > someone > lied and I know they were not married 20 years because Margaret, nee Mc > Coy, > the mother, was married to my great grandfather in 1894 at the Brooms > Lanchester. >refore broke up the marriage to Kavanagh and I think he would have gone >off and probably remarried as he would only have been 35 years old in >1900>>