Yes, it is a shame. The building appears to be quite sound: perhaps the owners of the house use it for storage; or there may be unseen structural problems. I may go and ask the next time I am in that direction - probably next August. Melvyn. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Temple" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn > Melvyn, > I'm surprised that the chapel has not been snapped up by some property > developer ! > Mike Temple. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Melvyn Hunter" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 6:13 PM > Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn > > >> Dear Michael, >> >> During renovations, the chimney on the road end of the manse fell in >> through >> the roof. Since, the manse has been rebuilt and is an occupied house. The >> chapel (I last saw in August 2012) remains empty and (probably) unused. >> >> Melvyn. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Michael Temple" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 1:30 PM >> Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn >> >> >>>I believe you are correct about Birdhopecraig chapel. >>> I seem to recall that the earlier (1672) one was at Sillsburnfoot, not >>> very >>> far from where the "new" stone chapel was built in 1826. >>> I haven't been in that area for a few years now, but I do recall the >>> chapel >>> is now closed and is possibly a private residence now ? >>> Mike Temple. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Geoff Nicholson" <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 2:02 PM >>> Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at >>> Woodhorn >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Although BHC chapel was built in 1826 according to "British Listed >>>> Buildings" >>>> webpage, it seems as though marriages were performed pre-1837 at other >>>> rural >>>> locations. The Carterhead and Cocklaw could have been farms, private >>>> houses, >>>> field chapel meetings or anywhere non-Conformist people worshiped >>>> together >>>> at >>>> that time. >>>> >>>> Gen: >>>> >>>> In England and Wales there were NO marriages in nonconformist >>>> chapels >>>> before 1837. I know that sometimes pre-1837 marriages are indeed >>>> recorded >>>> in their registers but they were always ones of congregation members >>>> who >>>> had married elsewhere. The nonconformist church register was just a >>>> handy >>>> record of the fact that they were married and with details such as >>>> where, >>>> when etc. In particular I have seen Roman Catholic registers with >>>> numerous pre-1837 weddings recorded (eg Bishopwearmouth St Mary) but on >>>> investigation all turn out to have been in Ireland b efore the couple >>>> moved over to Sunderland! >>>> >>>> While I am not sure of the status of Cocklaw as a wedding venue, >>>> "The >>>> Carterhead" seems to have been a Border Marriage House, similar to >>>> those >>>> at Lamberton Toll, Gretna Green etc, and was presumably on the border >>>> at >>>> Carter Bar on what is now the A68 road. >>>> >>>> Incidentally, Birdhopecraig registers go back well before 1826. >>>> What >>>> happened then was a re-building of an existing chapel. It might be >>>> that >>>> its location was changed slightly, as I have a feeling I once heard it >>>> had >>>> begun some quarter to half a mile further up the road from where it is >>>> now. It was founded in 1672 and the earliest surviving register dates >>>> from 1728. >>>> >>>> Geoff Nicholson >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> .. >>>> Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any >>>> reply...... Thank you! >>>> >>>> The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at >>>> http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> .. >>> Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any >>> reply...... Thank you! >>> >>> The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at >>> http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2637/6024 - Release Date: >>> 01/10/13 >>> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >>> >> >> .. >> Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any >> reply...... Thank you! >> >> The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at >> http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2637/6024 - Release Date: 01/10/13 > Internal Virus Database is out of date. >

Great tip.Thanks. On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Geoff Nicholson <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > I would have thought CARR is tricky to record inaccurately! > > > Don't forget that the Scottish equivalent, with the same > pronunciation, is Kerr. Usually a variation on a standard surname will > come next to it, or very close to it, in any alphabetical index, but Carr > and Kerr will always be well apart! It could be that the census enumerator > was scottish, or at least brought up and educated in Scotland, and being > told "Carr" would automatically write it as "Kerr". > > Geoff Nicholson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: C Bridges <[email protected]> > To: northumbria <[email protected]> > Sent: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:30 > Subject: Re: [NMB] CARR > > > Hi Joan - yes census Sunday 5th April 1891. I couldn't find Dorothy. The > certs will definitely help as they will also give a location and this could > narrow down where John William may have been at this time. Enumerators are > notorious for alternative spelling so it is often worth experimenting > although I would have thought CARR is tricky to record inaccurately! It > appears John William had several siblings. Tracking them may also throw up > where he is in 1891/ 1901. His wife Maria Ellen seems to have originated > from Sunderland (Deptford) It may be worth looking in this location also. > Hope this helps. > > > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:47 AM, J Malcouronne <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > Hi > > > > It could be my John William, his father Jonathan died in the Sept quarter > > 1888 (I've sent away for the death certificate) his mother Dorothy died > in > > the Sept quarter 1891 ( I am going to get the certificate) The > certificates > > should help. Dorothy should be in the 1891 census, weren't they taken in > > April? > > Thanks for getting back to me. > > Cheers > > Joan > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "C Bridges" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 9:54 PM > > Subject: Re: [NMB] CARR > > > > > > > Hi Joan I have found a William Carr 1901 census b. c. 1872 Q Hill > working > > > as a farm labourer. Possible? No luck on 1891 but I am assuming his > > > parents Jonathan & Dorothy are both dead by 1891 census? > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:40 PM, J Malcouronne > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > >> > > .. > > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > > reply...... Thank you! > > > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > > > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Have just re-checked my notes - it was "The Carterhead" noted twice. The reference to Carter Bar put me off! I can find no reference to a Marriage House there. Gen in NBL England > I - and, I think, the original query - referred to "The Carterhead", not "The Carterbarn". While I cannot off-hand point to any single example, I just "know", from having read it in several different places, that what we call Carter Bar (NOT "Barn") was originally called The Carterhead. Its status as the head of a valley is most obvious from the English side; possibly less so from the Scottish side, though it does stand at the head of a (smaller) valley on that side also. Perhaps one of those valleys is or was known locally as the Carter Valley, but if so I have never heard of it; on the English side it is Redesdale, or a tributary of it, and on the Scottish side it is Jedforest, the valley of the Jed Water, or a tributary of it. I also take it as granted that the original "Bar" was not a place selling drinks, but a Toll Bar in the days when what is now the A68 was a turnpike road. > > There is another name, now long disused, which has also applied to the Carter Bar district, and that is "Redeswire", a Border Battle having been fought there several centuries ago. > > Geoff Nicholson

Susan: To answer your queries one at a time: If there is doubt as to the spelling all you can do is to check every instance of each of them that you can find (the Mormon FamilySearch site is a good way tog et a list of most of those from eg Northumberland), and compare them with what you already know, eliminating all those which don't match your previous information. If you are still left with several possibilities to choose from then you need to research the person further! I anticipate this could be very difficult, as Carr is very common in Northumberland, just as Kerr is in the Scottish Borders. There are also lots of Carrs in Co Durham. Some of those in Northumberland were minor landowners in the north of the county - around Lowick district - and some (of the Lowick family or of some other?) became wealthy merchants in Newcastle and, through their intermarriage with another very wealthy old family, the Ellisons, became ancestors of the Carr-Ellison family, which is still prominent in Northumberland. However, most local Carrs are of humbler ancestry. You must have some idea of where your Carrs came from. If all you know is "Britain", then you really do need to do more research at your end to find where in Britain that was. Even if you know that they were from eg Northumberland, I would still be asking which town or parish in Northumberland that was, and also what period you are asking about - eg when was the person concerned born (roughly, if you don't know exactly)? The English/Welsh censuses are available on-line, but they are on a pay-per-view basis, from eg Ancestry. Your best way of getting a cheap viewing will be to visit your local LDS Family History Centre. You don't have to be a Mormon to do so. They may well have it on microfilm but even if they don't, they can get the film for you from their HQ in Salt Lake City for a nominal fee. In England many major public reference libraries have their own Library Subscriptions to eg FindMyPast and to Ancestry and you can visit the library to view those sites there, free of charge. It could well be that wherever you are (you didn't mention your country!) there may be a similar arrangement. If you try any of the arrangements I have mentioned I would strongly advise you to telephone first and make an appointment, to save a wasted journey. Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: Susan C <[email protected]> To: northumbria <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:07 Subject: [NMB] Question regarding CARR/Kerr Hello, How can we determine the correct person, if the spelling is/was written Kerr when it is actually CARR? I am not familiar with accessing the census in the UK. Are the census online or through a paid subscription? I am new to your postings and have been following the posts the last few days. Regards, Susan ________________________________ From: Geoff Nicholson <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [NMB] CARR I would have thought CARR is tricky to record inaccurately! Don't forget that the Scottish equivalent, with the same pronunciation, is Kerr. Usually a variation on a standard surname will come next to it, or very close to it, in any alphabetical index, but Carr and Kerr will always be well apart! It could be that the census enumerator was scottish, or at least brought up and educated in Scotland, and being told "Carr" would automatically write it as "Kerr". Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: C Bridges <[email protected]> To: northumbria <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:30 Subject: Re: [NMB] CARR Hi Joan - yes census Sunday 5th April 1891. I couldn't find Dorothy. The certs will definitely help as they will also give a location and this could narrow down where John William may have been at this time. Enumerators are notorious for alternative spelling so it is often worth experimenting although I would have thought CARR is tricky to record inaccurately! It appears John William had several siblings. Tracking them may also throw up where he is in 1891/ 1901. His wife Maria Ellen seems to have originated from Sunderland (Deptford) It may be worth looking in this location also. Hope this helps. On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:47 AM, J Malcouronne <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi > > It could be my John William, his father Jonathan died in the Sept quarter > 1888 (I've sent away for the death certificate) his mother Dorothy died in > the Sept quarter 1891 ( I am going to get the certificate) The certificates > should help. Dorothy should be in the 1891 census, weren't they taken in > April? > Thanks for getting back to me. > Cheers > Joan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "C Bridges" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [NMB] CARR > > > > Hi Joan I have found a William Carr 1901 census b. c. 1872 Q Hill working > > as a farm labourer. Possible? No luck on 1891 but I am assuming his > > parents Jonathan & Dorothy are both dead by 1891 census? > > > > On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:40 PM, J Malcouronne > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > >> > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Geoff No, he married Maria Ellen Kear 14 July 1908 at Thornley, Durham, it was here second marriage her maiden name was Nelson. On the marriage certificate it states he is a bachelor. Cheers Joan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Nicholson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 12:35 AM Subject: Re: [NMB] CARR > > Ancestry show only one John W Carr, aged 19, in Co Durham. He was born in > Sunderland and living with his wife, Isabella, in Monkwearmouth Shore > (RG12/4149, folio 102, page 40). Could that be him? > > Geoff Nicholson > > > >

Melvyn, I'm surprised that the chapel has not been snapped up by some property developer ! Mike Temple. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melvyn Hunter" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn > Dear Michael, > > During renovations, the chimney on the road end of the manse fell in > through > the roof. Since, the manse has been rebuilt and is an occupied house. The > chapel (I last saw in August 2012) remains empty and (probably) unused. > > Melvyn. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Temple" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 1:30 PM > Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn > > >>I believe you are correct about Birdhopecraig chapel. >> I seem to recall that the earlier (1672) one was at Sillsburnfoot, not >> very >> far from where the "new" stone chapel was built in 1826. >> I haven't been in that area for a few years now, but I do recall the >> chapel >> is now closed and is possibly a private residence now ? >> Mike Temple. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Geoff Nicholson" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 2:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn >> >> >>> >>> Although BHC chapel was built in 1826 according to "British Listed >>> Buildings" >>> webpage, it seems as though marriages were performed pre-1837 at other >>> rural >>> locations. The Carterhead and Cocklaw could have been farms, private >>> houses, >>> field chapel meetings or anywhere non-Conformist people worshiped >>> together >>> at >>> that time. >>> >>> Gen: >>> >>> In England and Wales there were NO marriages in nonconformist >>> chapels >>> before 1837. I know that sometimes pre-1837 marriages are indeed >>> recorded >>> in their registers but they were always ones of congregation members who >>> had married elsewhere. The nonconformist church register was just a >>> handy >>> record of the fact that they were married and with details such as >>> where, >>> when etc. In particular I have seen Roman Catholic registers with >>> numerous pre-1837 weddings recorded (eg Bishopwearmouth St Mary) but on >>> investigation all turn out to have been in Ireland b efore the couple >>> moved over to Sunderland! >>> >>> While I am not sure of the status of Cocklaw as a wedding venue, >>> "The >>> Carterhead" seems to have been a Border Marriage House, similar to those >>> at Lamberton Toll, Gretna Green etc, and was presumably on the border at >>> Carter Bar on what is now the A68 road. >>> >>> Incidentally, Birdhopecraig registers go back well before 1826. >>> What >>> happened then was a re-building of an existing chapel. It might be that >>> its location was changed slightly, as I have a feeling I once heard it >>> had >>> begun some quarter to half a mile further up the road from where it is >>> now. It was founded in 1672 and the earliest surviving register dates >>> from 1728. >>> >>> Geoff Nicholson >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> .. >>> Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any >>> reply...... Thank you! >>> >>> The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at >>> http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> .. >> Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any >> reply...... Thank you! >> >> The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at >> http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2637/6024 - Release Date: 01/10/13 >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >> > > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pre 1826, "The Presbyterian worship place at the back of Woolaw", this would be the original Birdhopecraig chapel, near the Sillsburnfoot, North end of Rochester village. The local Presbyterians also used a burial ground at the back of a ruined chapel at Byrness, before the building of St. Francis chapel in 1798 on that same area. Mike Temple. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melvyn Hunter" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn Hi, Many thanks for your time and effort. I know both these families: my great-uncle used to stay with the Thomas Hunter you mentioned, think he was a cousin - only later did we discover that he was not related at all. James was his son. A grandson of Thomas' moved to Buckinghamshire and I knew his daughter for many years prior to her death in 2006. The Douglass' you mentioned were children of 'my'Isabella's' younger brother. I have had close contact with the descendants of another brother of Isabella: strangely, both these families have spelled the surname with ss at the end. Most of the ones buried in Horsley were baptised at Otterburn. I have also tracked the other children of Ralph and Isabella, and have the details of all bar one through to demise. So far as pre-1826 services are concerned, I came across documents at the Central Library that mentioned a Presbyterian worship place at the 'back of Woollaw', this being used as far back as the days of Padon preaching in the open. Ralph Hunter had a brother who settled in Falstone where there is a presbyterian church as well as an Anglican one. Your mention of the minister of Flastone reminded me - perhaps there is a link. Again, many thanks - lots more things to try. Melvyn. ----- Original Message ----- From: "gen listlass" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn Melvyn I had a look at some resources at Woodhorn yesterday for your Hunters and Douglass's. Re: the missing gravestone for Isabella HUNTER. I looked at the MI's for Holy Trinity, Horsley church transcribed by Phil Thirkell in 1989. There are two Hunter gravestones indexed but neither are for Isabella 1 Number 42 Thomas beloved husband of Anne Elisabeth HUNTER who died 19 May 1932 aged 82 years and the above Anne Elisabeth HUNTER died 7 Sept 1938 aged 86 years “At Rest” 2 Number 80 In memory of Margaret wife of James HUNTER who died at Rochester Feb 18, 1868 aged 45. James HUNTER who died Sept 30th 1899 aged 80 years. Robert their son died Oct 21, 1887 aged 22 years. Elisabeth their daughter died Jul 26, 1889 aged 26John their son who died Feb 15, 1929 aged 72 yearsEleanor Robinson HUNTER who died at Rochester 25 Sept 1937 aged 84 years I also checked for the DOUGLAS family and found only one MI : Number 33 Erected to the memory of Mary DOUGLASS who died at Sills Apr 23 1900 aged 78 years.Also Douglass DOUGLASS who died at Sills Fe 23 1901 aged 59 years.Also John DOUGLASS who died at Sills Feb 20 1904 aged 72 yearsAlso Robert DOUGLASS who died at Sills Dec 30 1912 aged 88 years You possibly already have these OR they are not your family but the place-name "Sills" seems a likely match. DOUGLASS was always spelled with a double "ss" at the end. As for the marriage of Ralph HUNTER and Isabella DOUGLASS:I checked the Crossborder marriage lists (Misc 57) from the Berwick and Kelso newspapers between 1835-1843 but found no marriage for these two reported to the newspapers. I checked the Lamberton Toll marriage between 1839-1841 but nothing. I checked Mordington between the same dates, 3 HUNTER grooms but no Ralph's. However there are more Cross Border Marriage books to check still. When I came home I looked at the 1841 census for Ralph and Isabella and they seem to be living separately He is an "ag lab" and she is a FS = female servant. It doesn't say whether they are married or unmarried but I would guess not as Isabella is down as Isabella DOUGLASS. Therefore with their first child being 8 on the 1851 census, I would have put their marriage between 1841 and 1844-ish, not 1840 unless you have other information. I looked at a baptism book for Birdhopecraig Presbyterian chapel (UR/P6/1/1/1/1) which had a few marriages in the back. Strangely they date from 1835--1903. (1835/6 were surprising for English Presbyterian marriages!) In 1835 there are two marriages at "the Carterhead"In 1836 there are 2 marriages at "Cocklaw"In 1838 there is one marriage at "Carterhead" all these marriages are performed by Geo. McFie minister In 1840 there were 2 marriages performed at "the Scotch church Birdhope Craig" by James ....?mont minister and "in the Scotch church here" by the minister of Falstone Geo. O Moffatt After that date things settle down to regular marriages, although very few, at Birdhopecraig Presb. chapel by a seemingly permanent minister. Although BHC chapel was built in 1826 according to "British Listed Buildings" webpage, it seems as though marriages were performed pre-1837 at other rural locations. The Carterhead and Cocklaw could have been farms, private houses, field chapel meetings or anywhere non-Conformist people worshiped together at that time. I've given this information about BHC at some length to show how sketchy some of the records and the marriages sometimes were. If your people were married at BHC they were not noted in this register. But absence of proof is not proof of absence! This marriage needs further investigation:-) Gen in NBL England > Although I have not come across any hard evidence, since most books I have > read for the area strongly imply no argument between denominations, the > information I have for my Hunter and Douglas families in Redesdale is that > the Douglas family were probably more religious than the Hunter family. > Perhaps the Douglas parents were not too keen on Isabella marrying an > Anglican and so Ralph and Isabella decided to nip over the border and get > married. Their middle child (my great-grandfather) trained at Otterburn > and > then moved to Galashiels to work in the tweed mills before moving further > north. He was appointed a deacon of Ladhope Free Church and later was > awarded for being a Free Kirk Sunday School teacher for 52 years in > total - > his mother's church background was obviously a strong influence in his > early > life. > > Melvyn. .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2637/6024 - Release Date: 01/10/13 Internal Virus Database is out of date. .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Joan - yes census Sunday 5th April 1891. I couldn't find Dorothy. The certs will definitely help as they will also give a location and this could narrow down where John William may have been at this time. Enumerators are notorious for alternative spelling so it is often worth experimenting although I would have thought CARR is tricky to record inaccurately! It appears John William had several siblings. Tracking them may also throw up where he is in 1891/ 1901. His wife Maria Ellen seems to have originated from Sunderland (Deptford) It may be worth looking in this location also. Hope this helps. On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:47 AM, J Malcouronne <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi > > It could be my John William, his father Jonathan died in the Sept quarter > 1888 (I've sent away for the death certificate) his mother Dorothy died in > the Sept quarter 1891 ( I am going to get the certificate) The certificates > should help. Dorothy should be in the 1891 census, weren't they taken in > April? > Thanks for getting back to me. > Cheers > Joan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "C Bridges" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [NMB] CARR > > > > Hi Joan I have found a William Carr 1901 census b. c. 1872 Q Hill working > > as a farm labourer. Possible? No luck on 1891 but I am assuming his > > parents Jonathan & Dorothy are both dead by 1891 census? > > > > On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:40 PM, J Malcouronne > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > >> > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello, How can we determine the correct person, if the spelling is/was written Kerr when it is actually CARR?  I am not familiar with accessing the census in the UK.  Are the census online or through a paid subscription?  I am new to your postings and have been following the posts the last few days.  Regards, Susan ________________________________ From: Geoff Nicholson <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [NMB] CARR I would have thought CARR is tricky to record inaccurately!     Don't forget that the Scottish equivalent, with the same pronunciation, is Kerr.  Usually a variation on a standard surname will come next to it, or very close to it, in any alphabetical index, but Carr and Kerr will always be well apart!  It could be that the census enumerator was scottish, or at least brought up and educated in Scotland, and being told "Carr" would automatically write it as "Kerr".                                 Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: C Bridges <[email protected]> To: northumbria <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:30 Subject: Re: [NMB] CARR Hi Joan - yes census Sunday 5th April 1891.  I couldn't find Dorothy.  The certs will definitely help as they will also give a location and this could narrow down where John William may have been at this time. Enumerators are notorious for alternative spelling so it is often worth experimenting although I would have thought CARR is tricky to record inaccurately!  It appears John William had several siblings.  Tracking them may also throw up where he is in 1891/ 1901. His wife Maria Ellen seems to have originated from Sunderland (Deptford) It may be worth looking in this location also. Hope this helps. On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:47 AM, J Malcouronne <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi > > It could be my John William, his father Jonathan died in the Sept quarter > 1888 (I've sent away for the death certificate) his mother Dorothy died in > the Sept quarter 1891 ( I am going to get the certificate) The certificates > should help.  Dorothy should be in the 1891 census, weren't they taken in > April? > Thanks for getting back to me. > Cheers > Joan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "C Bridges" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [NMB] CARR > > > > Hi Joan I have found a William Carr 1901 census b. c. 1872 Q Hill working > > as a farm labourer. Possible?  No luck on 1891 but I am assuming his > > parents Jonathan & Dorothy are both dead by 1891 census? > > > > On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:40 PM, J Malcouronne > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > >> > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I would have thought CARR is tricky to record inaccurately! Don't forget that the Scottish equivalent, with the same pronunciation, is Kerr. Usually a variation on a standard surname will come next to it, or very close to it, in any alphabetical index, but Carr and Kerr will always be well apart! It could be that the census enumerator was scottish, or at least brought up and educated in Scotland, and being told "Carr" would automatically write it as "Kerr". Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: C Bridges <[email protected]> To: northumbria <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 10:30 Subject: Re: [NMB] CARR Hi Joan - yes census Sunday 5th April 1891. I couldn't find Dorothy. The certs will definitely help as they will also give a location and this could narrow down where John William may have been at this time. Enumerators are notorious for alternative spelling so it is often worth experimenting although I would have thought CARR is tricky to record inaccurately! It appears John William had several siblings. Tracking them may also throw up where he is in 1891/ 1901. His wife Maria Ellen seems to have originated from Sunderland (Deptford) It may be worth looking in this location also. Hope this helps. On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:47 AM, J Malcouronne <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi > > It could be my John William, his father Jonathan died in the Sept quarter > 1888 (I've sent away for the death certificate) his mother Dorothy died in > the Sept quarter 1891 ( I am going to get the certificate) The certificates > should help. Dorothy should be in the 1891 census, weren't they taken in > April? > Thanks for getting back to me. > Cheers > Joan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "C Bridges" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 9:54 PM > Subject: Re: [NMB] CARR > > > > Hi Joan I have found a William Carr 1901 census b. c. 1872 Q Hill working > > as a farm labourer. Possible? No luck on 1891 but I am assuming his > > parents Jonathan & Dorothy are both dead by 1891 census? > > > > On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:40 PM, J Malcouronne > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > >> > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Joan I have found a William Carr 1901 census b. c. 1872 Q Hill working as a farm labourer. Possible? No luck on 1891 but I am assuming his parents Jonathan & Dorothy are both dead by 1891 census? On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:40 PM, J Malcouronne <[email protected]>wrote: > Hello Geoff > > No, he married Maria Ellen Kear 14 July 1908 at Thornley, Durham, it was > here second marriage her maiden name was Nelson. > On the marriage certificate it states he is a bachelor. > > Cheers Joan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoff Nicholson" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 12:35 AM > Subject: Re: [NMB] CARR > > > > > > Ancestry show only one John W Carr, aged 19, in Co Durham. He was born > in > > Sunderland and living with his wife, Isabella, in Monkwearmouth Shore > > (RG12/4149, folio 102, page 40). Could that be him? > > > > Geoff Nicholson > > > > > > > > > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Gen: I - and, I think, the original query - referred to "The Carterhead", not "The Carterbarn". While I cannot off-hand point to any single example, I just "know", from having read it in several different places, that what we call Carter Bar (NOT "Barn") was originally called The Carterhead. Its status as the head of a valley is most obvious from the English side; possibly less so from the Scottish side, though it does stand at the head of a (smaller) valley on that side also. Perhaps one of those valleys is or was known locally as the Carter Valley, but if so I have never heard of it; on the English side it is Redesdale, or a tributary of it, and on the Scottish side it is Jedforest, the valley of the Jed Water, or a tributary of it. I also take it as granted that the original "Bar" was not a place selling drinks, but a Toll Bar in the days when what is now the A68 was a turnpike road. There is another name, now long disused, which has also applied to the Carter Bar district, and that is "Redeswire", a Border Battle having been fought there several centuries ago. Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: gen listlass <[email protected]> To: northumbria <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 18:59 Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn Geoff > While I am not sure of the status of Cocklaw as a wedding venue, "The Carterhead" seems to have been a Border Marriage House, similar to those at Lamberton Toll, Gretna Green etc, and was presumably on the border at Carter Bar on what is now the A68 road. Where did you get your information that "the Carterbarn" was a Border Marriage House at Carter Bar? Gen in NBL England .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I can find my grandfather in the 1881 census and then not again until the 1911 census, where he was at Half Way House, Thornley, Durham, his name John William CARR born 10 Aug 1871 in Quarrington Hill, Durham, died 14 Feb 1919 Wheatley Hill, Durham. Any ideas how I can track him down between these dates?

Hello Margery and Nivard My husband's ancestor died at sea when a brand new ship the "Stamfordham" on its maiden voyage in 1877 from the Tyne was lost off Baltimore USA and no bodies or items from the ship were ever recovered. There was however a certificate issued "Certified Copy of an Entry in the Marine Register of Deaths" four months after the ship was reported missing. This certificate was used by his widow to administer the will etc. Regards Jill >Hi Margery > >Are you sure he died in Jan 1860? >Where does the information come from >Nothing in the deaths at sea or GRO index as you say, the two Ralph >GIBSONs in 1860 & 1861 in the GRO >index are accounted for > >Were the bodies recovered? >No body no death certificate > >A couple of bits from the papers > >(my brief summary) >The Newcastle Courant Feb 3 1860 >The Pallas lost on Sizewell Bank >Three of the crew drowned, viz, Mardin Newitz, Geo. Forrest, and Jno. Clark >(should that read three of the crew saved?)

Hello Jill,   Thank you for your help, I found a record of his death on Find My Past some time ago, he was buried at St Peter and St Paul Aldeburgh on 3rd Feb 1860.  I also paid for research with Suffolk Record Office and they came up with the same information, some of the dates dont quite tally up but they also said the body was found with two medals and other sundry articles.  Some portion of his clothes were marked, bearing the name of Gibson, he was supposed to be the mate of the brig Pallas.   His son the Rev Gibson had an instription on his grave marker at St Ebba's Church, Ebchester relating to his father Capt Ralph Coxon Gibson R.N.   I think I have the story right so far but no death certificate, hence my question.   Margery From: Jill Forster <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2013, 10:10 Subject: [NMB] Ralph Gibson & Deaths at Sea Hello Margery and Nivard My husband's ancestor died at sea when a brand new ship the "Stamfordham" on its maiden voyage in 1877 from the Tyne was lost off Baltimore USA and no bodies or items from the ship were ever recovered. There was however a certificate issued "Certified Copy of an Entry in the Marine Register of Deaths"  four months after the ship was reported missing.  This certificate was used by his widow to administer the will etc. Regards Jill >Hi Margery > >Are you sure he died in Jan 1860? >Where does the information come from >Nothing in the deaths at sea or GRO index as you say, the two Ralph >GIBSONs in 1860 & 1861 in the GRO >index are accounted for > >Were the bodies recovered? >No body no death certificate > >A couple of bits from the papers > >(my brief summary) >The Newcastle Courant Feb 3 1860 >The Pallas lost on Sizewell Bank >Three of the crew drowned, viz, Mardin Newitz, Geo. Forrest, and Jno. Clark >(should that read three of the crew saved?) .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Geoff > While I am not sure of the status of Cocklaw as a wedding venue, "The Carterhead" seems to have been a Border Marriage House, similar to those at Lamberton Toll, Gretna Green etc, and was presumably on the border at Carter Bar on what is now the A68 road. Where did you get your information that "the Carterbarn" was a Border Marriage House at Carter Bar? Gen in NBL England

Hi, Further to the Thomas Hunter Ann Elizabeth Whealleans burial: their original stone was white marble with inlaid lead lettering and placed at the extreme north west corner of the churchyard. It is now almost totally overgrown and, if you did not know it was there, you probably would not find it. More recently, the stone was duplicated in sandstone and added to the side of the stone on which their daughter is recorded. Melvyn. (Remembered to trim the rest this time) ----- Original Message ----- From: "gen listlass" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn Melvyn I had a look at some resources at Woodhorn yesterday for your Hunters and Douglass's.

Dear Michael, During renovations, the chimney on the road end of the manse fell in through the roof. Since, the manse has been rebuilt and is an occupied house. The chapel (I last saw in August 2012) remains empty and (probably) unused. Melvyn. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Temple" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn >I believe you are correct about Birdhopecraig chapel. > I seem to recall that the earlier (1672) one was at Sillsburnfoot, not > very > far from where the "new" stone chapel was built in 1826. > I haven't been in that area for a few years now, but I do recall the > chapel > is now closed and is possibly a private residence now ? > Mike Temple. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoff Nicholson" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 2:02 PM > Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn > > >> >> Although BHC chapel was built in 1826 according to "British Listed >> Buildings" >> webpage, it seems as though marriages were performed pre-1837 at other >> rural >> locations. The Carterhead and Cocklaw could have been farms, private >> houses, >> field chapel meetings or anywhere non-Conformist people worshiped >> together >> at >> that time. >> >> Gen: >> >> In England and Wales there were NO marriages in nonconformist chapels >> before 1837. I know that sometimes pre-1837 marriages are indeed >> recorded >> in their registers but they were always ones of congregation members who >> had married elsewhere. The nonconformist church register was just a >> handy >> record of the fact that they were married and with details such as where, >> when etc. In particular I have seen Roman Catholic registers with >> numerous pre-1837 weddings recorded (eg Bishopwearmouth St Mary) but on >> investigation all turn out to have been in Ireland b efore the couple >> moved over to Sunderland! >> >> While I am not sure of the status of Cocklaw as a wedding venue, "The >> Carterhead" seems to have been a Border Marriage House, similar to those >> at Lamberton Toll, Gretna Green etc, and was presumably on the border at >> Carter Bar on what is now the A68 road. >> >> Incidentally, Birdhopecraig registers go back well before 1826. What >> happened then was a re-building of an existing chapel. It might be that >> its location was changed slightly, as I have a feeling I once heard it >> had >> begun some quarter to half a mile further up the road from where it is >> now. It was founded in 1672 and the earliest surviving register dates >> from 1728. >> >> Geoff Nicholson >> >> >> >> >> >> .. >> Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any >> reply...... Thank you! >> >> The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at >> http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2637/6024 - Release Date: 01/10/13 > Internal Virus Database is out of date. >

Dear Geoff, I think you may have heard of the 'meeting house' at the back of Woollaw that I mentioned in an earlier reply. I remember there being foundations when I visited in the early 1970s. Melvyn. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Nicholson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn > > Although BHC chapel was built in 1826 according to "British Listed > Buildings" > webpage, it seems as though marriages were performed pre-1837 at other > rural > locations. The Carterhead and Cocklaw could have been farms, private > houses, > field chapel meetings or anywhere non-Conformist people worshiped together > at > that time. > > Gen: > > In England and Wales there were NO marriages in nonconformist chapels > before 1837. I know that sometimes pre-1837 marriages are indeed recorded > in their registers but they were always ones of congregation members who > had married elsewhere. The nonconformist church register was just a handy > record of the fact that they were married and with details such as where, > when etc. In particular I have seen Roman Catholic registers with > numerous pre-1837 weddings recorded (eg Bishopwearmouth St Mary) but on > investigation all turn out to have been in Ireland b efore the couple > moved over to Sunderland! > > While I am not sure of the status of Cocklaw as a wedding venue, "The > Carterhead" seems to have been a Border Marriage House, similar to those > at Lamberton Toll, Gretna Green etc, and was presumably on the border at > Carter Bar on what is now the A68 road. > > Incidentally, Birdhopecraig registers go back well before 1826. What > happened then was a re-building of an existing chapel. It might be that > its location was changed slightly, as I have a feeling I once heard it had > begun some quarter to half a mile further up the road from where it is > now. It was founded in 1672 and the earliest surviving register dates > from 1728. > > Geoff Nicholson > > > > > > .. > Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any > reply...... Thank you! > > The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at > http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2637/6024 - Release Date: 01/10/13 > Internal Virus Database is out of date. >

Hi, Many thanks for your time and effort. I know both these families: my great-uncle used to stay with the Thomas Hunter you mentioned, think he was a cousin - only later did we discover that he was not related at all. James was his son. A grandson of Thomas' moved to Buckinghamshire and I knew his daughter for many years prior to her death in 2006. The Douglass' you mentioned were children of 'my'Isabella's' younger brother. I have had close contact with the descendants of another brother of Isabella: strangely, both these families have spelled the surname with ss at the end. Most of the ones buried in Horsley were baptised at Otterburn. I have also tracked the other children of Ralph and Isabella, and have the details of all bar one through to demise. So far as pre-1826 services are concerned, I came across documents at the Central Library that mentioned a Presbyterian worship place at the 'back of Woollaw', this being used as far back as the days of Padon preaching in the open. Ralph Hunter had a brother who settled in Falstone where there is a presbyterian church as well as an Anglican one. Your mention of the minister of Flastone reminded me - perhaps there is a link. Again, many thanks - lots more things to try. Melvyn. ----- Original Message ----- From: "gen listlass" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [NMB] Marriage in Redesdale - resources searched at Woodhorn Melvyn I had a look at some resources at Woodhorn yesterday for your Hunters and Douglass's. Re: the missing gravestone for Isabella HUNTER. I looked at the MI's for Holy Trinity, Horsley church transcribed by Phil Thirkell in 1989. There are two Hunter gravestones indexed but neither are for Isabella 1 Number 42 Thomas beloved husband of Anne Elisabeth HUNTER who died 19 May 1932 aged 82 years and the above Anne Elisabeth HUNTER died 7 Sept 1938 aged 86 years “At Rest” 2 Number 80 In memory of Margaret wife of James HUNTER who died at Rochester Feb 18, 1868 aged 45. James HUNTER who died Sept 30th 1899 aged 80 years. Robert their son died Oct 21, 1887 aged 22 years. Elisabeth their daughter died Jul 26, 1889 aged 26John their son who died Feb 15, 1929 aged 72 yearsEleanor Robinson HUNTER who died at Rochester 25 Sept 1937 aged 84 years I also checked for the DOUGLAS family and found only one MI : Number 33 Erected to the memory of Mary DOUGLASS who died at Sills Apr 23 1900 aged 78 years.Also Douglass DOUGLASS who died at Sills Fe 23 1901 aged 59 years.Also John DOUGLASS who died at Sills Feb 20 1904 aged 72 yearsAlso Robert DOUGLASS who died at Sills Dec 30 1912 aged 88 years You possibly already have these OR they are not your family but the place-name "Sills" seems a likely match. DOUGLASS was always spelled with a double "ss" at the end. As for the marriage of Ralph HUNTER and Isabella DOUGLASS:I checked the Crossborder marriage lists (Misc 57) from the Berwick and Kelso newspapers between 1835-1843 but found no marriage for these two reported to the newspapers. I checked the Lamberton Toll marriage between 1839-1841 but nothing. I checked Mordington between the same dates, 3 HUNTER grooms but no Ralph's. However there are more Cross Border Marriage books to check still. When I came home I looked at the 1841 census for Ralph and Isabella and they seem to be living separately He is an "ag lab" and she is a FS = female servant. It doesn't say whether they are married or unmarried but I would guess not as Isabella is down as Isabella DOUGLASS. Therefore with their first child being 8 on the 1851 census, I would have put their marriage between 1841 and 1844-ish, not 1840 unless you have other information. I looked at a baptism book for Birdhopecraig Presbyterian chapel (UR/P6/1/1/1/1) which had a few marriages in the back. Strangely they date from 1835--1903. (1835/6 were surprising for English Presbyterian marriages!) In 1835 there are two marriages at "the Carterhead"In 1836 there are 2 marriages at "Cocklaw"In 1838 there is one marriage at "Carterhead" all these marriages are performed by Geo. McFie minister In 1840 there were 2 marriages performed at "the Scotch church Birdhope Craig" by James ....?mont minister and "in the Scotch church here" by the minister of Falstone Geo. O Moffatt After that date things settle down to regular marriages, although very few, at Birdhopecraig Presb. chapel by a seemingly permanent minister. Although BHC chapel was built in 1826 according to "British Listed Buildings" webpage, it seems as though marriages were performed pre-1837 at other rural locations. The Carterhead and Cocklaw could have been farms, private houses, field chapel meetings or anywhere non-Conformist people worshiped together at that time. I've given this information about BHC at some length to show how sketchy some of the records and the marriages sometimes were. If your people were married at BHC they were not noted in this register. But absence of proof is not proof of absence! This marriage needs further investigation:-) Gen in NBL England > Although I have not come across any hard evidence, since most books I have > read for the area strongly imply no argument between denominations, the > information I have for my Hunter and Douglas families in Redesdale is that > the Douglas family were probably more religious than the Hunter family. > Perhaps the Douglas parents were not too keen on Isabella marrying an > Anglican and so Ralph and Isabella decided to nip over the border and get > married. Their middle child (my great-grandfather) trained at Otterburn > and > then moved to Galashiels to work in the tweed mills before moving further > north. He was appointed a deacon of Ladhope Free Church and later was > awarded for being a Free Kirk Sunday School teacher for 52 years in > total - > his mother's church background was obviously a strong influence in his > early > life. > > Melvyn. .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2637/6024 - Release Date: 01/10/13 Internal Virus Database is out of date.