Thanks to you, too, Maggie. Glenda

Thanks for this Glenda, Maggie

--part1_6f.1105f8db.27b9182e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Morning all, This came up on a list I have just joined.....I have said I think it is a dry river bed in India or Africa and also I seem to remember a song about driving by the waddy....possibly Mississipi or the Everglades in Florida. I am sure that there are plenty of people on Northern who can give me, and / or the lady enquiring, the correct answer. I have told her I am forwarding her mail to you. Maggie In a very dull, soggy but mild Essex --part1_6f.1105f8db.27b9182e_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <BACKTOTHEPAST-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-ye04.mx.aol.com (rly-ye04.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.201]) by air-ye01.mail.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:08:44 -0500 Received: from lists5.rootsweb.com (lists5.rootsweb.com [63.92.80.123]) by rly-ye04.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:08:07 -0500 Received: (from slist@localhost) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f1C47Vb06206; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:07:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:07:31 -0800 X-Original-Sender: shirlgar@fnbnet.net Sun Feb 11 20:07:31 2001 Message-ID: <004201c094ba$78345f60$b300f2d0@shirlgar> From: "Shirley Garcia" <shirlgar@fnbnet.net> Old-To: <BACKTOTHEPAST-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 22:10:12 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Subject: [BackToThePast] Waddy Resent-Message-ID: <S0lixC.A.xgB.DG2h6@lists5.rootsweb.com> To: BACKTOTHEPAST-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: BACKTOTHEPAST-L@rootsweb.com Reply-To: BACKTOTHEPAST-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <BACKTOTHEPAST-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/443 X-Loop: BACKTOTHEPAST-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: BACKTOTHEPAST-L-request@rootsweb.com Hello List, Lately I have been re-reading a copy of an old journal that one of my early ancestors wrote and he uses the word "waddy" several times. I have seen reference to this same word in other old writings.The word is sometimes spelled waddie. I can't find that word in any dictionary new or old. In the context it was written I believe it to mean "cowboy" or "stockman" as we know the term today. It seems like I read somewhere that the word "cowboy" was coined in the early "B" western type picture shows in the 1920-1930's. I have certainly never seen that word in print from earlier times, like around or before 1900. Does anyone out there care to comment on this, am I wrong to think the word waddy means something else besides cowboy? Shirley in TX ==== BACKTOTHEPAST Mailing List ==== Be sure to check out the web site that goes with this page at:http://freepages.nostalgia.rootsweb.com/~backtothepast/ --part1_6f.1105f8db.27b9182e_boundary--

I received this from another list that I am on and wanted to pass it along. Regards, Glenda International Genealogical Index Expanded Received word this week from Salt Lake City that the Family History Department is now uploading 125 million more names to the International Genealogical Index. The updated version should be available by the time you read this at: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/ search_IGI.asp The new names will also be available soon on the CD-ROM version of the International Genealogical Index although an expected ship date has not yet been announced.

Dear Jean, Not in this age and society where Fame and money are concerned; the new Horde......! Regards, Mikey. Spectemur Agendo. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean White <jphwhite@ns.sympatico.ca> To: <NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [NTH-ENG] For anyone interested in King Arthur > Is nothing sacred? King Arthur a member of the Mongol hordes? > > Jean > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "List Admin" <listowner@btinternet.com> > To: <NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 2:42 PM > Subject: [NTH-ENG] For anyone interested in King Arthur > > > > King Arthur may have ridden in from Mongolia by Nick Fielding > > http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/ > > > > THE legend of King Arthur, Britain's ancient king fabled for his > > chivalrous > > knights of the round table, may instead have sprung from the warrior > > hordes > > of central Asia. Claims in a new book challenge existing theories that > > Arthur > > could have been a propaganda tool to justify the Norman attack on > > Saxon > > England or a Celtic chieftain. "These tales are routinely assigned to > > the > > 'pagan' culture of the Celto-Britons, but not all of them can be found > > there," says Howard Reid, the anthropologist who has written Arthur, > > the > > Dragon King, to be published later this month. "The simple equation > > that the > > Arthurian world was a direct descendant of early Celtic Britain does > > not add > > up." Reid claims the legend arrived with a detachment of Sarmatian > > tribesmen > > from the steppes, brought to Hadrian's Wall by the Romans. The > > Sarmatians > > worshipped a god of war who was said to take the form of a magic sword > > similar to Arthur's Excalibur. Written accounts of the Arthurian > > legend first > > occur in Geoffrey of Monmouth's The History of the Kings of Britain, > > published in 1136, before reaching their most elaborate versions in > > the 19th > > century. By then Arthur had become the hero of the ancient Britons, > > fearlessly defending his people against Saxon invaders. His court of > > Camelot > > was thought to be at Tintagel Castle in Cornwall, although almost > > every part > > of Britain has its own version of the Arthurian legend. The stories of > > Excalibur, the wizard Merlin, the round table and the heroic exploits > > of the > > knights such as Lancelot, Gawain and Galahad and their quest for the > > Holy > > Grail entered the national psyche. However, Arthur's name appears in > > no list > > of kings known to historians and archeological evidence of his > > existence has > > proved elusive. Instead, says Reid, we should be looking to the > > mounted > > warriors of central Asia, later to enter history in the form of the > > Mongol > > army of Genghis Khan. According to Reid, their most powerful deity was > > the > > god of war. By about AD175 one offshoot tribe, the Sarmatians, were > > encroaching on Roman territories. Fearful of their battle skills, the > > Romans > > took to hiring them as mercenaries and many were sent to the distant > > Roman > > province of Britannia. Up to 5,500 Sarmatians were taken to Hadrian's > > Wall by > > the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius. With them they brought their myths > > and > > legends. Reid claims the word Excalibur is derived from the Kalybes, a > > sub-group of the Sarmatians who were famous blacksmiths. Some > > historians have > > attacked Reid's theories. Dr Oliver Padel, from Cambridge University's > > Department of Anglo-Saxon, Norse and Celtic, said the Arthurian legend > > had > > sprung from Wales long after the departure of the Romans. "The > > original > > Arthur found in Welsh literature is very different to the popular > > conception. > > He did not exist in a world of knights on horseback and he was not a > > king," > > says Padel, author of Arthur in Medieval Welsh Literature. He claims > > the > > legend emerged over a period of 700 years from AD830, with elements > > such as > > the lady of the lake and Arthur's court of Camelot being added later. > > Padel > > said: "What Reid's book does is take little bits from the later stages > > of the > > legend and assumes them to be important for analysing the origins of > > the > > legend." > > http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/ > > > > Mike > > Admin Northern-England-L@rootsweb.com > > http://www.genealogy45.fsnet.co.uk/ > > check out Dave's bits & bobs here, > > http://212.19.69.91/north > > > > > > > > ==== NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from the list in mail mode send a message to > > NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains the word unsubscribe and nothing else. > > If you are in digest mode, then send the command instead to > > NORTHERN-ENGLAND-D-request@rootsweb.com > > > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.230 / Virus Database: 111 - Release Date: 1/25/01 > > > ==== NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List ==== > There is a map showing the areas and Counties which this list covers highlighted in red here, > http://www.genealogy45.fsnet.co.uk/ >

Mrs. Broomfield's dishwasher broke down, so she called her repairman. He couldn't accommodate her with an evening appointment and, since she had to go to work the next day, she told him: "I'll leave the key under the door mat. Fix the dishwasher please& leave the bill on the the kitchen top. By the way, don't worry about my Rottweiler. He won't bother you. But, whatever you do, do not under any circumstances talk to the parrot!" When the repairman arrived at Mrs. Broomfield's house the next day, he faced the biggest and meanest looking Rottweiler he had ever seen. But, just like she had said, the dog just lay there on the carpet, watching him go about his business. The whole time he was there, the parrot drove him virtually insane with his incessant squawking and talking. Finally the he couldn't contain himself any longer and yelled: "Shut up, you stupid bird!" The parrot replied: "Get him, Brutus! Regards, Mikey. Spectemur Agendo.

Good Morning, Since so many of you enjoy putting your hand to the penning of words, I thought you might enjoy this. (if you have already seen this just delete it - my files have been switched over from my hard drive and...) I am sure that some of you can understand... Regards, Glenda HOW TO WRITE GOOD My several years in the word game have learnt me several rules: Avoid alliteration. Always. Prepositions are not words to end sentences with. Avoid cliches like the plague. (They're old hat.) Employ the vernacular. Eschew ampersands & abbreviations, etc. Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are unnecessary. It is wrong to ever split an infinitive. Contractions aren't necessary. Foreign words and phrases are not apropos. One should never generalize. Eliminate quotations. As Ralph Waldo Emerson once said: "I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.'' By Frank L. Visco Vice-president and Senior Copywriter at USAdvertising.

:)

Is nothing sacred? King Arthur a member of the Mongol hordes? Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: "List Admin" <listowner@btinternet.com> To: <NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 2:42 PM Subject: [NTH-ENG] For anyone interested in King Arthur > King Arthur may have ridden in from Mongolia by Nick Fielding > http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/ > > THE legend of King Arthur, Britain's ancient king fabled for his > chivalrous > knights of the round table, may instead have sprung from the warrior > hordes > of central Asia. Claims in a new book challenge existing theories that > Arthur > could have been a propaganda tool to justify the Norman attack on > Saxon > England or a Celtic chieftain. "These tales are routinely assigned to > the > 'pagan' culture of the Celto-Britons, but not all of them can be found > there," says Howard Reid, the anthropologist who has written Arthur, > the > Dragon King, to be published later this month. "The simple equation > that the > Arthurian world was a direct descendant of early Celtic Britain does > not add > up." Reid claims the legend arrived with a detachment of Sarmatian > tribesmen > from the steppes, brought to Hadrian's Wall by the Romans. The > Sarmatians > worshipped a god of war who was said to take the form of a magic sword > similar to Arthur's Excalibur. Written accounts of the Arthurian > legend first > occur in Geoffrey of Monmouth's The History of the Kings of Britain, > published in 1136, before reaching their most elaborate versions in > the 19th > century. By then Arthur had become the hero of the ancient Britons, > fearlessly defending his people against Saxon invaders. His court of > Camelot > was thought to be at Tintagel Castle in Cornwall, although almost > every part > of Britain has its own version of the Arthurian legend. The stories of > Excalibur, the wizard Merlin, the round table and the heroic exploits > of the > knights such as Lancelot, Gawain and Galahad and their quest for the > Holy > Grail entered the national psyche. However, Arthur's name appears in > no list > of kings known to historians and archeological evidence of his > existence has > proved elusive. Instead, says Reid, we should be looking to the > mounted > warriors of central Asia, later to enter history in the form of the > Mongol > army of Genghis Khan. According to Reid, their most powerful deity was > the > god of war. By about AD175 one offshoot tribe, the Sarmatians, were > encroaching on Roman territories. Fearful of their battle skills, the > Romans > took to hiring them as mercenaries and many were sent to the distant > Roman > province of Britannia. Up to 5,500 Sarmatians were taken to Hadrian's > Wall by > the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius. With them they brought their myths > and > legends. Reid claims the word Excalibur is derived from the Kalybes, a > sub-group of the Sarmatians who were famous blacksmiths. Some > historians have > attacked Reid's theories. Dr Oliver Padel, from Cambridge University's > Department of Anglo-Saxon, Norse and Celtic, said the Arthurian legend > had > sprung from Wales long after the departure of the Romans. "The > original > Arthur found in Welsh literature is very different to the popular > conception. > He did not exist in a world of knights on horseback and he was not a > king," > says Padel, author of Arthur in Medieval Welsh Literature. He claims > the > legend emerged over a period of 700 years from AD830, with elements > such as > the lady of the lake and Arthur's court of Camelot being added later. > Padel > said: "What Reid's book does is take little bits from the later stages > of the > legend and assumes them to be important for analysing the origins of > the > legend." > http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/ > > Mike > Admin Northern-England-L@rootsweb.com > http://www.genealogy45.fsnet.co.uk/ > check out Dave's bits & bobs here, > http://212.19.69.91/north > > > > ==== NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the list in mail mode send a message to > NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L-request@rootsweb.com > that contains the word unsubscribe and nothing else. > If you are in digest mode, then send the command instead to > NORTHERN-ENGLAND-D-request@rootsweb.com > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.230 / Virus Database: 111 - Release Date: 1/25/01

Many thanks for that Mike. A worthy work to those who are interested in this is area and may not have heard of it and contains related historical multi-cultural evidences is Robert Graves's "The White Goddess". On the basis of my to date only brief study of the above highly detailed and complex work, I would tend to agree with Dr Padel that he has only taken a few aspects of the legend, linked it for his analysis without giving due consideration to the numerous other extant facts and educated speculations available. His theory about the Sword manufacture may well be of worth, I could maybe eventually buy that! As to a country and it peoples swallowing the Culture & legends of a minor Mercenary group because of the superiority of a smithing technique in producing weapons is to say the least highly dubious. About a year ago a British Blacksmith reproduced after examination of a sword discovered in an Anglo Saxon buriel, one that was clearly produced by such a technique of multiple folding and combining two types of metal. He made no claim nor did the other scientists and Archeologists that it was of course Excalibur!! Regards, Mikey. Spectemur Agendo. ----- Original Message ----- From: List Admin <listowner@btinternet.com> To: <NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 6:42 PM Subject: [NTH-ENG] For anyone interested in King Arthur > King Arthur may have ridden in from Mongolia by Nick Fielding > http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/ > > THE legend of King Arthur, Britain's ancient king fabled for his > chivalrous > knights of the round table, may instead have sprung from the warrior > hordes > of central Asia. Claims in a new book challenge existing theories that > Arthur > could have been a propaganda tool to justify the Norman attack on > Saxon > England or a Celtic chieftain. "These tales are routinely assigned to > the > 'pagan' culture of the Celto-Britons, but not all of them can be found > there," says Howard Reid, the anthropologist who has written Arthur, > the > Dragon King, to be published later this month. "The simple equation > that the > Arthurian world was a direct descendant of early Celtic Britain does > not add > up." Reid claims the legend arrived with a detachment of Sarmatian > tribesmen > from the steppes, brought to Hadrian's Wall by the Romans. The > Sarmatians > worshipped a god of war who was said to take the form of a magic sword > similar to Arthur's Excalibur. Written accounts of the Arthurian > legend first > occur in Geoffrey of Monmouth's The History of the Kings of Britain, > published in 1136, before reaching their most elaborate versions in > the 19th > century. By then Arthur had become the hero of the ancient Britons, > fearlessly defending his people against Saxon invaders. His court of > Camelot > was thought to be at Tintagel Castle in Cornwall, although almost > every part > of Britain has its own version of the Arthurian legend. The stories of > Excalibur, the wizard Merlin, the round table and the heroic exploits > of the > knights such as Lancelot, Gawain and Galahad and their quest for the > Holy > Grail entered the national psyche. However, Arthur's name appears in > no list > of kings known to historians and archeological evidence of his > existence has > proved elusive. Instead, says Reid, we should be looking to the > mounted > warriors of central Asia, later to enter history in the form of the > Mongol > army of Genghis Khan. According to Reid, their most powerful deity was > the > god of war. By about AD175 one offshoot tribe, the Sarmatians, were > encroaching on Roman territories. Fearful of their battle skills, the > Romans > took to hiring them as mercenaries and many were sent to the distant > Roman > province of Britannia. Up to 5,500 Sarmatians were taken to Hadrian's > Wall by > the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius. With them they brought their myths > and > legends. Reid claims the word Excalibur is derived from the Kalybes, a > sub-group of the Sarmatians who were famous blacksmiths. Some > historians have > attacked Reid's theories. Dr Oliver Padel, from Cambridge University's > Department of Anglo-Saxon, Norse and Celtic, said the Arthurian legend > had > sprung from Wales long after the departure of the Romans. "The > original > Arthur found in Welsh literature is very different to the popular > conception. > He did not exist in a world of knights on horseback and he was not a > king," > says Padel, author of Arthur in Medieval Welsh Literature. He claims > the > legend emerged over a period of 700 years from AD830, with elements > such as > the lady of the lake and Arthur's court of Camelot being added later. > Padel > said: "What Reid's book does is take little bits from the later stages > of the > legend and assumes them to be important for analysing the origins of > the > legend." > http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/ > > Mike > Admin Northern-England-L@rootsweb.com > http://www.genealogy45.fsnet.co.uk/ > check out Dave's bits & bobs here, > http://212.19.69.91/north > > > > ==== NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the list in mail mode send a message to > NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L-request@rootsweb.com > that contains the word unsubscribe and nothing else. > If you are in digest mode, then send the command instead to > NORTHERN-ENGLAND-D-request@rootsweb.com >

King Arthur may have ridden in from Mongolia by Nick Fielding http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/ THE legend of King Arthur, Britain's ancient king fabled for his chivalrous knights of the round table, may instead have sprung from the warrior hordes of central Asia. Claims in a new book challenge existing theories that Arthur could have been a propaganda tool to justify the Norman attack on Saxon England or a Celtic chieftain. "These tales are routinely assigned to the 'pagan' culture of the Celto-Britons, but not all of them can be found there," says Howard Reid, the anthropologist who has written Arthur, the Dragon King, to be published later this month. "The simple equation that the Arthurian world was a direct descendant of early Celtic Britain does not add up." Reid claims the legend arrived with a detachment of Sarmatian tribesmen from the steppes, brought to Hadrian's Wall by the Romans. The Sarmatians worshipped a god of war who was said to take the form of a magic sword similar to Arthur's Excalibur. Written accounts of the Arthurian legend first occur in Geoffrey of Monmouth's The History of the Kings of Britain, published in 1136, before reaching their most elaborate versions in the 19th century. By then Arthur had become the hero of the ancient Britons, fearlessly defending his people against Saxon invaders. His court of Camelot was thought to be at Tintagel Castle in Cornwall, although almost every part of Britain has its own version of the Arthurian legend. The stories of Excalibur, the wizard Merlin, the round table and the heroic exploits of the knights such as Lancelot, Gawain and Galahad and their quest for the Holy Grail entered the national psyche. However, Arthur's name appears in no list of kings known to historians and archeological evidence of his existence has proved elusive. Instead, says Reid, we should be looking to the mounted warriors of central Asia, later to enter history in the form of the Mongol army of Genghis Khan. According to Reid, their most powerful deity was the god of war. By about AD175 one offshoot tribe, the Sarmatians, were encroaching on Roman territories. Fearful of their battle skills, the Romans took to hiring them as mercenaries and many were sent to the distant Roman province of Britannia. Up to 5,500 Sarmatians were taken to Hadrian's Wall by the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius. With them they brought their myths and legends. Reid claims the word Excalibur is derived from the Kalybes, a sub-group of the Sarmatians who were famous blacksmiths. Some historians have attacked Reid's theories. Dr Oliver Padel, from Cambridge University's Department of Anglo-Saxon, Norse and Celtic, said the Arthurian legend had sprung from Wales long after the departure of the Romans. "The original Arthur found in Welsh literature is very different to the popular conception. He did not exist in a world of knights on horseback and he was not a king," says Padel, author of Arthur in Medieval Welsh Literature. He claims the legend emerged over a period of 700 years from AD830, with elements such as the lady of the lake and Arthur's court of Camelot being added later. Padel said: "What Reid's book does is take little bits from the later stages of the legend and assumes them to be important for analysing the origins of the legend." http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/ Mike Admin Northern-England-L@rootsweb.com http://www.genealogy45.fsnet.co.uk/ check out Dave's bits & bobs here, http://212.19.69.91/north

Mikey, Where specifically was this Anglo Saxon buriel ground located to which you made reference ? Is the Excalibur on display for the public to view and have you personally seen it ? Not long ago, on a television documentry program on the his- tory of weapontry, there was a very interesting piece ex- plaining and demonstrating the metal folding technique used to make swords stronger. Regards, Glenda >A worthy work to those who are interested in this >is area and may not have heard of it and contains related historical >multi-cultural evidences is Robert Graves's "The White Goddess". > >On the basis of my to date only brief study of the above highly detailed and >complex work, I would tend to agree >with Dr Padel that he has only taken a few aspects of the legend, linked it >for his analysis without giving due consideration to the numerous other >extant facts >and educated speculations available. > >His theory about the Sword manufacture may well be of worth, I could maybe >eventually buy that! As to a country and it peoples swallowing the Culture >& legends of a minor Mercenary group because of the superiority of a >smithing technique in producing weapons is to say the least highly dubious. > >About a year ago a British Blacksmith reproduced >after examination of a sword discovered in an Anglo Saxon buriel, one that >was clearly produced by such >a technique of multiple folding and combining two types >of metal. > >He made no claim nor did the other scientists >and Archeologists that it was of course Excalibur!! > >Regards, > >Mikey. >Spectemur Agendo.

This reminds me of what my step-mother did after my father passed away - sold or gave away almost every- thing that belonged to my father's family (except for the things my step-sister wanted and her favorite grand- children wanted). Regards, Glenda Genealogists Nightmare Dear cousin: In response to your letter, I am sorry to inform you that grandpa "Fred" died some time back and the stuff you asked about is not available. The personal property the family did not want was sold at an Estate sale. All those boxes of junk did not interest a single buyer. We were able to salvage several binders for the kid's homework after we sent all the paper to the incinerator. The kids really complained about having to lug all that paper and pictures of those ugly folks to the dumpster. An old family Bible from the 1840'a did bring $5.00. The one from the 1870's did not sell. There also was a bunch of floppy disks that we were able to reformat and download some games for the kids to play on their new playstation. At least SOMEBODY got some good from the three generations' work. I saw fellow at a flea market a couple of weeks ago and he said he threw the Bible in the trash after nobody was interested in it. He said he got an offer for fifty cents for it, but would rather burn it than give it away. He seemed to be having a lot of success with some very nice Elvis painting at his booth. The two aunts you asked about are also dead. They were such a delight and could talk all day long about the things papa had written about. I remember them saying something about some records that were copied from two courthouses that later burned. Neither ever wrote down a single thing. The letter you referred to was one he typed up and sent to lots of folks who wrote him. He laughed about them never getting any of his hard work as well as his Father's and about his Grandfather who was in the Civil War. He guarded all the information carefully to the bitter end. I wish I could remember some of the things to help you, but I was bored to tears listening to them talk about the family members who were in the Civil War and those silly pieces of pa- per he showed so proudly. I vaguely remember they had some beeswax seals and something to do with the land grants that were destroyed in the courthouse fires. I wish I could remember the story about his grandfather's evening with Jefferson Davis when he was on the run. There were also some very juicy stories that were handed down, but I don't remember them very well. Another thing I remember after he got sick was some fellow calling him and he agreed to let him come down and copy all his material. He told him he would call him back when he felt better. Papa mentioned something about letting the society the man was from have all his work since nobody in the family cared anything about a bunch of people who had been dead for 200 years. Papa died the next week. I am so sorry papa and the two generations wasted so much of their life on such worthless hobbies and hope your family will follow something more interesting. We enjoy Bingo and bowling very much here in Pleasantville. I really enjoyed hearing from a long-lost cousin and would like to hear back if you find anything important. The kids need the computer for their games and I need to watch the "Millionaire" show.

Two good references. jean in NS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail Stokes" <lara@raider87.fsnet.co.uk> To: <CHESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [CHS] After the IGI .... > Let me endorse Colin's Family Tree Detective. It should be the > genealogist's bible! I used it in the early days of my research, and was > lucky enough to work at Manchester University Press where Colin Rogers often > called in to talk to his editor. He solved many a problem for me! > > Gail > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Castle Translations" <lynda.burke@btconnect.com> > To: <CHESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 11:23 AM > Subject: [CHS] After the IGI .... > > > > May I recommend two well-written and absolutely trustworthy paperback > books? > > They are full of information, will answer many (most?) of the queries I > > have seen posted and set you thinking in all sorts of other ways as well. > > > > 1. The Family Tree Detective: Tracing your ancestors in England and > Wales > > by Colin D Rogers (3rd ed.) > > Manchester University Press, 1997, ISBN 0-7190-5213-0. UK price > 11.99 > > > > 2. The Complete A-X 19th & 20th Century British History Handbook: Eric > > Evans. Hodder & Stoughton 1998, > > ISBN 0-340-67378-8, UK price 9.99. > > > > Both authors are academics at Lancaster University - and active in many > > aspects of community life. > > Good luck. > > > > Lynda Chetwood Burke > > Castle Translations > > Tel 01524 841169 > > Fax 01524 381721 > > > > > > > > > > ==== CHESHIRE Mailing List ==== > > Index to Cheshire Wills: > > http://www.fhsc.org.uk/wills > > > > > > > ==== CHESHIRE Mailing List ==== > Cheshire Library Services: > http://www.u-net.com/cheshire/library/home.htm > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.230 / Virus Database: 111 - Release Date: 1/25/01

Yet another good posting. Jean in NS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" <roystock@compuserve.com> To: <CHESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 7:57 AM Subject: [CHS] Checking Burial Registers Gay wrote..... >>One parish register I have looked at even recorded the names of the maternal grandparents in their baptism register.<< IT sounds to me as if you were lucky enough there to find a vicar who had adopted the Dade style of writing parish registers. There were a few in Cheshire. To explain further..... We who research principally in Yorkshire are fortunate to have had for a period of about 40 years in the late 18th/early19th century what were called Dade Registers. These were named after the Rev. William Dade (1740-1790) a Yorkshire clergyman who was curate, vicar and rector of five York parishes and two in the East Riding. Yorkshire genealogists owe him a huge debt because he introduced a system of register-keeping which gave much more detail. In recording baptisms he recorded in the registers as well as the full names of both parents, the names of the two grandfathers, their occupations and places of residence, and also the actual date of birth as well as that of baptism. Discovering the grandfathers' names and places of residence, of course, very often takes you back not only another generation, but to another parish. In 1770 Dade wrote in the parish register of St. Helen's, York: "This scheme if properly put in execution will afford much clearer intelligence to the researches of posterity than the imperfect method hitherto generally pursued." He was indeed a man of vision and was thinking of future genealogists like us. Dade's influence spread, especially in Yorkshire, and his name came to be attached generically to any registers which included greater than the normal amount of information expected. Here is a superb example of a Dade-style entry, posted recently to the YORKSGEN list and found in the registers of Selby Abbey. "James RYDING, 5th son of Joseph RYDING of Selby, Sailer and son of John RYDING of Preston, Lancashire, grocer, by Dorothy his wife, daughter of Thomas WAREING of (Otton) ?? near Preston, farmer and Ann, daughter of Richard FISHER of Aldborough, hauler, by Elizabeth his wife and daughter of William CARTER of Aldborough, saddler born 26 April 1792 & bapt 12 June 1792." See how the entry gives not just the child and both parents (a great many clerics didn't even bother to put the mother's name down), but the full names of BOTH sets of grandparents AND two gt-grandfathers as well ! Here in just one parish entry you have a family tree of four generations. Also, you have the occupations of all the males and the fact that this was the 5th son, indicating at least four earlier children who can be sought. This is far, far more information than you get on a modern birth certificate today! Dade Registers are principally found in Yorkshire, but his influence spread to some parishes in Lancashire, Nottinghamshire and Cheshire as well. They are found between 1770 and 1812. In the latter year, a new system of printed forms was introduced which, ironically, gave less information than had been given under Dade-style registers. Please don't ask me which Cheshire parishes had Dade-style entries because I am not aware of any central list. I can only tell you that you will certainly know them when you see them. Roy Stockdill, Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society Web page:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock Web page of the Guild of One-Name Studies:- http://www.one-name.org "Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845) CHESHIRE interests - PLEVIN and WILLIAMS at Nantwich/Acton-by-Nantwich, pre 1814 ==== CHESHIRE Mailing List ==== Instructions, Netiquette, Welcome Message and FAQ for the Cheshire-L Mailing List: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/8555/chslist.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.230 / Virus Database: 111 - Release Date: 1/25/01

another interesting posting from Roy Stockdill Jean in NS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Stockdill" <roystock@compuserve.com> To: <CHESHIRE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 8:31 AM Subject: [CHS] Ages given on Marriage certificates >>Frankly I do not think most folk knew their ages. It did not matter to them. They just made a guess.<< THERE is much truth in this. One of the most important things any newcomer to family history should learn is that the very first thing you must do is cast off all modern ideas, values and preconceptions and attempt to project yourself mentally into the age in which you are researching. It often comes as a surprise to newbies, for instance, that their surname was spelt in so many different ways, especially today when the spelling of our surname is sacrosanct and "set in stone" to us. It simply wasn't as important to our ancestors, most of whom were illiterate and rarely needed to know how their surname was spelt, so they usually left it to the vicar on occasions of baptisms, marriages and deaths. If you find a sudden change in the spelling of your family surname in parish registers, try and find a list of the vicars for the period and you may well notice that the change coincided with the arrival of a new incumbent who thought the name should be spelt some other way! Likewise with ages. Anyone born before the start of civil registration in 1837 would quite likely have no record of their birth or baptism unless it had been recorded in a family bible or some similar document, thus when the census enumerators called they often made a guess. This is why ages can vary so much from one census to another. Equally, they did not always know where they had been born and gave the first place they could remember living in, whereas that might not have been the actual birthplace at all. You will also often find that in one census a birthplace is given as a village and in a subsequent census as the nearest town. It is the same with addresses. Again, newbies may find this hard to understand but before about the 1840s or 1850s most people simply didn't have official addresses. If they lived in a village everyone knew where they lived and a stranger would quickly be given directions - "It's the second cottage on the left past the church" or whatever. It was only the gradual spread of literacy and hence the mail, when people began to receive letters, that made proper formal addresses necessary, first in towns and then in rural areas later. Even in major cities, addresses didn't really begin to come into widespread use until about the middle of the 19th century. The key, as I said, is always to try and put yourself in the position of your ancestors and forget modern values. Roy Stockdill, Editor, The Journal of One-Name Studies The Stockdill Family History Society Web page:- http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/roystock Web page of the Guild of One-Name Studies:- http://www.one-name.org "Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does he will tell you. If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith (scholar and humorist 1771-1845) CHESHIRE interests - PLEVIN and WILLIAMS at Nantwich/Acton-by-Nantwich, pre 1814 ==== CHESHIRE Mailing List ==== CHESHIRE-L Mailing List Archives: http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl Just enter 'cheshire' at the prompt. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.230 / Virus Database: 111 - Release Date: 1/25/01

Hi Jean, This is very interesting as I think we do tend to forget what life was like for previous generations. It is only this preoccupation with forms that has made life so complicated....lol Maggie, Who hates filling in forms........

Hi Jean, It is a pity that my birth certificate didn't have all that information on it.....would have made life much simpler. Maggie

Sorry Sophiee, Fresh out of tissues ! OVER THE BRUSH, LIVE OVER THE BRUSH. NW English. Colloquial. Is, for a man & a woman, to co-habit without the sanctity of marriage. Alternatively a married couple living over a broom shop ! :-) Banns. ... Definition: Public announcement, especially in a church, of an intended marriage. In many churches, banns were read aloud on three successive Sundays. ... ( If I remember - to give objectors a chance to speak up ! ) Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "SOPHIEE" <2sophiee@home.com> To: <NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 9:24 PM Subject: [NTH-ENG] Re: [LIV] Over the Brush? huh? > > I would like to know this heading as well as and explanation of the meaning of "Banns" > Soph passes Lynne a tissue. > > > Interpretation needed, please. What does "over the brush" mean??? > > Thanks! > > Lynne > > with a very bad head cold in the USA :-( > > > > > > ==== ENG-LIVERPOOL Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > ============================== > > Create a FREE family website at MyFamily.com! > > http://www.myfamily.com/banner.asp?ID=RWLIST2 > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.230 / Virus Database: 111 - Release Date: 1/25/01 > > > ==== NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List ==== > Visit the lists Pulse Page here, > http://212.19.69.91/north/ > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.230 / Virus Database: 111 - Release Date: 25-Jan-01

In a message dated 10/02/01 20:12:39 GMT Standard Time, 2sophiee@home.com writes: << would like to know this heading as well as and explanation of the meaning of "Banns" >> 'Over the brush' means living together without being married. Before people can marry in the Church of England the Banns have to be called in the church of the parish that the bride lives in and if the groom lives in a different parish they have to be called in his church as well. The Banns of Marriage state the names of the people to be married and ask if anyone knows any reason why they may not be married. After the third reading the couple can marry. Maggie