Hello, I asked this list a while ago about the marriage by banns of Edward FAIRLESS and Mary HARRISON in Allendale on 17 Nov 1750. Hodgson (History of Northumberland vol. IV) claimed Ed was christened in 1738, which would make him a bit young. So I am looking for Ed. The marriage entry says "both of this parish". The only possible baptisms of an Edward that are in the Allendale register are that above in 1738 and Edward son of Wm FAIRLESS of ye Clugh-bank, 3 yr old, on 26 Feb 1719. This is the one claimed to have married Sarah RAVEN. No doubt there is supporting evidence for who the people were in this last marriage. Familysearch.org have no other Edward F christenings in the area from 1690 onwards. I have looked in St John Stanhope and St Peter's Allenheads registers and transcripts. So, what registers in the area are not on familysearch? Where else should I look? I still have to find and view the wills mentioned by Hodgson; that may help. Any thoughts, anyone? Thanks for your help. Regards Graham On 20/04/2013 6:47 p.m., John Ayton wrote: > Hi, I know a few others have an interest in the descendants of Anthony Raven who mostly lived in Upper Weardale and died there in 1753. His daughter Sarah Raven married Edward Fairless in 1749.

"botp", as I'm sure you're aware, doesn't mean Edward was born in the Parish. I had, and still have, the same problem with an Edward Rowell. Allendale has Cumberland to the West , and County Durham to the South. I checked on my family records and found Fairless' from Nenthead and Stanhope. History of Northumberland sometimes throws up more Records than "familysearch" - BMD Records for Corbridge being a good example. Regards, Paul >

Hi Folks a bit late but just want to thank Gen Listlass for that book details which I will try and get soon as it sounds interesting and Fiona for the map details and general info, I'm not good at such things so waiting for my son to pop round and sort it for me. Cheers Fran

Hi Fiona . thanks for this addition for Edward Yes I was aware of the earlier wife Mary Ann Rae. They married DEC 1880 and she was on the 1881 census but died DEC 1881. Then Edward Grives Dunn married Jane Ann Spence MAR 1883 ALl the best many thanks Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 5:00 PM Subject: NORTHUMBRIA Digest, Vol 8, Issue 139 > > > This list is now sent to you from RootsWeb using new software. The default > format has changed but you can opt to receive the digest in a format more > like the previous one. Just contact the list admin at > [email protected] > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Jane Ann Spence (Fiona J Mitford) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 15:02:00 +0100 > From: "Fiona J Mitford" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [NMB] Jane Ann Spence > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > > Hi Ken > > It appears that the first Mrs DUNN probably died a year later: Mary Ann > Dunn, b. 1859 , d. Oct-Nov-Dec 1881 at South Shields. > > Regards, > > Fee > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fiona J Mitford > Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 2:04 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [NMB] Jane Ann Spence > > > Some caution needed, as an Edward Grieves DUNN married Oct-Nov-Dec 1880 at > South Shields; and another recorded in Jan-Feb-Mar 1883 at Tynemouth, > Northumberland [this being Jane Ann SPENCE]. This led to his first wife > being: Mary Ann RAE, as he was living with his wife's family in 1881c: > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the NORTHUMBRIA list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the NORTHUMBRIA mailing list, send an email to > [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of NORTHUMBRIA Digest, Vol 8, Issue 139 > *******************************************

I am in the final stages of completing research into the Rowells of Allendale, and their historical relationship to the North East of England and the Scottish Borders. I have identified that there is a Rowell/Rule isogloss between the Northumbrian Rowells and Scottish Roxburghshire Rules, like the Northumbrian Carrs and Scottish Kerrs, but that it doesn't mean that Rowell and Rule are one and the same ! Happy to share what I've got with Rowell/Rule Researchers, but, be warned, it runs to over 200 pages ! I would be grateful if anyone would check-over my family "ancestors", below, to reassure me I haven't made an error at the first hurdle ! John Joseph Heslop Rowell, born 17th February 1877, at Fawside Green, Allenheads. Fawside Green is a terrace of three houses, dated 1790 and built by Sir Thomas Blackett. They were purpose-built for local mineworkers. This is now a Grade II Listed Building protected by law. Zinc Miner at the time of his Son’s Birth. (Note: there is and was no zinc ore in Allendale, or anywhere within the lead mining district - at least not in commercial amounts.  What he might have been confused with, and hence his recording in the Census Return, was that he could, possibly, have been an employee of the Veille Montagne Zinc Mining Co.  They were definitely installed as the main mining company over the hill at Nenthead (in Cumberland, but not far as the crow flied from Allenheads) and it is possible they had some connection with Allenheads.  By 1903, however, they were more of a general mining company, known as Rio Tinto Zinc today!). Took over a small farm at Wooley Burn Foot, and, finally, to the larger Kipper Lynn Farm, near Whittonstal, Northumberland. Married Mary Hannah Armstrong on the 14th June 1900, at the Primitive Methodist Chapel, Allenheads. Her Father farmed at Middlehope, Allendale. Son of: John Rowell, born 12th April 1847, Low Houses, Allendale. At the time of his marriage his occupation is given as Woodman, and his residence as Allenheads. By 1871 he is recorded as a Lead Miner, living at Fawside Green, Allendale. In 1881 he is still mining, and living at 28, Fawside Green, Allendale, - a tenant of the Allendale, Hexham and Bywell Estates. He married Elizabeth Beck on the 16th May 1868, at the Register Office, District of Hexham. She was living at Allenheads at the time of her marriage; the daughter of a Lead Miner. Son of: Matthew Rowell, believed to have been born 5th November 1804, in the Allendale District. In 1841 he is recorded as a lead miner, living at Craig House (?), Low Houses. In 1851 he is living at Resting Hill, Allendale, a “horse keeper”. At the time of his Son’s Marriage he is recorded as a Woodman. Matthew married an Elizabeth Heslop on the 12th June 1830, at St. Peter’s Chapel, Allenheads. Son of: Matthew Rowell, a Lead Miner, who may have died on the 14th December 1819, at Sparty Lea, Northumberland. Believed to have been born in 1769. He married an Isabella Brown, from the Allendale District, on the 3rd December 1796, in Allendale. Note: There were 4 Matthew Rowell burials at St Peter's, Allenheads, 25th April 1792, 30th January 1804, 14th February 1819, & 27th September 1829, but no ages were given. Son of: Matthew Rowell, a Lead Miner, believed to have been born in 1731 and died in 1804. (See above !) He married a Frances Routledge on the 4th October 1759, in Allendale. Son of: Edward Rowell, a Lead Miner. He married a Hannah Armstrong, on the 4th May 1729, in Allendale. They were both recorded as being of the Parish at the time of their Wedding, but it does not follow that either were born in Allendale. Many thanks, Paul

Paul: I have just a couple of minor comments on what you have written. One is that I doubt whether it is strictly correct that, as you say, the Vieille Montagne Zinc Co (note the correct title and the spelling) is today known as Rio Tinto Zinc. Rio Tinto is huge and has taken over many mining companies in its history and the Vieille Montagne Zinc Co may well (or may well not be - I don't claim to know much about it) be one of them, but if so, that is not quite the same as saying that Vieille Montagne Zinc Co is today "known as" Rio Tinto. The other is that I find it rather suspicious that you quote the address of 28 Fawside Green in 1881. At that time I doubt whether there were 28 separate houses in Fawside Green anyway, but in any case, street numbers were still not entirely universal even in towns, and rural areas such as Allendale were far behind the towns in that respect. I suspect that you are quoting the census address and have confused the schedule number with the street number - a common error. The schedule number is simply that - the order in which the enumerator wrote up the details he had collected from the houses in his district. In theory that should reflect the order in which he visited the houses when on his "round", but even that is not always the case - piles of forms were no doubt dropped on the floor and picked up in a random order on more than one occasion. On an estate map of Allenheads, dated 1861 and used as an illustration in "The History of Lead Mining in the North East of England" by L Turnbull (1975: ISBN 090046331 7), Fawside Green is not mentioned as such but there is a place called Fawside, next to Allenheads, and it looks like just one house - two at the most. Fawside was probably the site of an old lead mine, as there was a "Fawside Level" which played a large part in draining the mines around Allenheads. Here are a couple of quotes from Les Turnbull's book which correct what I may have told you previously. ""In 1882 the London Lead Company sold their interests in the Alston Moor estate to Cameron Swan and Company of Newcastle who subsequently resold it to the Belgian firm, Vieille Montagne Zinc ....." and "The effects of the depression in the lead industry at the end of the nineteenth century were offset by the demands for zinc which was plentiful in the Nenthead area. The Vieille Montagne Zinc Company re-opened many of the old lead mines of the Nent valley and West Allendale for blende and made full use of the underground communications." Note that phrase "and West Allendale". Allenheads is in East Allendale, of course, but that is just a few miles away - a pleasant walk on a summer's day, as I know, but I'd rather not do it on a winter's night! Geoff Nicholson -----Original Message----- From: Paul Redgate <[email protected]> To: NORTHUMBRIA <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, 27 May 2013 14:48 Subject: [NMB] Rowell Grayne, Allendale I am in the final stages of completing research into the Rowells of Allendale, and their historical relationship to the North East of England and the Scottish Borders. I have identified that there is a Rowell/Rule isogloss between the Northumbrian Rowells and Scottish Roxburghshire Rules, like the Northumbrian Carrs and Scottish Kerrs, but that it doesn't mean that Rowell and Rule are one and the same ! Happy to share what I've got with Rowell/Rule Researchers, but, be warned, it runs to over 200 pages ! I would be grateful if anyone would check-over my family "ancestors", below, to reassure me I haven't made an error at the first hurdle ! John Joseph Heslop Rowell, born 17th February 1877, at Fawside Green, Allenheads. Fawside Green is a terrace of three houses, dated 1790 and built by Sir Thomas Blackett. They were purpose-built for local mineworkers. This is now a Grade II Listed Building protected by law. Zinc Miner at the time of his Son’s Birth. (Note: there is and was no zinc ore in Allendale, or anywhere within the lead mining district - at least not in commercial amounts. What he might have been confused with, and hence his recording in the Census Return, was that he could, possibly, have been an employee of the Veille Montagne Zinc Mining Co. They were definitely installed as the main mining company over the hill at Nenthead (in Cumberland, but not far as the crow flied from Allenheads) and it is possible they had some connection with Allenheads. By 1903, however, they were more of a general mining company, known as Rio Tinto Zinc today!). Took over a small farm at Wooley Burn Foot, and, finally, to the larger Kipper Lynn Farm, near Whittonstal, Northumberland. Married Mary Hannah Armstrong on the 14th June 1900, at the Primitive Methodist Chapel, Allenheads. Her Father farmed at Middlehope, Allendale. Son of: John Rowell, born 12th April 1847, Low Houses, Allendale. At the time of his marriage his occupation is given as Woodman, and his residence as Allenheads. By 1871 he is recorded as a Lead Miner, living at Fawside Green, Allendale. In 1881 he is still mining, and living at 28, Fawside Green, Allendale, - a tenant of the Allendale, Hexham and Bywell Estates. He married Elizabeth Beck on the 16th May 1868, at the Register Office, District of Hexham. She was living at Allenheads at the time of her marriage; the daughter of a Lead Miner. Son of: Matthew Rowell, believed to have been born 5th November 1804, in the Allendale District. In 1841 he is recorded as a lead miner, living at Craig House (?), Low Houses. In 1851 he is living at Resting Hill, Allendale, a “horse keeper”. At the time of his Son’s Marriage he is recorded as a Woodman. Matthew married an Elizabeth Heslop on the 12th June 1830, at St. Peter’s Chapel, Allenheads. Son of: Matthew Rowell, a Lead Miner, who may have died on the 14th December 1819, at Sparty Lea, Northumberland. Believed to have been born in 1769. He married an Isabella Brown, from the Allendale District, on the 3rd December 1796, in Allendale. Note: There were 4 Matthew Rowell burials at St Peter's, Allenheads, 25th April 1792, 30th January 1804, 14th February 1819, & 27th September 1829, but no ages were given. Son of: Matthew Rowell, a Lead Miner, believed to have been born in 1731 and died in 1804. (See above !) He married a Frances Routledge on the 4th October 1759, in Allendale. Son of: Edward Rowell, a Lead Miner. He married a Hannah Armstrong, on the 4th May 1729, in Allendale. They were both recorded as being of the Parish at the time of their Wedding, but it does not follow that either were born in Allendale. Many thanks, Paul .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Many thanks to all those who helped me with Jane Ann Spence. especially Fiona and Graham. I found out from poor old Sheila today that her grandmother died in the early 1930's in South Shields. I did find a free bmd death for a Jane A. Dunn MAR 1933 age 69 S. Shields 10a 1015. If this is her ? , she would have been born about 1864 I hope this could be her because she did marry an Edward Grieves Dunn MAR 1883 Tynemouth. EXCEPT she would have born about 1861 ancestry have Edward Grieves Dunn 24 father William ..married Jane Ann Spence 22 father John Oliver Spence 26 March 1883 Tynemouth Can anyone help further. Sheila is really trying find out Jane Ann Spence mothers name. and as you all know there are so many Spence in that area. Thanks for all your help Ken Stanger 1. Spence North Shields (Ken Stanger) 2. Re: Spence North Shields (Fiona J Mitford) 3. Spence North Shields (Graham & Christine Fairless) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 06:57:18 +1000 From: "Ken Stanger" <[email protected]> Subject: [NMB] Spence North Shields To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, I'm trying to help a lady find her Gt. grandmother. She was Jane Ann Spence born about 1860/1861 North Shields daughter of John and Elizabeth Spence. We're trying to find the mothers ( Elizabeth ) maiden name when she married John. We found her father was John Oliver Spence. Can anyone help us find the wife Elizabeth Spence maiden name. Many thanks if anyone can help Regards Ken Stanger > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 00:59:34 +0100 From: "Fiona J Mitford" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [NMB] Spence North Shields To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Ken It's a pity he hadn't used his middle name when marrying ... there's a lot to find about him, however, presuming the marriage was in Northumberland, these are the possibles during 1852-1861: John Spence Jul-Aug-Sep 1843 Tynemouth Northumberland m. Elizabeth BARKER or Elizabeth Esther GRIGS John Spence Jul-Aug-Sep 1852 Tynemouth Northumberland m. Elizabeth DIXON John Spence Jul-Aug-Sep 1854 Tynemouth Northumberland m. Elizabeth ORAM or Elizabeth Baily MOOR John Spence Jan-Feb-Mar 1855 Tynemouth Northumberland m. Elizabeth CHARLTON John Spence Jan-Feb-Mar 1861 Tynemouth Northumberland m. Elizabeth Ann MELVILLE He appears to have been born in 1837? If so, he may have married before he was 21. You will need to check the 'Elizabeths' against the censuses and also against family search to try to eliminate them by YoB, PoB etc. Also check each of the children's' birth entries, are there any surnames used as middle names? Thomas b. 4 Dec 1856 [see https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J3P3-862] seems to be the oldest [per the 1861 census] ... so it is likely to have been earlier than then. Regards, Fee

Hi Ken It appears that the first Mrs DUNN probably died a year later: Mary Ann Dunn, b. 1859 , d. Oct-Nov-Dec 1881 at South Shields. Regards, Fee -----Original Message----- From: Fiona J Mitford Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 2:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NMB] Jane Ann Spence Some caution needed, as an Edward Grieves DUNN married Oct-Nov-Dec 1880 at South Shields; and another recorded in Jan-Feb-Mar 1883 at Tynemouth, Northumberland [this being Jane Ann SPENCE]. This led to his first wife being: Mary Ann RAE, as he was living with his wife's family in 1881c:

William is Edward Grieves DUNN's father. Spouse's Father's Name: John Oliver SPENCE. There was an Edward Grieves Dunn born 1901 [Oct-Nov-Dec] in South Shields, DUR. If you have access to ancestry, EGD left a will proved in 1947, reds: DUNN, Edward Grieves of 105 Cleveland Street, South Shields, died 26 Jan 1947. Probate at Durham 11 March to Edward Grieves DUNN plater and Jane MOFFATT [wife of William Rutter MOFFATT). Effects £2,528 8s 3d. [http://tinyurl.com/qgzrkj2] EGD is listed in 1902 Kelly's Directory at 127 Fort Street, South Shields. [http://tinyurl.com/o3v692l] The 1861 census has the link for where GRIEVES came from: Class: RG 9; Piece: 3794; Folio: 10; Page: 13; GSU roll: 543188 William Dunn 37 b. South Shields; Seaman Jane Dunn 36 b. South Shields Mary Dunn 4 b. South Shields; Scholar Edward Dunn 2 b. South Shields Edward Grieves 46 [Brother-in-law] b. South Shields; Pilot Some caution needed, as an Edward Grieves DUNN married Oct-Nov-Dec 1880 at South Shields; and another recorded in Jan-Feb-Mar 1883 at Tynemouth, Northumberland [this being Jane Ann SPENCE]. This led to his first wife being: Mary Ann RAE, as he was living with his wife's family in 1881c: Class: RG11; Piece: 5020; Folio: 80; Page: 6; GSU roll: 1342209. Elizabeth Atchison Rae 52 Edward Gaines Dunn 22 [Caulker in Ironn Works] Mary Ann Dunn 21 Dorothy Isabella Rae 18 Regards, Fee -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 11:28 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NMB] Jane Ann Spence Hi Ken Going from the 1911 entry showing Janes birthplace as North Shields circa 1861/2 and previous census Plus her marriage England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940 about Edward Grieves Dunn Name: Edward Grieves Dunn Gender: Male Birth Date: abt 1859 Age: 24 Father's Name: William Dunn Spouse's Name: Jane Ann Spence Spouse's Age: 22 Spouse's Father's Name: John Oliver Spence Marriage Date: 26 Mar 1883 Marriage Place: Tynemouth, Northumberland, England Which gives her father as William it leads us onto :- Marriages Sep 1847 Spence William Tynemouth 25 398 STODDART Sarah Margaret Tynemouth 25 398 ----------------- 1851 England Census about William Spence Name: William Spence Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah M Spence Gender: M (Male) Where born: Northld, Cullercoats Civil Parish: North Shields County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Registration District: Tynemouth Sub-registration District: Wallsend ED, institution, or vessel: 2a Neighbors: View others on page Household Schedule Number: 289 Piece: 2409 Folio: 336 Page Number: 56 Household Members: Name Age William Spence 25 Sarah M Spence 23 John S Spence 2 Mary Spence 1 Mo Catherine Manners 16 Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2409; Folio: 336; Page: 56; GSU roll: 87087. --------------------- 1861 England Census about William Spence Name: William Spence Age: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah M Spence Gender: Male Where born: Cullercoates, Northumberland, England Civil Parish: North Shields Town: North Shields County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Registration District: Tynemouth Sub-registration District: North Shields ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household Schedule Number: 158 Piece: 3837 Folio: 37 Page Number: 28 Household Members: Name Age William Spence 35 Sarah M Spence 34 Mary Spence 10 Elizabeth Spence 8 William Spence 6 Sarah M Spence 4 Rebecca Spence 1 Susannah Ingers 17 Mary Ann Scott 17 Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 3837; Folio: 37; Page: 28; GSU roll: 543193. ----------------- The most likely birth is :- Births Mar 1862 SPENCE Jane Ann Tynemouth 10b 137 Obtaining the above would be the safest way of confirming the mothers name ---------------------- 1871 England Census about William Spence Name: William Spence Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah M Spence Gender: Male Where born: Northnd, Cullercoates Civil Parish: Chirton Ecclesiastical parish: Western Town Town: North Shields County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Registration District: Tynemouth Sub-registration District: North Shields ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Household Schedule Number: 381 Piece: 5114 Folio: 36 Page Number: 68 Household Members: Name Age William Spence 45 Sarah M Spence 43 Elizabeth Spence 18 William Spence 16 Sarah M Spence 14 Rebecca Spence 11 Jane A Spence 9 Robert H Spence 6 Amy C Spence 3 Florence Spence 9 Months Sarah Dixon 16 Elizabeth Hume 16 Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 5114; Folio: 36; Page: 68; GSU roll: 847394. --------------- Sarah dies before 1881 where William is a widower Perhaps this is her death reg Deaths Jun 1879 Spence Sarah Margaret 52 Tynemouth 10b 121 ---------------- 1881 England Census about William Spence Name: William Spence Age: 55 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Head Gender: Male Where born: Cullercoats, Northumberland, England Civil Parish: Tynemouth County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Street Address: 29 Northumberland Sq Condition as to marriage: Married Education: Occupation: Grocer Registration District: Tynemouth Sub-registration District: Tynemouth ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 5080 Folio: 4 Page Number: 2 Household Members: Name Age William Spence 55 Elizabeth Spence 28 William Spence 26 Sarah M. Bell 24 Rebecca Spence 21 Jane A. Spence 19 Robert H. Spence 16 Florence E. Spence 10 Joseph H. Bell 2 Eliza Morgan 20 Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 5080; Folio: 4; Page: 2; GSU roll: 1342227. --------------------- William then remarried a Barbara possibly this one Marriages Sep 1882 HACKWORTH Barbara Sarah Newcastle T. 10b 49 Searby Annie Morres Newcastle T. 10b 49 Smith John Cecil Newcastle T. 10b 49 Spence William Newcastle T 10b 49 ---------------------- 1891 England Census about William Spence Name: William Spence Age: 65 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Barbara S Spence Gender: Male Where born: Cullercoates, Northumberland, England Civil Parish: Tynemouth Ecclesiastical parish: Tynemouth Town: North Shields County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Registration District: Tynemouth Sub-registration District: Tynemouth ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 4227 Folio: 128 Page Number: 45 Household Members: Name Age William Spence 65 Barbara S Spence 64 Elizabeth Spence 38 William Spence 36 Rebecca Spence 30 Jane A Spence 28 Robert H Spence 26 Amy C Spence 23 Ellen Johnson 19 Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4227; Folio: 128; Page: 45; GSU Roll: 6099337. ----------------- Probate Calendars 1899 (Ancestry) SPENCE William of 29 Northumberland square North Shields grocer and provision merchant died 22 May 1899 Probate Newcastle upon Tyne 28 Aug to William Spence grocer Effects £1919 15s 5d ----------------- Barbara Sarah is still around in 1911 at 5 Larkspur terrace and appears to pass away in 1916 Probate Calendars 1918 (Ancestry) SPENCE Barbara Sarah of 5 Larkspur terrace Newcastle upon Tyne widow died 6th April 1916 Administration (with will) Newcastle upon Tyne 4 Nov to Charles Ernest Wilson railway official Effects £45 ---------------- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/05/2013 09:23, Ken Stanger wrote: > > > > Many thanks to all those who helped me with Jane Ann Spence. especially > Fiona and Graham. > > I found out from poor old Sheila today that her grandmother died in the > early 1930's in South Shields. > > I did find a free bmd death for a Jane A. Dunn MAR 1933 age 69 S. > Shields > 10a 1015. > > If this is her ? , she would have been born about 1864 > > I hope this could be her because she did marry an Edward Grieves Dunn MAR > 1883 Tynemouth. EXCEPT she would have born about 1861 > > ancestry have Edward Grieves Dunn 24 father William ..married Jane Ann > Spence 22 father John Oliver Spence > 26 March 1883 Tynemouth > > Can anyone help further. > > Sheila is really trying find out Jane Ann Spence mothers name. and as you > all know there are so many Spence in that area. > > Thanks for all your help > > > Ken Stanger .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Many thanks Gen for looking for me.  Jan Sent from Samsung Mobile Gen ListLass <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Jan I was at Woodhorn yesterday and looked up Mohope Methodist baptisms. I checked both films of the original registers.  Woodhorn  - Films M1899 and M576. There were very few baptisms in the book so I checked between 1880-1933 but there were no SWINDLE’s at all. Gen in NBL England > His name is John Wallace SWINDLE, and was born on 11th December 1898.  > If someone does look for me,  could you look at the baptism records for Mohope Methodist Church please.   Mohope is the only Church records I didn't look at.       .. Please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply...... Thank you! The NORTHUMBRIA FAQ page is located at http://www.bpears.org.uk/NorthumbriaFAQ/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ken Going from the 1911 entry showing Janes birthplace as North Shields circa 1861/2 and previous census Plus her marriage England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940 about Edward Grieves Dunn Name: Edward Grieves Dunn Gender: Male Birth Date: abt 1859 Age: 24 Father's Name: William Dunn Spouse's Name: Jane Ann Spence Spouse's Age: 22 Spouse's Father's Name: John Oliver Spence Marriage Date: 26 Mar 1883 Marriage Place: Tynemouth, Northumberland, England Which gives her father as William it leads us onto :- Marriages Sep 1847 Spence William Tynemouth 25 398 STODDART Sarah Margaret Tynemouth 25 398 ----------------- 1851 England Census about William Spence Name: William Spence Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah M Spence Gender: M (Male) Where born: Northld, Cullercoats Civil Parish: North Shields County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Registration District: Tynemouth Sub-registration District: Wallsend ED, institution, or vessel: 2a Neighbors: View others on page Household Schedule Number: 289 Piece: 2409 Folio: 336 Page Number: 56 Household Members: Name Age William Spence 25 Sarah M Spence 23 John S Spence 2 Mary Spence 1 Mo Catherine Manners 16 Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2409; Folio: 336; Page: 56; GSU roll: 87087. --------------------- 1861 England Census about William Spence Name: William Spence Age: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah M Spence Gender: Male Where born: Cullercoates, Northumberland, England Civil Parish: North Shields Town: North Shields County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Registration District: Tynemouth Sub-registration District: North Shields ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household Schedule Number: 158 Piece: 3837 Folio: 37 Page Number: 28 Household Members: Name Age William Spence 35 Sarah M Spence 34 Mary Spence 10 Elizabeth Spence 8 William Spence 6 Sarah M Spence 4 Rebecca Spence 1 Susannah Ingers 17 Mary Ann Scott 17 Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 3837; Folio: 37; Page: 28; GSU roll: 543193. ----------------- The most likely birth is :- Births Mar 1862 SPENCE Jane Ann Tynemouth 10b 137 Obtaining the above would be the safest way of confirming the mothers name ---------------------- 1871 England Census about William Spence Name: William Spence Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah M Spence Gender: Male Where born: Northnd, Cullercoates Civil Parish: Chirton Ecclesiastical parish: Western Town Town: North Shields County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Registration District: Tynemouth Sub-registration District: North Shields ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Household Schedule Number: 381 Piece: 5114 Folio: 36 Page Number: 68 Household Members: Name Age William Spence 45 Sarah M Spence 43 Elizabeth Spence 18 William Spence 16 Sarah M Spence 14 Rebecca Spence 11 Jane A Spence 9 Robert H Spence 6 Amy C Spence 3 Florence Spence 9 Months Sarah Dixon 16 Elizabeth Hume 16 Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 5114; Folio: 36; Page: 68; GSU roll: 847394. --------------- Sarah dies before 1881 where William is a widower Perhaps this is her death reg Deaths Jun 1879 Spence Sarah Margaret 52 Tynemouth 10b 121 ---------------- 1881 England Census about William Spence Name: William Spence Age: 55 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Head Gender: Male Where born: Cullercoats, Northumberland, England Civil Parish: Tynemouth County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Street Address: 29 Northumberland Sq Condition as to marriage: Married Education: Occupation: Grocer Registration District: Tynemouth Sub-registration District: Tynemouth ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 5080 Folio: 4 Page Number: 2 Household Members: Name Age William Spence 55 Elizabeth Spence 28 William Spence 26 Sarah M. Bell 24 Rebecca Spence 21 Jane A. Spence 19 Robert H. Spence 16 Florence E. Spence 10 Joseph H. Bell 2 Eliza Morgan 20 Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 5080; Folio: 4; Page: 2; GSU roll: 1342227. --------------------- William then remarried a Barbara possibly this one Marriages Sep 1882 HACKWORTH Barbara Sarah Newcastle T. 10b 49 Searby Annie Morres Newcastle T. 10b 49 Smith John Cecil Newcastle T. 10b 49 Spence William Newcastle T 10b 49 ---------------------- 1891 England Census about William Spence Name: William Spence Age: 65 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Barbara S Spence Gender: Male Where born: Cullercoates, Northumberland, England Civil Parish: Tynemouth Ecclesiastical parish: Tynemouth Town: North Shields County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Registration District: Tynemouth Sub-registration District: Tynemouth ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 4227 Folio: 128 Page Number: 45 Household Members: Name Age William Spence 65 Barbara S Spence 64 Elizabeth Spence 38 William Spence 36 Rebecca Spence 30 Jane A Spence 28 Robert H Spence 26 Amy C Spence 23 Ellen Johnson 19 Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4227; Folio: 128; Page: 45; GSU Roll: 6099337. ----------------- Probate Calendars 1899 (Ancestry) SPENCE William of 29 Northumberland square North Shields grocer and provision merchant died 22 May 1899 Probate Newcastle upon Tyne 28 Aug to William Spence grocer Effects £1919 15s 5d ----------------- Barbara Sarah is still around in 1911 at 5 Larkspur terrace and appears to pass away in 1916 Probate Calendars 1918 (Ancestry) SPENCE Barbara Sarah of 5 Larkspur terrace Newcastle upon Tyne widow died 6th April 1916 Administration (with will) Newcastle upon Tyne 4 Nov to Charles Ernest Wilson railway official Effects £45 ---------------- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/05/2013 09:23, Ken Stanger wrote: > > > > Many thanks to all those who helped me with Jane Ann Spence. especially > Fiona and Graham. > > I found out from poor old Sheila today that her grandmother died in the > early 1930's in South Shields. > > I did find a free bmd death for a Jane A. Dunn MAR 1933 age 69 S. Shields > 10a 1015. > > If this is her ? , she would have been born about 1864 > > I hope this could be her because she did marry an Edward Grieves Dunn MAR > 1883 Tynemouth. EXCEPT she would have born about 1861 > > ancestry have Edward Grieves Dunn 24 father William ..married Jane Ann > Spence 22 father John Oliver Spence > 26 March 1883 Tynemouth > > Can anyone help further. > > Sheila is really trying find out Jane Ann Spence mothers name. and as you > all know there are so many Spence in that area. > > Thanks for all your help > > > Ken Stanger

Hello Jan I was at Woodhorn yesterday and looked up Mohope Methodist baptisms. I checked both films of the original registers. Woodhorn - Films M1899 and M576. There were very few baptisms in the book so I checked between 1880-1933 but there were no SWINDLE’s at all. Gen in NBL England > His name is John Wallace SWINDLE, and was born on 11th December 1898. > If someone does look for me, could you look at the baptism records for Mohope Methodist Church please. Mohope is the only Church records I didn't look at.

Thanks very much for your reply Nivard. It is a scan of a hand written index and on re-examination, you are right - it is FAIRLEY. The descending "y" went into the ascending "h" or similar on the line below, and is fuzzy as well. Yes, the title was not connected; it was the title of the email I "replied" to for the address. One should pay more attention! Thanks for changing it. Thanks again. Regards Graham On 25/05/2013 7:13 p.m., Nivard Ovington wrote: Hi Graham It means the testator had assets in both England and Scotland Curiously there is no mention of a will or testament on Scotlandspeople OR in the Probate Calendars on Ancestry for an Elizabeth FAIRLESS I would have expected both However there are both entries for FAIRLEY In Scotland GALLOWAY ELIZABETH 06/03/1888 OR FAIRLEY, 32 ROSE STREET, INV ERNESS, WIDOW OF DAVID GALLOWAY, OF 28 GLOVER STREET, PERTH, D. 12/12/1887 AT DENNISTOUN, GLASGOW, TESTATE INVERNESS SHERIFF COURT SC29/44/23 And in England Probate Calendars (Ancestry) 1888 FAIRLEY or GALLOWAY Elizabeth 4 April The Confirmation of the Commissariot of Inverness dated 6 March 1888 of James Robertson as accepting Executor Nominate of Elizabeth Fairley or Galloway of 32 Rose street Inverness Widow who died at Dennistoun Glasgow 12 December 1887. Sealed. Now you might expect a mistake in one and certainly could be in both but seems unusual, are you sure she was definitely a FAIRLESS? All three sources are of course a transcript so errors can creep in to any of them You can download the will/testament on Scotlandspeople for a small fee NB I have taken the liberty of changing the subject line as it does not seem to have any relation to your enquiry Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 25/05/2013 02:36, Graham & Christine Fairless wrote: Hello Everyone, I have come across an entry in 1888 in the Index to the Death Duty Register, which says that Elizth Fairless d. 12 Dec 1887, will proved Inverness 6 Mar 1888 and resealed London Apr 1888. Can anyone tell us what Resealing a will means and the circumstances in which it is done? Thanks very much. Graham in NZ

Hello Everyone, I have come across an entry in 1888 in the Index to the Death Duty Register, which says that Elizth Fairless d. 12 Dec 1887, will proved Inverness 6 Mar 1888 and resealed London Apr 1888. Can anyone tell us what Resealing a will means and the circumstances in which it is done? Thanks very much. Graham in NZ

Hello Ken, Is this the family in 1861? SPENCE, John Head Married M 25 1836 Engine Fitter North Shields, Northumberland SPENCE, Elizabeth Wife Married F 27 1834 Engine Fitters Wife North Shields, Northumberland SPENCE, Thomas Son M 4 1857 North Shields, Northumberland SPENCE, Jane Ann Daughter F 0 (9M) 1861 North Shields, Northumberland SPENCE, Barbery Sister F 13 1848 North Shields, Northumberland Piece: 3837, Folio: 58, Page: 9, Registration District: Tynemouth Civil Parish: North Shields, Municipal Borough: Tynemouth Address: 39, North Street, North Shields, Tynemouth, County: Northumberland Thus see she was born about June 1860. The certificate might give mother's maiden name. These are the marriages of John Spence 1850-57: Q1 1855, either Elizabeth CLARLTON or Margaret RICHARDSON. Tynemouth 10B/229. Q3 1854, either Elizabeth Bailey or Baiely MOOR or Elizabeth ORAM. Tynemouth 10B/238. Q3 1852, either Elizabeth DIXON or Isabella STOKER. Tynemouth 10B/179. Hope this helps. Regards Graham On 25/05/2013 8:57 a.m., Ken Stanger wrote: Hi, I'm trying to help a lady find her Gt. grandmother. She was Jane Ann Spence born about 1860/1861 North Shields daughter of John a nd Elizabeth Spence. We're trying to find the mothers ( Elizabeth ) maiden name when she married Joh n. We found her father was John Oliver Spence. Can anyone help us find the wife Elizabeth Spence maiden name. Many thanks if anyone can help Regards Ken Stanger ..

Hi Graham It means the testator had assets in both England and Scotland Curiously there is no mention of a will or testament on Scotlandspeople OR in the Probate Calendars on Ancestry for an Elizabeth FAIRLESS I would have expected both However there are both entries for FAIRLEY In Scotland GALLOWAY ELIZABETH 06/03/1888 OR FAIRLEY, 32 ROSE STREET, INVERNESS, WIDOW OF DAVID GALLOWAY, OF 28 GLOVER STREET, PERTH, D. 12/12/1887 AT DENNISTOUN, GLASGOW, TESTATE INVERNESS SHERIFF COURT SC29/44/23 And in England Probate Calendars (Ancestry) 1888 FAIRLEY or GALLOWAY Elizabeth 4 April The Confirmation of the Commissariot of Inverness dated 6 March 1888 of James Robertson as accepting Executor Nominate of Elizabeth Fairley or Galloway of 32 Rose street Inverness Widow who died at Dennistoun Glasgow 12 December 1887. Sealed. Now you might expect a mistake in one and certainly could be in both but seems unusual, are you sure she was definitely a FAIRLESS? All three sources are of course a transcript so errors can creep in to any of them You can download the will/testament on Scotlandspeople for a small fee NB I have taken the liberty of changing the subject line as it does not seem to have any relation to your enquiry Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 25/05/2013 02:36, Graham & Christine Fairless wrote: > Hello Everyone, > I have come across an entry in 1888 in the Index to the Death Duty > Register, which says that Elizth Fairless d. 12 Dec 1887, will proved > Inverness 6 Mar 1888 and resealed London Apr 1888. > > Can anyone tell us what Resealing a will means and the circumstances in > which it is done? > > Thanks very much. > > Graham in NZ

Hi, I'm trying to help a lady find her Gt. grandmother. She was Jane Ann Spence born about 1860/1861 North Shields daughter of John and Elizabeth Spence. We're trying to find the mothers ( Elizabeth ) maiden name when she married John. We found her father was John Oliver Spence. Can anyone help us find the wife Elizabeth Spence maiden name. Many thanks if anyone can help Regards Ken Stanger

Hi Ken It's a pity he hadn't used his middle name when marrying ... there's a lot to find about him, however, presuming the marriage was in Northumberland, these are the possibles during 1852-1861: John Spence Jul-Aug-Sep 1843 Tynemouth Northumberland m. Elizabeth BARKER or Elizabeth Esther GRIGS John Spence Jul-Aug-Sep 1852 Tynemouth Northumberland m. Elizabeth DIXON John Spence Jul-Aug-Sep 1854 Tynemouth Northumberland m. Elizabeth ORAM or Elizabeth Baily MOOR John Spence Jan-Feb-Mar 1855 Tynemouth Northumberland m. Elizabeth CHARLTON John Spence Jan-Feb-Mar 1861 Tynemouth Northumberland m. Elizabeth Ann MELVILLE He appears to have been born in 1837? If so, he may have married before he was 21. You will need to check the 'Elizabeths' against the censuses and also against family search to try to eliminate them by YoB, PoB etc. Also check each of the children's' birth entries, are there any surnames used as middle names? Thomas b. 4 Dec 1856 [see https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J3P3-862] seems to be the oldest [per the 1861 census] ... so it is likely to have been earlier than then. Regards, Fee -----Original Message----- From: Ken Stanger Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 9:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [NMB] Spence North Shields Hi, I'm trying to help a lady find her Gt. grandmother. She was Jane Ann Spence born about 1860/1861 North Shields daughter of John and Elizabeth Spence. Can anyone help us find the wife Elizabeth Spence maiden name.

There are several family trees posted on Ancestry which show an entry which looks like what you are looking for - they give the surname 'Charlton'.  Here is an example: Name: Jane Ann SpenceBirth: Mar 1862 - Northumberland, EnglandDeath: 22 Jul 1937 - South Shields, Durham, EnglandMarriage: 28 May 1895 - North Shields, Northumberland, EnglandParents: John Oliver Spence, Elizabeth CharltonSpouse: William Henry Reah Does the spouse name fit what you know? --- On Fri, 24/5/13, Ken Stanger <[email protected]> wrote:She was Jane Ann Spence born about 1860/1861 North Shields   daughter of John and Elizabeth Spence. We're trying to find the mothers ( Elizabeth ) maiden name when she married John. We found her  father was John Oliver Spence. Can anyone help us find the wife Elizabeth Spence maiden name. Many thanks if anyone can help.

Local author Bridget Gubbins has written a book called "The Curious Yards and Alleyways of Morpeth". She lives in one of the yards herself so knows them first hand. ISBN-10: 0956868304ISBN-13: 978-0956868305 Gen in NBL England > my grandmother lived at a place called 'Jacksons Yard' in Morpeth in 1910 > anyone know if it still exists? > Fran