Brian, What a treasure trove this website is. I have been searching for several years for vintage photographs of South Shields villages, particularly Westoe where my William MASON of Craster moved to mid 1800's. Marvellous photos - invaluable to how our ancestors lived, especially to we far-flung descendents who are unfamiliar with any aspect of Tyneside lifestyle. Thanks, Pamela in Bermuda -----Original Message----- From: northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Brian Pears Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 11:16 AM To: northumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: [NMB] South Tyneside Photographs South Tyneside Libraries have put their extensive photograph collection online: http://www.southtynesideimages.org.uk/ Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List

South Tyneside Libraries have put their extensive photograph collection online: http://www.southtynesideimages.org.uk/ Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

I have a Robert Septimus FLETCHER, baptized 25 Nov 1877 Ovingham,NBL. Seventh son in the family. Alan Hill ----- Original Message Follows ----- > My father was named Septimus - and yes - he was the > seventh son in the family - born in 1914. > > Heather > > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the > list, please send an email to > NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the message

On 25/03/2010 11:39, glendalight@manx.net wrote: > We are all probably a bit fed up with these two by now. We really are drifting off-topic here. Unless someone has anything new which has a local relevance and is directly related to the original query, I think we'd better close this thread. Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

Hi We are all probably a bit fed up with these two by now. Neither of these names would have struck me as odd but I am nearer to the generation that would have used them as forenames. But thought someone may be interested to know that Zenobia was a queen of Palmyra (part of the Roman Province of Syria) in about the 3rd century AD. Actually, she had a second husband with a middle name of Septimius (not quite the same) Having experienced what is euphemistically known as "a full life", she has cropped up in operas, books and art, which explains the common Victorian usage. I suspect the father of these 2 persons had a classical education , which would account for their use in this case. To add a Northern touch, Lucius Septimus Severus was responsible for improving Hadrian's Wall(about 2nd century?) Regards Glenda

Hi Robin, Take the C off it will be Axwell Park. Just down the from Bleach Green. Bob -----Original Message----- From: northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of robin@scottishwool.com Sent: 25 March 2010 08:51 To: northumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: [NMB] Place name - Caxwell Park Can anyone tell me where Caxwell Park was? On 1940 March 23. At Winlaton-on-Tyne Cecil Charles ROPER married Constance Lilian DAGLISH . He gives his address as ³Hillcroft², Caxwell Park. Occupation Engine Driver. She was at Woodvale Road, Bleach Green .. Which I have found on the Durham CC GIS mapping. TIA Robin -- Robin & Margaret McEwen-King, Middletown Farm, Nemphlar, Scotland New lamb videos for our grand children and friends at http://www.scottishwool.com/ The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2767 - Release Date: 03/24/10 07:33:00 -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1100 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Can anyone tell me where Caxwell Park was? On 1940 March 23. At Winlaton-on-Tyne Cecil Charles ROPER married Constance Lilian DAGLISH . He gives his address as ³Hillcroft², Caxwell Park. Occupation Engine Driver. She was at Woodvale Road, Bleach Green .. Which I have found on the Durham CC GIS mapping. TIA Robin -- Robin & Margaret McEwen-King, Middletown Farm, Nemphlar, Scotland New lamb videos for our grand children and friends at http://www.scottishwool.com/

Hi Robin It was probably Axwell Park. I lived there from 1941 until 1969 and there was a Roper family Heather robin@scottishwool.com wrote: > Can anyone tell me where Caxwell Park was? > > On 1940 March 23. At Winlaton-on-Tyne Cecil Charles ROPER married Constance > Lilian DAGLISH . > He gives his address as ³Hillcroft², Caxwell Park. Occupation Engine > Driver. > > She was at Woodvale Road, Bleach Green .. Which I have found on the Durham > CC GIS mapping. > > > TIA > > > Robin > > >

Well I have examples of Septimus being the 7th and also possibly not. Joseph Septimus HECKELS b. 1845 S. Shields Was the 7th child (all sons). His brother Matthew named one of his sons Joseph Septimus. He is the fifth known child (again all sons) although there are two potential gaps that would allow for a couple of births and infant deaths in his parents nine year marriage. This possibility is strengthened by the name of the next child Matthew Octavius Heckels. Unfortunately the potential ninth child was a girl so they missed the possibility of naming it Nonus and by the time the tenth came they had abandoned the Roman "Decimus" for the Ancient English "Albion". Imperial thoughts had not been in their mind for the earlier sons, the first two were John Wesley and William Martin Luther. John Heckels -----Original Message----- From: northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:northumbria-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Alan Hill Sent: 25 March 2010 00:25 To: northumbria@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [NMB] Inexplicable forenames? Septimus I have a Robert Septimus FLETCHER, baptized 25 Nov 1877 Ovingham,NBL. Seventh son in the family. Alan Hill ----- Original Message Follows ----- > My father was named Septimus - and yes - he was the > seventh son in the family - born in 1914. > > Heather > >

Thanks for this Joan, I have a Henry Septimus Bennett b 1866 Ayers Quay who is a seventh child which I hadn't thought about before [and a Charles Septimus Westgate b 1854 in Norfolk (8th child) so maybe the name was also popular at the time] ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:14:27 -0400 From: "Joan Rooney" <mc.rooney@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: [NMB] Inexplicable forenames? Septimus To: <northumbria@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP61724C694A0E4EEC9DBA7691260@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original BTW Septimus was usually a name given to the seventh child in a family. I've seen it before. Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: "karen" <karen.milkhillcottage@gmail.com> To: <northumbria@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 07:41 Subject: Re: [NMB] Inexplicable forenames? > Hi Chris, > > On 22 March 2010 11:04, Christopher Morgan > <chrismorgan4@btinternet.com>wrote: > >> I cannot help with your query, but sometimes once you find out more about > their lives the reasons for unusual names can emerge. My GG Grandfather > John > Ray Cook named two of his children Alfred Septimus and Zenobia. At the > time > I found this I looked for all sorts of possible reasons for these names > but > found nothing obvious. > > A long while later I found out that Alfred Septimus Palmer was the pit > manager at Wardley Colliery where my GG Grandfather worked and in the 1881 > census a cousin of mine found that a few doors down from John Ray Cooks > family in Wardley was a Zenobia Robinson, daughter of Morgan Robinson a > Colliery Viewer and probably my GG Grandfathers boss. > > > > Karen > > >

This may help, I have lists printed in the local paper following the funerals of 2 of my ancestors who were noted businessmen, these detailed the family mourners and their relation ship to the deceased, I found this most useful. Copies of back newspapers are held at Newcastle Library, Newbridge St Newcastle upon Tyne Barbara On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 5:56 PM, REID COOPER <res20rs2@verizon.net> wrote: > Thanks to Jenny, Nivard and Brian for sharing their experience and > suggestions. We have the same distinctions between death notices and > obituaries here in the States. Obituaries were much more common in small > towns prior to the 1920's and earlier. These days many newspapers will print > an obituary for a rather hefty fee if the family is so inclined. > > I had hoped that even a death notice would shed some light on other family > members, and not just the deceased. There was much helpful information even > in the notices of death examples that Brian shared.  Because Samuel was a > man of some importance as Chief Inspector, and his son Christopher Tate > lived to be 90 and had lived and worked in Gosforth for so long, I thought > that they might have had some mention somewhere. > > > > I think I need to contact the Library Services in Tyne and Wear and see if I > can pay someone to do a search since I have specific death dates and > addresses to go by. Thanks to the group for your comments. > > Reid Cooper > > > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

My father was named Septimus - and yes - he was the seventh son in the family - born in 1914. Heather

Thanks to Jenny, Nivard and Brian for sharing their experience and suggestions. We have the same distinctions between death notices and obituaries here in the States. Obituaries were much more common in small towns prior to the 1920's and earlier. These days many newspapers will print an obituary for a rather hefty fee if the family is so inclined. I had hoped that even a death notice would shed some light on other family members, and not just the deceased. There was much helpful information even in the notices of death examples that Brian shared. Because Samuel was a man of some importance as Chief Inspector, and his son Christopher Tate lived to be 90 and had lived and worked in Gosforth for so long, I thought that they might have had some mention somewhere. I think I need to contact the Library Services in Tyne and Wear and see if I can pay someone to do a search since I have specific death dates and addresses to go by. Thanks to the group for your comments. Reid Cooper

Many thanks Vivienne for your census references, I now have all that I require about Heugh Street. Gen in NBL, UK > Subject: Re: [NMB] Heugh Street, Westoe DUR 1861 and 1871: REFERENCES > > 1861 and 1871 references for a house on Heugh St: > > 1861 > RG09. Piece 3785. Folio 79. Page 17. > > 1871 > RG10. Piece 5027. Folio 73. Paage 68. _________________________________________________________________ Tell us your greatest, weirdest and funniest Hotmail stories http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/

On 23/03/2010 11:41, Nivard Ovington wrote: > I think its a difference between what we in England or Britain know as an > obituary (a write up of a persons life and career and momentous happenings > in that persons life) and a death notice To illustrate the difference, here are two death notices (a great uncle and a great aunt): http://www.bpears.org.uk/temp/Scan_1_0582.jpg http://www.bpears.org.uk/temp/Scan_1_0583.jpg and two short obituaries (my grandfather & father). http://www.bpears.org.uk/temp/NP.jpg http://www.bpears.org.uk/temp/Scan_1_0599.jpg Brian -- Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer

Many thanks Nivard. I appreciate the advice. Cathy On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Nivard Ovington <ovington1@sky.com> wrote: > Hi Cathy > > You will find fathers recorded on marriage certificates with no mention of > "deceased" yet they were long gone, and you may also find fathers recorded > as "deceased" when they are still very much alive (a good excuse for a > father not to be at the wedding perhaps) > > Everything you find on a certificate is only as good as the information > given > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > > Thank you Cecelia. I'm beginning to think it may well be an error as you > > suggest. Can I ask as well - were fathers always recorded as deceased on > > wedding certs if they were dead? If so, James and Joseph were both alive > > at > > the times of the marriages, which should mean I could perhaps find 'him' > > in > > the 1841 census? > > > > I'll keep trying! > > Cathy > > > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Robin, Could William Main have been working on the construction of the Spanish Railway system perhaps? You say that in the 1851 census he is shown inn Newcastle with the occupation of Clerk to Engineer, I noticed that in that 1851 entry the enumerator has added in faint pencil the word Civil, Civil Engineer? I wonder if that Engineer, that William was clerk to, was working in Railway construction and took William with him to Spain to help with setting up the railways in the Malaga area of Spain maybe. There were Railway Engineers from the North East of England that were consulted on the construction of various of the Spanish railways, from what I can make out. From what I could find online about the history of the Spanish Railway system the Railway was built from Malaga to Cordoba between 1860-1865 could your William have gone from Gates head to the area of Malaga for this reason I wonder this time frame fits with the death you have found? Unfortunately Civil Registration in Spain did not begin until 1871, too late for William Main's death to have been registered, otherwise I might have been able to get you a copy of the death cert., from the Malaga Registrars office. There is no central registrars office here, such as the GRO in the UK and no countrywide index of BMDs, such as the GRO index either it is all held locally in each town. Where did you find the MI for William Main, is he mentioned on a stone in a cemetery in Northumberland or County Durham or is it actually in Malaga? Regards Jenny DeAngelis Spain. <<> Is there evidence for migrants from Tyneside to Spain in the 1850's? > We have a possible death for William Elliott MAIN on an MI in Malaga in > 1863. > William Elliot MAIN was born in Gateshead in October 1837. In the 1851 > Census he is a 'Clerk to Engineer' age 13 living in Cumberland Row > Newcastle > upon Tyne with his mother (Margaret nee ELLIOTT) > We have not found him in later censuses and he is not named in his > mother's > will written in 1873.>>

On 23/03/2010 22:47, "Jenny De Angelis" <jennyda2@gmail.com> wrote: > Where did you find the MI for William Main, is he mentioned on a stone in a > cemetery in Northumberland or County Durham or is it actually in Malaga? Hi Jenny He is buried in the English Cemetery in Malaga I found him first by googling his name with double quotes and came up with http://website.lineone.net/~stephaniebidmead/malaga.htm This has an MI transcript which says 'of Newcastle" Then by searching for the cemetery found http://www.stgeorgemalaga.org/index_000009.htm Here it runs out he is listed as a Bachelor and 'Commercial Clerk" Now have to see if his death is reported back in Newcastle and is there more in the records in Malaga. Regards Robin Ps we lived in Madrid in 1970/72 .. I worked there for several years before

Hi Cathy You will find fathers recorded on marriage certificates with no mention of "deceased" yet they were long gone, and you may also find fathers recorded as "deceased" when they are still very much alive (a good excuse for a father not to be at the wedding perhaps) Everything you find on a certificate is only as good as the information given Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Thank you Cecelia. I'm beginning to think it may well be an error as you > suggest. Can I ask as well - were fathers always recorded as deceased on > wedding certs if they were dead? If so, James and Joseph were both alive > at > the times of the marriages, which should mean I could perhaps find 'him' > in > the 1841 census? > > I'll keep trying! > Cathy

Thank you Cecelia. I'm beginning to think it may well be an error as you suggest. Can I ask as well - were fathers always recorded as deceased on wedding certs if they were dead? If so, James and Joseph were both alive at the times of the marriages, which should mean I could perhaps find 'him' in the 1841 census? I'll keep trying! Cathy On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Cecilia Bell <bell193@btinternet.com>wrote: > If you are sure you have the correct certificate it might be no more than a > mistake by the registrar. I have a copy of my uncle's marriage > certificate. > His father was definitely John, but he appears as James on the certificate, > but it is definitely the correct certificate in every other detail. > > Regards, > Cecilia Bell in Essex UK > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "C Bridges" <c-bridges@sky.com> > To: <northumbria@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:46 PM > Subject: Re: [NMB] GATISS > > > > common abbreviations for Joseph and James, ie "Jos" and "Jas", are often > confused. > > Thank you Brian. I hadn't thought of this. However, I have both original > (i.e. photocopied) certs and both names are in full. Also the occupations > are mason (James1839) and joiner (Joseph 1846). These occupations seem > incongruent. > > When the certificate was filled in could any member of the wedding party > offer the information? What was the usual procedure? > > Cathy > > On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Brian Pears <bp@bpears.org.uk> wrote: > > > On 22/03/2010 21:16, C Bridges wrote: > > > Has anyone any details about this name/ family and/or any advice about > > why > > > there could be two fathers? > > > > Unfortunately the common abbreviations for Joseph and James, > > ie "Jos" and "Jas", are often confused. So I reckon that > > the father's name on one of the certificates was abbreviated > > at some point and then misread. > > > > Brian > > -- > > Brian Pears (Gateshead, UK) http://www.bpears.org.uk/ > > Joint List Admin NORTHUMBRIA Genealogy Mailing List > > GENUKI Northumberland Maintainer > > > > > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2763 - Release Date: 03/22/10 > 07:33:00 > > > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > NORTHUMBRIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >