Hi Roger and fellow Listers! Thought I would send these two resource sites to the list; I believe I sent them a few months ago, but probably OK to sent them along again. On them there are three people that I can find doing lookups re: Griffiths. There are other resources here also. These sites are definitely worth a perusal. One of these kind people helped me out with Griffiths Lookups and was GREAT about it. http://www.pnx.com/unicorn/sites/lookups.htm At this site, go to Genealogy CD list >#188 on the list = 2 people willing to do lookups also http://www.genexchange.com/lSearch.CFM Here, go to Lookups > Ireland = more lookup help Hope this is of some use! Regards, Amy

I am not one of the people listed below, but I would be more than willing to do lookups. I might as well get my monies worth out of it and, honestly, I would be more than willing to help some one out with their research. You can email me personally at [email protected] Thanks, Katie Sunny Florida In a message dated 5/3/99 11:54:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << On them there are three people that I can find doing lookups re: Griffiths. There are other resources here also. These sites are definitely worth a perusal. One of these kind people helped me out with Griffiths Lookups and was GREAT about it. http://www.pnx.com/unicorn/sites/lookups.htm >>

http://genweb.net/~gen-cds/cdlist.html There are two researchers at CD 188 - Index to Griffith's Valuation of Ireland . -----Original Message----- From: Timms, Roger (JUS) [SMTP:[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, May 02, 1999 11:47 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Griffiths Evaluations On either this list on the Ireland list, there was a gentleman who doing lookups for names by counties. He did three names for me: Kennedy, Robinson and Allely. The information was lost when my computer was stolen. Does anyone know the name and email address of the person who was doing the lookups? Thanks, Roger Timms Port Perry, Ontario, Candad

Evening all I need to order a film from LDS, so I can look for a birth / christening / baptism in Dublin, Co Dublin - 3 December 1830, as I don't know the parish/townland etc - what film do I need to order. Also I have a question or two that need an answer. Are they filmed parish by parish? / year by year? / how? all advice, help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated thanks Jenny West Aust

On either this list on the Ireland list, there was a gentleman who doing lookups for names by counties. He did three names for me: Kennedy, Robinson and Allely. The information was lost when my computer was stolen. Does anyone know the name and email address of the person who was doing the lookups? Thanks, Roger Timms Port Perry, Ontario, Candad

Hello to you all, I am trying to find information on my Great grandfather, Patrick Dinenn, (Dennen,Dennin) born in County Antrim, Ireland about 1824. His father was Sylvester born about 1805 and mother was Catharine. Not much data, but I keep looking, sure would love to hear from you. Thanks a million Vincent Dennen [email protected]

I have been told that there was a family of AUSTINs in the village of Tandagree (sp?) in Armagh. Does anyone have any info on this family, or any contacts in this community that I could correspond with? A quick search on the net has not turned up much for this village. Thanks, Andrew M. Austin

Hello All, I have recently found the name of a person I may be related to on a 1796 Flax growers list in County Tyrone. His name is William Hays. He was born in Ireland in about 1776. He married and had a son David who was born in about 1797. I believe William and David Hays left Ireland in about 1817 or 1818. In America they lived in Clifton Park in Saratoga County, NY. They are both listed in the 1820 Federal Census. They were also members of the Baptist church. David, is described as an Irish linen weaver in the family history of the family one of his daughter's married into. The family moved to Broadalbin, Fulton County, NY in about 1842. The 1845 NY State census indicates that he made 60 yards of linen cloth during that year. William and possibly other family members remained in Saratoga County. Richard Hayes [email protected]

Help! Can anyone tell me the proper zip code for Ballymena, Antrim, NI? Send answer to cdfemma @msn.com. Thanks so much. Carole Kopser : <

>>John I can't help you with the McMenamin/Gallaher line but did notice your mention of Sarah Orr. The sister,Ann Mekim(daughter of Ann Bryce and ? Mekim, of my Derry ancestor Alexander Mekim(now Machum), was married to a John Orr sometime around 1820, and they emigrated to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania shortly afterward. However, a Joseph Orr lived in the Townland of Edinmore, Balteagh in 1829. He may or may not have been a relative of John's but the district corresponds with our information on Alexander and his wife Margaret Carson, daughter of James Carson, Masterweaver, Newtown Limivady and Martha Worden. A look in this area of Derry for Sarah Orr may turn up something more. Good Luck! Margaret Dawn Tapscott wrote: > > - > > >John > >I have a Margaret Gallagher born early 1800s married to a Francis Moore in > >Derry. I've just purchased a > >marriage certificate that gave Derry as the birth place of their daughter > (Catherine) in > >1850. Haven't got much to go on. Catherine Moore married Joseph Maddock > also > >from Letterkenny/Donegal but living in Derry. They married in Australia. > >A long shot as there are a lot of Gallaghers in that region. > >Regards - Dawn > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: john p mcmenamin <[email protected]> > >To: [email protected] > ><[email protected]> > >Date: Sunday, 7 February 1999 7:24 AM > >Subject: MCMENAMIN/GALLAGHER > > > > > >>My G-grandfather, James McMenamin, born 4/6/1858 in Strabane, Tyrone, > >>IRE. He married Bridget Gallagher, born 7/20/1866 in Dunfanaghy, Donegal, > >>IRE, on 4/16/1888 in NY,NY. They had 4 kids in California. > >>Is anyone else working on my MCMENAMIN/GALLAGHER line? JOHN(NAPA,CA) > >> > >>___________________________________________________________________ > >>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > >>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > >>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >> > >

I found a couple of birth and marriage listings that may refer to my ancestors. However; I cannot locate the places mentioned. I would appreciate any help in finding the following locations. Drumcaw, County Down Ballymeglaugh, County Down Knockstickin, County Down Thanks in advance Mike Kennedy

Hello to everyone in N.Ireland, Trying desperately to find info on my grandmother, Mary Alice Keelkevene born, I understand, in Northern Ireland on May 2, 1864. No other information so it's kinda looking for a needle in a haystack but surely would love hearing from you!!! Thanks Mary

- >John >I have a Margaret Gallagher born early 1800s married to a Francis Moore in >Derry. I've just purchased a >marriage certificate that gave Derry as the birth place of their daughter (Catherine) in >1850. Haven't got much to go on. Catherine Moore married Joseph Maddock also >from Letterkenny/Donegal but living in Derry. They married in Australia. >A long shot as there are a lot of Gallaghers in that region. >Regards - Dawn > >-----Original Message----- >From: john p mcmenamin <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] ><[email protected]> >Date: Sunday, 7 February 1999 7:24 AM >Subject: MCMENAMIN/GALLAGHER > > >>My G-grandfather, James McMenamin, born 4/6/1858 in Strabane, Tyrone, >>IRE. He married Bridget Gallagher, born 7/20/1866 in Dunfanaghy, Donegal, >>IRE, on 4/16/1888 in NY,NY. They had 4 kids in California. >>Is anyone else working on my MCMENAMIN/GALLAGHER line? JOHN(NAPA,CA) >> >>___________________________________________________________________ >>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >> >

In a message dated 99-04-30 11:23:58 EDT, [email protected] writes: << Derry Cathedral or Tobermore has very old records from before the Commonwealth period. These have been published. Check them -- the professionals say, check them no matter what you think your ancestors' religion was. >> Linda - Are the Derry Cathedral Records readily available? JP

