Thank you Linda for a wonderful description of the subject. We are so fortunate to have people like you give us history in depth. Maureen H linda Merle wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > To paraphrase the Introduction to the County of Derry in Place-Names of > Northern Ireland, Vol 5, County Derry 1: The Moyola Vallley (Gregory Toner, > Institute of Irish Studies, University of Queen's, 1996), In January, 1610, > the London Companies agree to lay out a plantation of the county of > Coleraine as well as a bit of Donegal, some land on the Antrim side of > the Bann at Coleraine and the barony of Loughinsholin, which had been > in Tyrone. They got the formal grant three years later. Then they formed > the county of Londonderry. In the charter, they renamed Derry to > Londonderry (the city) and it is from the city's name that the county > took its name, in the fashion of the time. > > However Derry was retained by the main churches. London is from Celtic > origin. It was Lugudunum "Lug's Fort". Lug has parallels with Lugh > Lumhfhada (Lugh of the silver hand). > > This name change has always been a political issue. Probably less so in > the past than today. Also in the past until about 1800 many Presbyterians > in Ulster (there was no "Northern Ireland" then) had no rights of religious > freedom and were excluded from holding office. They were not too fond of > the word "London". Hence my ancestors, Presbyterians with both Irish > and Scottish surnames, who moved to the new world in the 1700's, > didn't call it "Londonderry". They called it "Derry". If you view a map of > the Scotch Irish homelands in the USA -- say Pennsylvania -- you will > find lots of Derrys and not very many Londonderrys. The early 1718 > Bann settlers who went to New England, on the other had , many were > "Defenders of Derry" who had fought in 1690. They were fonder of the > word "Londonderry". It underscored their victory. If you research early > Orange banners in Ulster you also find use of the word "Derry". > > So the politicalization of the name is rather recent. A man named > John Scott is most likely Protestant. That's all it means. What should > be your friend's concern is whether the city of or the county of is meant. > "Stroke County" (a reference to the politically correct form: > "London/Derry" is a dang big place to be looking for a guy named > John Scott in. I'd be focussing on a clue to the exact location. > > The important part of what you said (ie the thing that gives some hope > that she can find him) is that he was a Baptist. There were not a lot of > Baptists in Ireland in the 1700's. There were a lot at the time of the > English Commonwealth (1650's and 60's). They were among the "Independents" > > like the Puritans (Congregationalists) and Quakers, etc, etc. These > people were one set of extremists. You had the high church Anglicans > who morphed into Roman Catholics, who wanted bishops -- which is > rule from the top. Ie the king and/or his archbishops decided what the > sermon (10 minutes) would be on Sunday. Everyone had to go. They > took roll and fined you if you skipped. You were duly brainwashed > on Sunday along with every else. You had your English Presbyterians, > who wanted the ministers and elders to elect representatives to a synod or to parliament.A form of theocracy practiced (at the 15.000 foot level) in Geneva. They would have oppressed the ungodly (in their opinion) and those with a > high church or Roman Catholic leaning. We have just emerged from the > Cold War era. Some of us recall the fear which we had of an invasion > from the USSR. The USSR of their day was the Spanish and it did > come to pass with the Spanish Armada that they would try to invade > England and persecute Protestants. It wasn't an ungrounded fantasy. > > To the left you had an assortment of sects called Independents. They > felt it was a matter of conscience and didn't want to enforce any particular > form of religion (while beleiving theirs was the only correct one, much like > ourselves). They also invented Communism (The Diggers). They were > an amazing lot. However they were too creative for Cromwell, who needed > to enforce a compromise. So he sent off as many of them to Ireland, no > doubt hoping the Irish would finish off a few (they did). So Ireland, during the > Commonwealth, was "blessed" with many Protestant extremists who in > particular hated Roman Catholics. > > After the Commonwealth, when Charles as invited back to England to rule > the three kingdoms, the high church was in along with bishops. The > Independents were persecuted in England, where tolerance of English > Catholics improved. Unlike the IRish, they didn't threaten the national > security-- and it was feared an army of Irish Catholics who could invade > England -- did. In Ireland, the Church of Ireland had been run by the > Independents (Baptists). They kept no baptismal records during the > Commonwealth, for instance. Now they were out. Many fled to the > New World. Others, settled in the Irish countryside, just kept attending > the local parish church, where of course the personnel changed and the > service. They became --or remained --Established Church. The Baptists > hadn't set up a system outside of the Church of Ireland, so they > faded away. Many English or their sons married Irish women and adopted > Catholicism too. Today their descendents perceive of themselves as > Irish. > > So your John Scott is a most amazing man -- he remained committed > to Anabaptism. Or perhaps he was new to it. The Anabaptists of the > continent were among the most hated and persecuted people. They > were persecuted by Lutherans and other protestant groups because they > maintained a belief in freedom of religion and separation of church and state, > which threatened the medieval basis of every state in Europe. The Swiss > imprisoned a lot of them. The Dutch Gov offered to send them to the new > world if they were sent down the river to Holland. Many died on the trip. > They were in such horrible condition the Dutch let them off the boats, > and many were absorbed by the Dutch Mennonites. The rest came > to Pennsylvania. Just one Anabaptist horror story. > > If your friend goes to a library and reads the chapter on Baptist records > in Falley "Irish and Scotch IRish Family Research" (a two volume $75.00 > book), she'll find out where to find Baptist records. The book is FULL > of history and is well worth a read from front to back. > > Derry Cathedral or Tobermore has very old records from before the > Commonwealth period. These have been published. Check them -- the > professionals say, check them no matter what you think your ancestors' > religion was. You find many, many O' names among the records. Trouble > with Baptists is they didn't baptize though. Falley will help locate the > Baptist records in Ireland. The Irish independents left earlier than the > Presbyterians. The Irish Quakers largely evacuated in 1706 (or 8...), > anyhow, a decade before the emigrations of Irish Presbyterians BEGAN. > > Best wishes, > > Linda Merle