My father had an uncle Gustaf Hedberg HUTTON - where did these names come from?! His father was plain Thomas Webster (can't work out where Webster came from - I'm sure there's a remote family link) HUTTON from Newcastle. Mother was born Hannah Maria COOKE (haven't traced her birth anywhere) but married as Hannah Maria LEES in Stalybridge. At the time Thomas Hutton may have had a shop towards the bottom of Grey Street, or The Side, not far from the Quayside. He had been in Grainger Street West in 1879. He lived in Oxford Terrace, Gateshead in 1881, but moves were frequent. Gus, as he was known, was born in March 1881 and appears in the census as one month old. Curiously, there was an Erik Gustaf HEDBERG, captain of a Swedish ship moored in the Tyne at Newcastle on census night. There has to be a connection? What a very unusual naming on Tyneside. I feel sure it raised a lot of eyebrows at the time, and during most of his life! Can I can hear some tittering at the back? Thomas Webster is believed to have been an alcoholic and was made bankrupt in 1879. Possibly Captain Erik was a regular visitor to the Tyne. But wouldn't it have been more usual to have named the lad Erik after a friend, rather than Gustaf Hedberg? We'll probably never know what put the Hutton's under such a spell to land Gus with such names. There was a famous Swedish bookbinder by the name Gustaf Hedberg, but he was only about 22 in 1881. There was a lovely little vessel called Gustaf Hedberg, see; http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=http://www.tugboatlars.se/GustafHedberg.htm&ei=Z0inS4-aFJTw0gTy65zOAQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CBoQ7gEwBg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dgustaf%2Bhedberg%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX Chris Morgan Sheffield

Hi Brian Thanks for trying to help. I have traced ancestors in my tree for my grandmothers family back to the 1700's and nothing has appeared that would help and believe me there are lots of relatives. So the mystery continues. Regards Maureen

I'm trying to get my head round an entry in the 1911 census for a family at Choppington Colliery. George & Georgina are recorded with their 7 children. The census records that they have been married 22 years 9 "total children born alive", 7 "children still living", 4 "children who have died"! In trying to understand this apparent anomaly. Other than an innumerate enumerator could there be a hidden message, perhaps a further 2 children were stillborn? Has anyone come across such a discrepancy elsewhere and was it also an excess of "dead" children? Reference RG14PN31043 RG78PN1776 RD564 SD3 ED10 SN184 John Heckels

In a message dated 22/03/2010 06:27:41 GMT Standard Time, orangebouncesrootsweb@googlemail.com writes: The census records that they have been married 22 years 9 "total children born alive", 7 "children still living", 4 "children who have died"! In trying to understand this apparent anomaly. Other than an innumerate enumerator could there be a hidden message, perhaps a further 2 children were stillborn? Hi John, The forms for 1911 were filled in by the householder unless they were illiterate. Either which way, if you read & answer each question separately, then there could be a mis-understanding of the last question, which could then include stillborn children in the total and the enumerator who checked the forms not picking up on it. I am not sure if certificates were issued for still births in 1911, or even if they were, whether you could get one. My older brother was stillborn in 1943 and my mother had never seen a certificate, nor knew where he was buried. Only after her passing and me proving I was next of kin could I get the certificate for him. The plus side of that is that there will be no descendants to go looking for. I am searching for a child listed as "born alive & living" to my GGrandfather's 3rd wife in the 1911, but who is not at home. I have no idea whether male or female! Not part of the Durham side of the family, so no more details here. Regards Hazel "Life is a roller-coaster...........just got to ride it!"

On 21/03/2010 21:03, maureen wrote: > Sorry about missing out neccesary info. I am new to your site sand don' t yet know the ropes so to speak.The information you ask about is listed below. > > Dorothea is my Grandmother and I have a copy of the birth certificate > therefore confirming I have the right person. I must apologise for saying > I didn't know what the initials stood for in her name. I have the > marriage certificate also and the names are clearly stated there as > Wilhelmina Cuthbertson Russell Dorothea Lunn. So all you want is the source of the four forenames? Without research nobody can be sure, but typically the Cuthbertson and Russell would be the surnames of ancestors, and the Wilhelmina and Dorothea would either be ancestral or from a collateral (side) line. But, of course, the parents (or Dorothea herself) may just have taken the names of popular local or national figures in the entertainment or other field - or simply picked names they liked from thin air. There's no short cut. All you can do is to keep your eyes open as you trace the next two or three generations of ancestors of both Alexander LUNN and Elizabeth ROBSON (plus the siblings of those ancestors and the sibling's offspring) in the hope that those names appear. Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

Hi Brian Sorry about missing out neccesary info. I am new to your site sand don't yet know the ropes so to speak.The information you ask about is listed below. Dorothea is my Grandmother and I have a copy of the birth certificate therefore confirming I have the right person. I must apologise for saying I didn't know what the initials stood for in her name. I have the marriage certificate also and the names are clearly stated there as Wilhelmina Cuthbertson Russell Dorothea Lunn. She rightly as you said married Edward Bowery in St. Gabriels church Newcastle upon Tyne on the 11th June 1903. She was born in Southdean Roxburghshire November 24th 1871. Her parents were Alexander Lunn and her mother was Elizabeth Lunn (nee Robson). She died on the fourth of August 1953 in Carville Road Byker Newcastle upon Tyne. In the 1881 census Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 5111; Folio: 27; Page: 9; GSU roll: 1342234. In 1891 census Source Citation: Parish: Wilton; ED: 12; Page: 21; Line: 13; Roll CSSCT1891_388; Year: 1891. In 1901 census Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 4789; Folio: 18; Page: 27. I have not found a baptism record. I noticed her name was Dora in the 1891 census but seem to remember some people referring to her by that name sometimes. I know she was born in Scotland and this is a Northumbria site but being as she moved here I thought maybe that would make it OK. If not then I apologise in advance. I hope the info above is what you asked me for. As I say I am new to this game and would appreciate any help or advise you can give me. Regards Maureen

On 21/03/2010 18:55, maureen wrote: > Hi there wondered if anyone can help me. My grandmother was born Dorothea > Lunn and on all census following remained known as such. However on > her marriage details in 1903 and her death she was known as Wilhelmina > C.R.D. Lunn. > > I know people used to take names of family but having gone way back I can > find neither reason or rhyme for this. Is there anywhere I might be able > to find what the initials stand for. Obviously the D. will be Dorothea > but the others remain a mystery. I think we need considerably more detail here. You have all the records and can't figure where the names come from - so how can we hope to do so without even having that info? When and where was she born? Who were her parents? Where and to whom did she marry? When and where did she die? If you have found census returns, what are the references? Oh, and have you found a baptism record? Some parents add to or change a birth name when they christen the child - indeed some denominations add saints names at that time. Of course there may be no reason or rhyme to the additional names other than personal (or parental) whim. In the UK people were and are free to change or modify their names whenever they wish and for any (or no) reason. Many have done so. There are no required formalities - a "deed poll" is optional - all one has to do is make it known that from now on you are called, say, Fred Bloggs, and that's it. In modern times it can, of course, cause difficulties with banks and officialdom in general, but in granny's day there were no such problems. Going back to your query - just to throw a spanner in the works, are you absolutely certain that the pre-1903 birth and census records you've found for Dorothea do in fact relate to the same lady as the marriage and death records for Wilhelmina C.R.D Lunn? I ask because she appears on the 1911 census as "Dora Bowery" (I think she married Edward Bowery in 1903 - am I right?) so the "D" appears to be "Dora", not "Dorothea". Though I suppose that the former could be a contraction of the latter. Anyway - can we please have the additional info and perhaps somebody will have a brainwave. Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

Posting interests in Hexham George Busby , Harriet Busby bapt 31 3 1785 father Rev George Busby, interested if anyone has the same family interests. Regards Shirley

On 21/03/2010 18:42, D HIGGINS wrote: > You can never tell - perhaps there might even be a serendipitious moment for > someone on the list contained in this seemingly innocous exchange between > Mr. Ovington and myself. As I said, if someone chooses to reply privately, you should respect that choice. Your opinion on the content of that e-mail is irrelevant - it was a private e-mail and as such it should not have been copied to a public list. So let me repeat - do not copy private e-mails to the list. As it happens, on this occasion Nivard responded off-list because a near-identical query had been answered at length on the list just a few days ago. You could have discovered this by using the list archives - there's a lot there on obtaining Wills quite apart from the recent posts. The recent post is at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/NORTHUMBRIA/2010-03/1268824323 and you can find our searchable achives at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search?path=NORTHUMBRIA or browse at http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/NORTHUMBRIA/ Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

Hi there wondered if anyone can help me. My grandmother was born Dorothea Lunn and on all census following remained known as such. However on her marriage details in 1903 and her death she was known as Wilhelmina C.R.D. Lunn. I know people used to take names of family but having gone way back I can find neither reason or rhyme for this. Is there anywhere I might be able to find what the initials stand for. Obviously the D. will be Dorothea but the others remain a mystery. Hope someone can help. Maureen

Thank you Mr. Pears for your kind and much appreciated welcome to the List. I have been on numerous lists most have welcomed the opportunity to follow threads that are occasionally thrown-up by these interchanges of information and comment. You can never tell - perhaps there might even be a serendipitious moment for someone on the list contained in this seemingly innocous exchange between Mr. Ovington and myself. James. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Pears" <bp@bpears.org.uk> To: <northumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [NMB] LOCATING A WILL > On 21/03/2010 18:02, D HIGGINS wrote: >> Hello List - as you can see below, List member Nivard Ovington has fully >> and >> swiftly replied to my question. Thank you Nivard and good hunting to all >> on >> the List. > > James > > Please don't copy private e-mails to the list. > > Those answering your post have a choice - they either respond via the > list or they reply directly to you. For many reasons I prefer folks to > reply via the list, but when people reply directly we must respect > that choice. By all means thank people via the list - but don't copy > their private e-mails here. > > Brian > -- > Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ > Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List > GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer > > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 21/03/2010 15:50, Shirley Thompson wrote: > Can the list advise me how to access the passenger arrivals list from America. > I have Matthew Paul Wylie passenger arriving from America but cannot > access any details unless I subscribe to the World Ancestry. Shirley This is really off topic here as there is no explicit Northumberland/Durham connection. As to you query - as far as I'm aware you can use Pay per View to access records you don't have on subscription. Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

On 21/03/2010 18:02, D HIGGINS wrote: > Hello List - as you can see below, List member Nivard Ovington has fully and > swiftly replied to my question. Thank you Nivard and good hunting to all on > the List. James Please don't copy private e-mails to the list. Those answering your post have a choice - they either respond via the list or they reply directly to you. For many reasons I prefer folks to reply via the list, but when people reply directly we must respect that choice. By all means thank people via the list - but don't copy their private e-mails here. Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

Hello List - as you can see below, List member Nivard Ovington has fully and swiftly replied to my question. Thank you Nivard and good hunting to all on the List. James. ============= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@sky.com> To: <higgs1935@btinternet.com> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [NMB] LOCATING A WILL > Re wills 1858 to date for the whole of England and Wales. > > To see if there was a will you need to check the calendar of wills which > as > far as I am aware are not available online (yet) they are available at > Probate Offices and I am told certain major libraries, as that may not > help > you, I believe the LDS have them also? > > However the easiest way is to send to :- > > http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/ > > Select Forms and Guidance (top left menu) > > Under work type, select Probate > > This will show a list of forms, Pa1S is the application for a probate > search. The second page has some instructions, cost, method of payment > etc. > > If you send a letter to the address on the form, with cheque for five > pounds giving the name, place of death, date of death as near as you know > it, they will search and supply copies, request copies of grant and will. > (the non returnable fee includes a four year search) > > I do not think they take payment except cheque or postal order (UK) or > International Money order in Sterling (from outside UK) > > As far as I am aware there is no facility for ordering online or by e > mail. > > There is a project inhand to put the Probate indexes online but that will > be some time before its available. > (source Probate Office) > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > >> Hello - I am a new subscriber to the List - can sks please advise me as >> to where I can obtain a copy of a will of someone who died in Newcastle >> Upon Tyne, 1934 might be found. >> >> Many thanks. James. >

Hello - I am a new subscriber to the List - can sks please advise me as to where I can obtain a copy of a will of someone who died in Newcastle Upon Tyne, 1934 might be found. Many thanks. James.

Can the list advise me how to access the passenger arrivals list from America. I have Matthew Paul Wylie passenger arriving from America but cannot access any details unless I subscribe to the World Ancestry. Regards Shirley.

On 20/03/2010 15:18, alan-vickers@lineone.net wrote: > Brian - when I worked in the mining industry the men doing this type > of work were often called individually 'canch man' or the team 'canch > men'. Remembering that a coal seam could be as low as 12 inches in > thickness then you will see that a considerable amount of stone had to > be taken up or brought down in order to make a roadway of about 9 feet > high. The thicker the seam then the less stone that had to be removed > in order to make height. Much of the stone was made into roadway > 'packs' that provided extra support for the roadway. Alan Thanks for that additional information. As I said in my reply to Chris, it's a mining term I've not come across before, so I'm delighted to hear about it, especially from someone directly involved. Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

Brian - when I worked in the mining industry the men doing this type of work were often called individually 'canch man' or the team 'canch men'. Remembering that a coal seam could be as low as 12 inches in thickness then you will see that a considerable amount of stone had to be taken up or brought down in order to make a roadway of about 9 feet high. The thicker the seam then the less stone that had to be removed in order to make height. Much of the stone was made into roadway 'packs' that provided extra support for the roadway. Alan Vickers.

On 20/03/2010 13:26, Michael Temple wrote: > Could that "c" be a crunched up "w" and "i", giving "winch work" ? Thanks to Michael and Patrick for their contributions. Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

A thought --- Could that "c" be a crunched up "w" and "i", giving "winch work" ? Mike Temple, Spain. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Pears" <bp@bpears.org.uk> To: <northumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 2:16 PM Subject: [NMB] Occupation? > > In 1911 a relative of mine, 33 year-old George Voyzey, was living at > 18 Arkwright Street, Bensham, Gateshead. On the census of that year > he describes himself as a "miner canch work" - can anyone please > tell me what that means? > > You can read it for yourself at > > http://www.bpears.org.uk/temp/occ2.jpg > > or see it in context on RG14/30485 RD557 SD2 ED75 SN171 > > Brian > -- > Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ > Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List > GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer > > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2758 - Release Date: 03/19/10 22:07:00