Thank you Linda for a wonderful description of the subject. We are so fortunate to have people like you give us history in depth. Maureen H linda Merle wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > To paraphrase the Introduction to the County of Derry in Place-Names of > Northern Ireland, Vol 5, County Derry 1: The Moyola Vallley (Gregory Toner, > Institute of Irish Studies, University of Queen's, 1996), In January, 1610, > the London Companies agree to lay out a plantation of the county of > Coleraine as well as a bit of Donegal, some land on the Antrim side of > the Bann at Coleraine and the barony of Loughinsholin, which had been > in Tyrone. They got the formal grant three years later. Then they formed > the county of Londonderry. In the charter, they renamed Derry to > Londonderry (the city) and it is from the city's name that the county > took its name, in the fashion of the time. > > However Derry was retained by the main churches. London is from Celtic > origin. It was Lugudunum "Lug's Fort". Lug has parallels with Lugh > Lumhfhada (Lugh of the silver hand). > > This name change has always been a political issue. Probably less so in > the past than today. Also in the past until about 1800 many Presbyterians > in Ulster (there was no "Northern Ireland" then) had no rights of religious > freedom and were excluded from holding office. They were not too fond of > the word "London". Hence my ancestors, Presbyterians with both Irish > and Scottish surnames, who moved to the new world in the 1700's, > didn't call it "Londonderry". They called it "Derry". If you view a map of > the Scotch Irish homelands in the USA -- say Pennsylvania -- you will > find lots of Derrys and not very many Londonderrys. The early 1718 > Bann settlers who went to New England, on the other had , many were > "Defenders of Derry" who had fought in 1690. They were fonder of the > word "Londonderry". It underscored their victory. If you research early > Orange banners in Ulster you also find use of the word "Derry". > > So the politicalization of the name is rather recent. A man named > John Scott is most likely Protestant. That's all it means. What should > be your friend's concern is whether the city of or the county of is meant. > "Stroke County" (a reference to the politically correct form: > "London/Derry" is a dang big place to be looking for a guy named > John Scott in. I'd be focussing on a clue to the exact location. > > The important part of what you said (ie the thing that gives some hope > that she can find him) is that he was a Baptist. There were not a lot of > Baptists in Ireland in the 1700's. There were a lot at the time of the > English Commonwealth (1650's and 60's). They were among the "Independents" > > like the Puritans (Congregationalists) and Quakers, etc, etc. These > people were one set of extremists. You had the high church Anglicans > who morphed into Roman Catholics, who wanted bishops -- which is > rule from the top. Ie the king and/or his archbishops decided what the > sermon (10 minutes) would be on Sunday. Everyone had to go. They > took roll and fined you if you skipped. You were duly brainwashed > on Sunday along with every else. You had your English Presbyterians, > who wanted the ministers and elders to elect representatives to a synod or to parliament.A form of theocracy practiced (at the 15.000 foot level) in Geneva. They would have oppressed the ungodly (in their opinion) and those with a > high church or Roman Catholic leaning. We have just emerged from the > Cold War era. Some of us recall the fear which we had of an invasion > from the USSR. The USSR of their day was the Spanish and it did > come to pass with the Spanish Armada that they would try to invade > England and persecute Protestants. It wasn't an ungrounded fantasy. > > To the left you had an assortment of sects called Independents. They > felt it was a matter of conscience and didn't want to enforce any particular > form of religion (while beleiving theirs was the only correct one, much like > ourselves). They also invented Communism (The Diggers). They were > an amazing lot. However they were too creative for Cromwell, who needed > to enforce a compromise. So he sent off as many of them to Ireland, no > doubt hoping the Irish would finish off a few (they did). So Ireland, during the > Commonwealth, was "blessed" with many Protestant extremists who in > particular hated Roman Catholics. > > After the Commonwealth, when Charles as invited back to England to rule > the three kingdoms, the high church was in along with bishops. The > Independents were persecuted in England, where tolerance of English > Catholics improved. Unlike the IRish, they didn't threaten the national > security-- and it was feared an army of Irish Catholics who could invade > England -- did. In Ireland, the Church of Ireland had been run by the > Independents (Baptists). They kept no baptismal records during the > Commonwealth, for instance. Now they were out. Many fled to the > New World. Others, settled in the Irish countryside, just kept attending > the local parish church, where of course the personnel changed and the > service. They became --or remained --Established Church. The Baptists > hadn't set up a system outside of the Church of Ireland, so they > faded away. Many English or their sons married Irish women and adopted > Catholicism too. Today their descendents perceive of themselves as > Irish. > > So your John Scott is a most amazing man -- he remained committed > to Anabaptism. Or perhaps he was new to it. The Anabaptists of the > continent were among the most hated and persecuted people. They > were persecuted by Lutherans and other protestant groups because they > maintained a belief in freedom of religion and separation of church and state, > which threatened the medieval basis of every state in Europe. The Swiss > imprisoned a lot of them. The Dutch Gov offered to send them to the new > world if they were sent down the river to Holland. Many died on the trip. > They were in such horrible condition the Dutch let them off the boats, > and many were absorbed by the Dutch Mennonites. The rest came > to Pennsylvania. Just one Anabaptist horror story. > > If your friend goes to a library and reads the chapter on Baptist records > in Falley "Irish and Scotch IRish Family Research" (a two volume $75.00 > book), she'll find out where to find Baptist records. The book is FULL > of history and is well worth a read from front to back. > > Derry Cathedral or Tobermore has very old records from before the > Commonwealth period. These have been published. Check them -- the > professionals say, check them no matter what you think your ancestors' > religion was. You find many, many O' names among the records. Trouble > with Baptists is they didn't baptize though. Falley will help locate the > Baptist records in Ireland. The Irish independents left earlier than the > Presbyterians. The Irish Quakers largely evacuated in 1706 (or 8...), > anyhow, a decade before the emigrations of Irish Presbyterians BEGAN. > > Best wishes, > > Linda Merle

