"Hello's to All" What a good recommendation Marion, we all need to refresh once in a while. I am about....I work long hours as well as Saturdays now, but thats not to say I'm not trying to keep up with all the fun postings & genealogy. Besides checking in...I thought I would also post my interests again McCOOEY Family - Kirkdale West Derby Liverpool England Edward & Patrick (twins) b 1893 -shipped to Canada 1905 & 1907 Bridget b. 1895 - shipped to Canada 1907, landed in Warren PA USA William b.1896 -d.1918 Monmouthshire Army Wales Thomas b. 1899 (above children all British Home Care Orphans) Parents of the above - Mary (formally STOKES) & Michael McCOOEY Other known family member Martha McCOOEY Any McCooey's out there? Smiles to you day, Sophiee McCOOEY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marion" <mm@mmaychell.freeserve.co.uk> To: <NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 12:38 PM Subject: [NTH-ENG] Checking In > Hi Everyone, > Just checking in as Mike has checked out (so to speak). > What a lot of quiet subscribers this list has, nearly 200 and we only > hear from a few so come on everyone pop in and introduce yourselves, > your interests or just to say hello. > This is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, historical, or > cultural interest in the entire north of England and also allows > trivia as some of you will have noticed by now LOL. > > TTFN > Marion > Temp L.O. NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com > > > ==== NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List ==== > Visit the lists Pulse Page here, > http://212.19.69.91/north/ > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.231 / Virus Database: 112 - Release Date: 2/12/01

Notice! Take lettuce from the top of the stack, or heads will roll! Well, if Jerry Springer isn't educational TV, why does it make me feel so much smarter? A TV can insult your intelligence, but nothing rubs it in like a computer. I tried to get in touch with my inner child, but he isn't allowed to talk to strangers. I have to take my pension cheque to the bank. It's too little to go by itself. We're lucky, or are we!? Not many countries can watch their government in action. I must be following my diet too closely. I keep gaining on it. Welcome to Megacomputer's 24-hour helpline. If you have been waiting LESS than 24 hours, please remain on the line. Whenever I'm in a mood to watch the world go by, I just keep to the road's speed limit. Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things. One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor. If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes? Regards, Mikey. Spectemur Agendo.

Thanks Mikey for this one and the Pilots and Flatlanders......very good. Maggie

Thanks Marion, it is far easier than hitting the 'reply all' button and taking out the name you dont want. I am sure that people who want to reply 'off list' will manage it the same as those of us who preferred to reply to the list did.....by hitting 'reply all' and removing the one you don't want. Maggie

This is an interesting article. Jean in NS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beverly" <sekey@pitnet.net> To: <COALMINERS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 11:54 AM Subject: [C-M] Genealogy News > Genealogy Goes High-tech > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010303/sc/molecular_genealogy_1.html > > Thought you might be interested in this news article. It's very interesting! > > Beverly > > > ==== COALMINERS Mailing List ==== > >>>>COALMINERS mailing list<<<< > When listing town names and counties please spell the entire name and > also indicate the country you are reserching. Such as Walsall, Staffordshire, England > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.230 / Virus Database: 111 - Release Date: 1/25/01

In a message dated 03/03/01 23:06:53 GMT Standard Time, rubbish@clara.co.uk writes: << Has anyone used their computer for internet phone calls (VOIP) or video conferencing? Just curious as to what they are like. >> Hi Sue, I haven't myself but my daughter is teaching in Egypt and has tried ringing my phone line using her computer. The qualitiy wasn't very good on the two occasions that we tried it. Maggie

Jim, Do you know the answer to this question. I know my great Uncles became miners in Tydesley at the age of 12. My Great Aunts were half day scholars and worked the other half in the cotton mill there. TIA Jean in Nova Scotia jphwhite@ns.sympatico.ca > > 1871 > > WINDLEHURST > > Samuel Ferns Widower 43 Coal Miner Cheshire, Marple > Matthew Ferns Son 18 Coal Miner Cheshire, Marple > Richard Ferns Son 17 Coal Miner Cheshire, Marple > John Ferns Son 12 Scholar 1/2 time Cheshire, Marple > Samuel Ferns Son 9 Scholar 1/2 time Cheshire, Marple > Betty Boud Servant - Widow 76 Housekeeper Cheshire, Marple > > Could anyone help me please - Samuel and John above are described as > Scholar half time, I understand from a Fiction book that I read recently > that half time schooling was offered to children in cotton mills. Does any > one know amy more than this - eg was it offered in the mines, did they pay, > or was another way of attracting cheap labour. > > tia > > MIchelle Ferns > > > ==== CHESHIRE Mailing List ==== > CHESHIRE-L Mailing List Archives: > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl > Just enter 'cheshire' at the prompt. > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.230 / Virus Database: 111 - Release Date: 1/25/01

Hi Has anyone used their computer for internet phone calls (VOIP) or video conferencing? Just curious as to what they are like. Sue Kendal --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.231 / Virus Database: 112 - Release Date: 12/02/2001

--3938578.983649918073.JavaMail.nobody@www-a28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=646 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mikey, Thanks for that. I'm fairly convined about map ref. I gave you, but it's al= ways useful to have your interpretation.=20 By the way, what do you make of Ettleton, previously Ediltoun ?? Regards Roy -----Original Message----- >From : Mikey <painter@onetel.net.uk> To : NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com Date : 03 March 2001 14:41:59 Subject : [NTH-ENG] Benrig. Dear Roy, > >Here are the extra bits I put together anyway!:-)) > >St Boswells/LESSUDDEN. =20 > >Previously thought to mean & to have originally been called Lis-Aidan,=20 >meaning the residence of Aidan, or perhaps Lessedwin - as it is in=20 >the old chartularies - that is, the manor-place of Edwin.=93=20 > >However as that may be, is but later not earlier as above, I=20 >felt maybe coincidental! More to it posibly than that,=20 >and set out to examine the name for much earlier foundations. > >Tho Lessudden is the name the meaning could be=20 >contained in a compound word, LES, SUD, & DEN. =20 > >Les gives an Enclosure, Garden or Fort, Les Breton &=20 >Cornish; Lios or Lis (Gadhelic); Lesse (Sclav), wood or=20 >thicket.=20 > >Sud gives South, Norsemen applied the term sudereys=20 >(Southern Islands) to all the British Islands under their=20 >control, S' of Orkney & N of the Island of Mann,=20 >gave Sutherland & etc > >Den gives a Wooded Valley. Den & Dean are Saxon. Dion=20 >is Celtic ( protection shelter). > >The village lies close but to the SOUTH of the River Tweed,=20 >flowing between bold, beautiful, WELL-WOODED BANKS,=20 >and forms the boundary with Berwickshire. It also ties in with >the other bits I speculated about and sent you earlier today. > >In 631 AD King Oswald of Northumbria invited=20 >Aidan of Iona (Saint to be) to set up a monastery at Lindisfarne=20 >with a daughter-house at Mailros, now Old Melrose. The first=20 >prior was Boisel, after whom the village of St Boswell is named. >That doesn doesn't nullify the other Lessudden and to a degree >partly encourages speculation as to why the other name was kept >and its none Norman or Latin structure too if it had been corrupted >it would appear to have gone backwards! Coincidental and oddly in French,= =20 >'Bois', gives Cross & Woodland and forms of 'el', as common village=20 >name endings . Could Horse be a version of Horst or Harts? > >It has the statue of Wallace, whether there were a succession of >forts & Battles there I dont know nor if my insight has any value >or merely ingenious? > >I should be able to unearth the old bits and copy them to you >in due course. > >Regards, > >Mikey. >Spectemur Agendo. > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List =3D=3D=3D=3D >Remember be nice to one another, we only pass this way once but if we do i= t properly once is enough. It's nice to be important but it's more importan= t to be nice. > > ---------------------------------------

Dear Roy, Here are the extra bits I put together anyway!:-)) St Boswells/LESSUDDEN. Previously thought to mean & to have originally been called Lis-Aidan, meaning the residence of Aidan, or perhaps Lessedwin - as it is in the old chartularies - that is, the manor-place of Edwin." However as that may be, is but later not earlier as above, I felt maybe coincidental! More to it posibly than that, and set out to examine the name for much earlier foundations. Tho Lessudden is the name the meaning could be contained in a compound word, LES, SUD, & DEN. Les gives an Enclosure, Garden or Fort, Les Breton & Cornish; Lios or Lis (Gadhelic); Lesse (Sclav), wood or thicket. Sud gives South, Norsemen applied the term sudereys (Southern Islands) to all the British Islands under their control, S' of Orkney & N of the Island of Mann, gave Sutherland & etc Den gives a Wooded Valley. Den & Dean are Saxon. Dion is Celtic ( protection shelter). The village lies close but to the SOUTH of the River Tweed, flowing between bold, beautiful, WELL-WOODED BANKS, and forms the boundary with Berwickshire. It also ties in with the other bits I speculated about and sent you earlier today. In 631 AD King Oswald of Northumbria invited Aidan of Iona (Saint to be) to set up a monastery at Lindisfarne with a daughter-house at Mailros, now Old Melrose. The first prior was Boisel, after whom the village of St Boswell is named. That doesn doesn't nullify the other Lessudden and to a degree partly encourages speculation as to why the other name was kept and its none Norman or Latin structure too if it had been corrupted it would appear to have gone backwards! Coincidental and oddly in French, 'Bois', gives Cross & Woodland and forms of 'el', as common village name endings . Could Horse be a version of Horst or Harts? It has the statue of Wallace, whether there were a succession of forts & Battles there I dont know nor if my insight has any value or merely ingenious? I should be able to unearth the old bits and copy them to you in due course. Regards, Mikey. Spectemur Agendo.

Good Morning All, Welcome back Roy good to hear from you again. As some of you know I have to go away for a few weeks but I am leaving the list in good hands and expect you all behave yourselves. Be warned the temp LO is a tough cookie and she will slap your wrists for any misbehaviour <vbg> be good to her as I had to twist her arm to do this for me. Over to you Marion! Mike Admin Northern-England-L@rootsweb.com http://www.genealogy45.fsnet.co.uk/ check out Dave's bits & bobs here, http://212.19.69.91/north/

--32000121.983616969567.JavaMail.nobody@www-a21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=646 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mikey, As I should have mentioned in my last, Douglas's raid was sufficient large = to have destroyed Penrith on the day of its annual fair in that year, 1380. Roy -----Original Message----- >From : Mikey <painter@onetel.net.uk> To : NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com Date : 03 March 2001 04:00:27 Subject : Re: [NTH-ENG] Horse Rigg. ( Benrig) Dear Roy, > >Is the =93Benrig=93 you are dealing with sited at >the village of St Boswell's/Lessudden. > >Regards, > >Mikey. >Spectemur Agendo. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <roygraham@another.com> >To: <NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 8:59 PM >Subject: [NTH-ENG] Horse Rigg. ( Benrig) > > >> --26882268.983566798326.JavaMail.nobody@www-a28 >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >> Hi All, >> >> Can anyone help with any info. on the Battle of Horse Rigg or Benrig. > circa 1386) ?????? >> >> Roy >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> 20 email addresses from 15,000 domain names - free at >http://www.another.com >> >> --26882268.983566798326.JavaMail.nobody@www-a28-- >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List =3D=3D=3D=3D >> Visit the lists Pulse Page here, >> http://212.19.69.91/north/ >> > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List =3D=3D=3D=3D >An alternative mailing list for genealogy research in >Northern England, this list covers the whole of the North of England > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- 20 email addresses from 15,000 domain names - free at http://www.another.co= m --32000121.983616969567.JavaMail.nobody@www-a21--

--12692670.983616612971.JavaMail.nobody@www-a21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=646 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mikey, Thanks for your help. The origins you mention are conceivable though I susp= ect the name originates from the Arthurian Era. I am aware of Benrig/St.Boswells but I suspect that the Horse Rigg mentione= d lies at NT 827 340. This is suggested by the context given by English chroniclers f= or a battle, probably around 1380 in which the Earl of Dunbar defeated and took prisoner= , Ralph Baron Greystoke, much to annoyance of the English. Moreover militarily if w= e see Dunbar=92s as a diversionary attack to draw attention away from Douglas=92s= invasion through the West March in 1380, and Scottish naval retaliation against the = English fleet in the same year the location makes more sense than one in the centra= l Borders which militarily was at this time of little importance. In deed apart from = Degsastane (sic) and the various sieges of Roxburgh, the only battle of great signific= ance in the Central Borders was Ancrum Moor in 1545. Whilst we are on such topics do you still have a copy of your notes on Cadr= oun Rig, I lost my copy amongst my problems last year ? Roy -----Original Message----- >From : Mikey <painter@onetel.net.uk> To : NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com Date : 03 March 2001 04:00:27 Subject : Re: [NTH-ENG] Horse Rigg. ( Benrig) Dear Roy, > >Is the =93Benrig=93 you are dealing with sited at >the village of St Boswell's/Lessudden. > >Regards, > >Mikey. >Spectemur Agendo. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <roygraham@another.com> >To: <NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 8:59 PM >Subject: [NTH-ENG] Horse Rigg. ( Benrig) > > >> --26882268.983566798326.JavaMail.nobody@www-a28 >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >> Hi All, >> >> Can anyone help with any info. on the Battle of Horse Rigg or Benrig. > circa 1386) ?????? >> >> Roy >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> 20 email addresses from 15,000 domain names - free at >http://www.another.com >> >> --26882268.983566798326.JavaMail.nobody@www-a28-- >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List =3D=3D=3D=3D >> Visit the lists Pulse Page here, >> http://212.19.69.91/north/ >> > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List =3D=3D=3D=3D >An alternative mailing list for genealogy research in >Northern England, this list covers the whole of the North of England > > Your email address says a lot about you. Express yourself @ another.com http://another.com/jump.jsp?destDesc=3Danother.com/login.jsp?sig=3D393 --12692670.983616612971.JavaMail.nobody@www-a21--

Dear Roy, Is the "Benrig" you are dealing with sited at the village of St Boswell's/Lessudden. Regards, Mikey. Spectemur Agendo. ----- Original Message ----- From: <roygraham@another.com> To: <NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 8:59 PM Subject: [NTH-ENG] Horse Rigg. ( Benrig) > --26882268.983566798326.JavaMail.nobody@www-a28 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi All, > > Can anyone help with any info. on the Battle of Horse Rigg or Benrig. circa 1386) ?????? > > Roy > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > 20 email addresses from 15,000 domain names - free at http://www.another.com > > --26882268.983566798326.JavaMail.nobody@www-a28-- > > > ==== NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List ==== > Visit the lists Pulse Page here, > http://212.19.69.91/north/ >

Dear Roy, I was pondering the names Horse Rigg & Benrig: Possibly totally irrelevant, however! Have you considered that Ben was the Saxon Neptune (Posiedon), God of the Sea, and Neptunes Horse? His horse Hippocampes being portrayed by a two legged horse with hindpart the tail of a fish! Demeter was known as the Mare Goddess & was widely worshipped under the name Epona. Re siting of stones on higher spots where generally springs flow: Neptune apposes Apollo (God of Light), in Homer's epic, which means that moisture and dryness are always antagonistic.-- Eustathius. Whilst you were absent I composed a poem, see below, dealing partially with the casting down of undressed stones. Myth has it undressed stones were cast down at sites & or taken to others where they were then dressed and erected. Could not the battle be part & one of many where particular religious sites were destroyed overthrowing old beliefs? Rig, (Saxon, wrigan, to dress; hroegl, a garment. Also , Rig a piece of frolic or fun and the division of a field in Scotland. It is known that under some uprights are the ashes of pyres & artifacts. Possibly back to a hero yet again. , * ENROUTE TO AVALON.* The bones polished winter clean Stare Gaza white amidst the Heather, Gorse and Broom, the Groveless paths meander, Taken not, only for the sheep. Down, enfolded prior the Solstice. Briefly past Havod on crisp snow The Hare flew down the path of light. Otter higher above turns & turns inside The grass balconied above the pool. Unearthly passage Isle airs past, Black Dog collared White digs, For the squire, beneath the stone, We discover a bush-hand writing: Ignite, as dusk ascends, a fire of Oak . Warm fleshed soul travels the Universe By Merlins portal the Hawthorn-bush. Not disturbing the Prince Enchanter. Who took the undressed stones! Re-erected dressed on the plain. The Temple of Annwm broken, Arthurs hand moved on, having writ. [ Presiding over the Treasure House, Issuing words mechanical strung to Gather, the Old Goddess of Death.] "Annwm now trys to become Apollo." MJWC. 7.1.01. Regards, Mikey. Spectemur Agendo. ----- Original Message ----- From: <roygraham@another.com> To: <NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 8:59 PM Subject: [NTH-ENG] Horse Rigg. ( Benrig) > --26882268.983566798326.JavaMail.nobody@www-a28 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi All, > > Can anyone help with any info. on the Battle of Horse Rigg or Benrig. circa 1386) ?????? > > Roy > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > 20 email addresses from 15,000 domain names - free at http://www.another.com > > --26882268.983566798326.JavaMail.nobody@www-a28-- > > > ==== NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List ==== > Visit the lists Pulse Page here, > http://212.19.69.91/north/ >

Yesterday I received a message from someone who required confirmation of receipt. I did not download it but kept it to deal with next time I was on line. Unfortunately by mistake I deleted all my Inbox messages and though I was able to retrieve them, this one went unnoticed . I have no idea who sent the message and would be grateful if whoever sent it would contact me again and I offer my apologies. David Spark (West Riding of Yorkshire)

Hi Roy, Welcome back - we all missed you. Regret this was one battle I missed in a past life ;-) I got time off for good behaviour ! Regards Dave > --26882268.983566798326.JavaMail.nobody@www-a28 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi All, > > Can anyone help with any info. on the Battle of Horse Rigg or Benrig. ( circa 1386) ?????? > > Roy > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > 20 email addresses from 15,000 domain names - free at http://www.another.com > > --26882268.983566798326.JavaMail.nobody@www-a28-- > > > ==== NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List ==== > Visit the lists Pulse Page here, > http://212.19.69.91/north/ > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.231 / Virus Database: 112 - Release Date: 12-Feb-01

--26882268.983566798326.JavaMail.nobody@www-a28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Can anyone help with any info. on the Battle of Horse Rigg or Benrig. ( circa 1386) ?????? Roy --------------------------------------------------------------------- 20 email addresses from 15,000 domain names - free at http://www.another.com --26882268.983566798326.JavaMail.nobody@www-a28--

--27511209.983566122277.JavaMail.nobody@www-a28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=646 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim, It's, if anything even worse in the Scottish Borders. Not only F & M but se= veral feet of snow, no electricity, frozen calor gas tanks, temperatures la= st night down to -16 & for obvious reasons no farmers to clear the roads. M= y sympathy goes to everyone affected. Roy -----Original Message----- >From : Jim SHARPE <sharpe@britishlibrary.net> To : NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com Date : 02 March 2001 20:17:52 Subject : Re: [NTH-ENG] Suffering in England and Wales If cattle weren't shipped around the country and Europe these outbreaks >would probably not occur. >Why governments cannot see the probable outcome of their actions beats >me. > >Jim Sharpe Manchester U K >----- Original Message ----- >From: Glenda R. Wilson <wrwgrw@earthlink.net> >To: <NORTHERN-ENGLAND-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: 02/mm/01 3:07 PM >Subject: [NTH-ENG] Suffering in England and Wales > > >> >> Hi, >> >> This has come from a friend who lives in Wales and has given me per- >> mission to use it. It is heart breaking what is going on and please >> know you have our thoughts of concern and prayers as well as our >> family, friend, and our churches. >> >> =93We are suffering now in Wales as well as England from the Foot and >mouth >> Disease....They are killing the sheep in Powys, not to far from >Llangynog >> or here, once killed they burn the carcasses and it is terrible to see >> the >> tears of the farmers who have spent their lives trying to make a >living >> weeping as everything is gone in 24 hours. >> >> Anglesey has the same problems and movement restrictions are in place. >No >> one can walk in the countryside, horses are confined to there paddocks >and >> farms and stables. No animals can be transported and no animals can be >> slaughtered for meat. >> It is hard, hard indeed to imagine the distress and bitterness that >people >> feel here. There is a vaccine against this disease but the Government >will >> not use it as, when the seal is broken, according to international >law, we >> become a nation with a permanent infectious livestock problem. >> >> There is nothing we can do except pray that the vets can stop it's >> progress >> dead in its tracks. In 1967 we had 5'000'000 animals destroyed in the >UK >> due >> to the same virus which can even be airborne. Prayer is our most >valuable >> weapon now and so we must use it.=93 >> >> Still other friends and acquaintances from England and Wales have >spoken >> of >> the heartbreak, loss of so much, the travel restrictions, postings >upon >> their >> property and of the great sadness and distress in their areas; it is >> truly >> heart wrenching to hear of these things happening. >> >> My heart goes out to all of you and your country and I do hope that >this >> terrible situation can soon come to an end. Please keep us informed. >> >> Regards, >

Same here Jean, Some have been dated 27th ........ and I can't see them in my in box without hiding the read messages! Dave > The messages are coming in strange orders. I keep getting messages hours after I have read the replies. I guess the list will settle soon. > > Jean > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.230 / Virus Database: 111 - Release Date: 1/25/01 > > > ==== NORTHERN-ENGLAND Mailing List ==== > Remember be nice to one another, we only pass this way once but if we do it properly once is enough. It's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice. > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.231 / Virus Database: 112 - Release Date: 12-Feb-01