Surnames McMENAMIN and GALLAGHER turn up in the records of the RC parish of Carn, which includes the civil parish of Templecarn in Donegal and Fermanagh (possibly other areas; I'm not sure). These records have been filmed by LDS. They are difficult to read, but cover baptisms 1851-1877. -- Margaret Jenkins E-mail: [email protected] OR [email protected]

Hi All Seeking any siblings of Joseph McCullough or Mary Bell. What I have is as follows - I would love to know more about them. Joseph McCULLOUGH (parents: John McCULLOUGH & Margaret?) b. 1803/6 Dundalk, County Louth, Ireland m. 11. 3. 1827 ????, Ireland Mary BELL (parents: John BELL & Ursula?) b. 1803/6 Belfast, County Antrim Ireland John McCullough b. 1828 ???? Joseph McCULLOUGH b. 3. 12. 1830, Dublin, Co Dublin, Ireland Ursula McCullough b. 7. 4. 1832 Ballymoyer, Co Armagh, Ireland m. 1853 - John DOUGAN David McCullough b. 22. 5. 1834 Hamilton, Co Down, Ireland Francis McCullough b. 6. 11. 1836 Clonallan, Co Armagh, Ireland m. 1852 - Sarah J. McCULLEN James McCullough b. 1845 Ballymyre, Co Armagh, Ireland According to ship passenger lists when Joseph left Ireland for NSW, Aust., in 1849 the family was living in Ballymyre, Co Armagh, Ireland, and when David left Ireland for NSW, Aust., the family was living in Hamilton, Co Down, Ireland Thanks Jenny West Aust

Hi Bill, To paraphrase the Introduction to the County of Derry in Place-Names of Northern Ireland, Vol 5, County Derry 1: The Moyola Vallley (Gregory Toner, Institute of Irish Studies, University of Queen's, 1996), In January, 1610, the London Companies agree to lay out a plantation of the county of Coleraine as well as a bit of Donegal, some land on the Antrim side of the Bann at Coleraine and the barony of Loughinsholin, which had been in Tyrone. They got the formal grant three years later. Then they formed the county of Londonderry. In the charter, they renamed Derry to Londonderry (the city) and it is from the city's name that the county took its name, in the fashion of the time. However Derry was retained by the main churches. London is from Celtic origin. It was Lugudunum "Lug's Fort". Lug has parallels with Lugh Lumhfhada (Lugh of the silver hand). This name change has always been a political issue. Probably less so in the past than today. Also in the past until about 1800 many Presbyterians in Ulster (there was no "Northern Ireland" then) had no rights of religious freedom and were excluded from holding office. They were not too fond of the word "London". Hence my ancestors, Presbyterians with both Irish and Scottish surnames, who moved to the new world in the 1700's, didn't call it "Londonderry". They called it "Derry". If you view a map of the Scotch Irish homelands in the USA -- say Pennsylvania -- you will find lots of Derrys and not very many Londonderrys. The early 1718 Bann settlers who went to New England, on the other had , many were "Defenders of Derry" who had fought in 1690. They were fonder of the word "Londonderry". It underscored their victory. If you research early Orange banners in Ulster you also find use of the word "Derry". So the politicalization of the name is rather recent. A man named John Scott is most likely Protestant. That's all it means. What should be your friend's concern is whether the city of or the county of is meant. "Stroke County" (a reference to the politically correct form: "London/Derry" is a dang big place to be looking for a guy named John Scott in. I'd be focussing on a clue to the exact location. The important part of what you said (ie the thing that gives some hope that she can find him) is that he was a Baptist. There were not a lot of Baptists in Ireland in the 1700's. There were a lot at the time of the English Commonwealth (1650's and 60's). They were among the "Independents" like the Puritans (Congregationalists) and Quakers, etc, etc. These people were one set of extremists. You had the high church Anglicans who morphed into Roman Catholics, who wanted bishops -- which is rule from the top. Ie the king and/or his archbishops decided what the sermon (10 minutes) would be on Sunday. Everyone had to go. They took roll and fined you if you skipped. You were duly brainwashed on Sunday along with every else. You had your English Presbyterians, who wanted the ministers and elders to elect representatives to a synod or to parliament.A form of theocracy practiced (at the 15.000 foot level) in Geneva. They would have oppressed the ungodly (in their opinion) and those with a high church or Roman Catholic leaning. We have just emerged from the Cold War era. Some of us recall the fear which we had of an invasion from the USSR. The USSR of their day was the Spanish and it did come to pass with the Spanish Armada that they would try to invade England and persecute Protestants. It wasn't an ungrounded fantasy. To the left you had an assortment of sects called Independents. They felt it was a matter of conscience and didn't want to enforce any particular form of religion (while beleiving theirs was the only correct one, much like ourselves). They also invented Communism (The Diggers). They were an amazing lot. However they were too creative for Cromwell, who needed to enforce a compromise. So he sent off as many of them to Ireland, no doubt hoping the Irish would finish off a few (they did). So Ireland, during the Commonwealth, was "blessed" with many Protestant extremists who in particular hated Roman Catholics. After the Commonwealth, when Charles as invited back to England to rule the three kingdoms, the high church was in along with bishops. The Independents were persecuted in England, where tolerance of English Catholics improved. Unlike the IRish, they didn't threaten the national security-- and it was feared an army of Irish Catholics who could invade England -- did. In Ireland, the Church of Ireland had been run by the Independents (Baptists). They kept no baptismal records during the Commonwealth, for instance. Now they were out. Many fled to the New World. Others, settled in the Irish countryside, just kept attending the local parish church, where of course the personnel changed and the service. They became --or remained --Established Church. The Baptists hadn't set up a system outside of the Church of Ireland, so they faded away. Many English or their sons married Irish women and adopted Catholicism too. Today their descendents perceive of themselves as Irish. So your John Scott is a most amazing man -- he remained committed to Anabaptism. Or perhaps he was new to it. The Anabaptists of the continent were among the most hated and persecuted people. They were persecuted by Lutherans and other protestant groups because they maintained a belief in freedom of religion and separation of church and state, which threatened the medieval basis of every state in Europe. The Swiss imprisoned a lot of them. The Dutch Gov offered to send them to the new world if they were sent down the river to Holland. Many died on the trip. They were in such horrible condition the Dutch let them off the boats, and many were absorbed by the Dutch Mennonites. The rest came to Pennsylvania. Just one Anabaptist horror story. If your friend goes to a library and reads the chapter on Baptist records in Falley "Irish and Scotch IRish Family Research" (a two volume $75.00 book), she'll find out where to find Baptist records. The book is FULL of history and is well worth a read from front to back. Derry Cathedral or Tobermore has very old records from before the Commonwealth period. These have been published. Check them -- the professionals say, check them no matter what you think your ancestors' religion was. You find many, many O' names among the records. Trouble with Baptists is they didn't baptize though. Falley will help locate the Baptist records in Ireland. The Irish independents left earlier than the Presbyterians. The Irish Quakers largely evacuated in 1706 (or 8...), anyhow, a decade before the emigrations of Irish Presbyterians BEGAN. Best wishes, Linda Merle

This topic comes up from time to time on Irish Lists and has to be looked at in the historical context, monentarily putting aside the 'cultural minefield' into which you also may step! In his scheme for the Plantation of Ulster, King James I granted more than half a million acres of land in the north-west of Ulster to the Livery Companies of the City of London. These Companies were descended from the medieval guilds and were involved in all aspects of trade. The town of Derry was included and there was a 'carving up' of various tracts of land, leading to the formation of the County of Donegal and increasing the size of what was then Co. Coleraine. The 'bit' in between was named Co. Londonderry and by an agreement made in 1610, the supervision came under the auspices of The Honourable, The Irish Society. I couldn't actually locate a specific date when Derry became officially the City of Londonderry but over the centuries there has developed a culture whereby those of a Nationalist persusion would refer to it as Derry and the Loyalists would insist on Londonderry. So the way in which you refer to the 'Maiden City' has become another indicator for to identify your political leanings. It's not as 'cut and dried' as it may appear though. Is anything in Ireland? For example, amongst the Loyal Orders there are 'The Apprentice Boys of Derry' and the City of Derry Airport which is located at Eglinton in Co. Londonderry. People can get quite passionate as to which name to use and, inevitably, these attitudes came to be lampooned by one of the local media personalities, Gerry Anderson. He coined the phrase 'stroke city' as in Derry/Londonderry and this has entered the vocabulary. Gerry is a native of the 'Maiden City' which is so called, I understand, because it was never breached during the great siege in 1689! If anyone reading this is over in 'Norn Iron' you should listen to the Gerry Anderson show on Radio Ulster every weekday from 10.30am to 12 noon. It's a real whacky and at times, completely off-the-wall programme and gives a great insight into what makes people 'tick' over here. My wife and I found it great 'crack' when we first moved over here, but then we have a wierd sense of humour!! Yours aye Robert C Davison Hon. Secretary Clan Davidson Association (UK) Visit us at <http://www.phdavison.com/clandavidson

John I have a Margaret Gallagher born early 1800s married to a Francis Moore in Derry. I hope I haven't sent this before to you - I've just purchased a marriage certificate that gave Derry as the birth place of their daughter in 1850. Haven't got much to go on. Catherine Moore married Joseph Maddock also from Letterkenny/Donegal but living in Derry. They married in Australia. A long shot as there are a lot of Gallaghers in that region. Regards - Dawn -----Original Message----- From: john p mcmenamin <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, 7 February 1999 7:24 AM Subject: MCMENAMIN/GALLAGHER >My G-grandfather, James McMenamin, born 4/6/1858 in Strabane, Tyrone, >IRE. He married Bridget Gallagher, born 7/20/1866 in Dunfanaghy, Donegal, >IRE, on 4/16/1888 in NY,NY. They had 4 kids in California. >Is anyone else working on my MCMENAMIN/GALLAGHER line? JOHN(NAPA,CA) > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >