1911 is the first census filled in by the householder all previous census were filled in by a enumerater you can see his name on the first page of each schedule. Lots of villages had schools mostly run by the church or a benefactor of the village possibly the Lord of the Manor if you read "The Children of Booton" by Launa Gray available from the NFHS it gives you a clear understanding how these schools worked for farming families. Jean On 23 July 2014 08:00, <[email protected]> wrote: > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: NORFOLK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 185 (Glynn Burrows) > 2. Re: 1861 census place - Henry Sillett (Jean Greenwood) > 3. Re: 1861 census place - Henry Sillett (Nivard Ovington) > 4. Re: 1861 census place - Henry Sillett ([email protected]) > 5. Re: 1861 census place - Henry Sillett (Nivard Ovington) > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Glynn Burrows <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:05:02 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NFK] NORFOLK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 185 > Hi All > > In my researches into life in Norfolk in the 1860's, the majority of the > general population of this beautiful County could not read and write to a > standard sufficient to enable them to fill in the census forms. > Nearly all of the adults filling in the forms for the 1861 census would > have been born before 1840, with many of them having been born during the > late Georgian period. The education of the poorer classes in rural England > was just about non-existant before the 1850's, apart from the odd Dame > School and anything picked up in the Workhouse. > > > Glynn > http://www.norfolk-tours.co.uk > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Jean Greenwood <[email protected]> > To: Brian Sillett <[email protected]>, [email protected] > Cc: > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 13:48:51 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NFK] 1861 census place - Henry Sillett > Hi Brian > > P/c of the Brooke ​ PRs are accessible at > > https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1416598 > > scroll down to View Images in this collection and click on line below > then in alpha list is Brooke. > > I have looked through most of what is available including marriages to 1854 > but can find no trace of the family. > > Cheers > Jean > > > > > > On 22 July 2014 12:26, Brian Sillett via <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Nivard, > > > > I thank you for your continuing interest interest and suggestions. The > 1861 > > census has his age 58 but in 1871 he was 78 and given I have his death > > certificate in 1872 age 80, I assume 58 should have been 68 but it looks > > like 58 on the image. > > > > If he was 80 in 1872, his birth year is about 1792. Given his wife Ann on > > the 1861 census is age 40, it looks as if Henry had a previous wife. His > > birth places on all census records I have looked at are all unclear. > > > > I have yet to find Henry, Ann or daughter Margaret on the 1851 census and > > must have another go. I don't have any access to Brooke, Nfk records > where > > Ann and Margaret were born. > > > > Many thanks again > > > > Brian Sillett > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Nivard Ovington via > > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:52 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [NFK] 1861 census place - Henry Sillett > > > > As in the vast majority of cases, the householder or whoever he/she > > coerced into doing it, filled in the schedule > > > > So accent has very little to do with it > > > > It would have a lot to do with the writing style of the person filling > > it in though > > > > And much to be said of the ability of the enumerator to read that writing > > > > He made his best stab at it and thats what we see on the pages online, > > ie the enumerators interpretation of what was on the schedule > > > > If he hadn't come across the place name on the schedule, he would do his > > best but he may be far wide of the mark of the actual place > > > > As the household schedules were destroyed we will never know what was on > > the schedule > > > > Have you found the target in other census years? He must have been > > around for the 1851 at least > > > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > On 22/07/2014 10:17, elizabeth howard via wrote: > > > Hi, I thought it said Arborough , and immediately > > > thought > > > of Narborough , but even with a thick Norfolk accent ( no disrespect > > > intended) spoken to a Yorkshire speaking enumerator. almost anything > > could > > > have been understood incorrectly .......and yes Tilletts are also > > Silletts > > > , > > > the whole thing is as you say tricky ..... > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Cc: > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:18:16 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NFK] 1861 census place - Henry Sillett > Hi Glynn > > I would be interested to know how you come to the conclusion that you do > regarding the literacy of the population > > As there are few if any records which might contain their writing, its > very hard to say for sure, certainly the schedules are long gone > > One of the gauges used for literacy, is the ability to sign their names on > a marriage register, although flawed, even that shows a healthy percentage > signed their names by 1861 and is likely to understate literacy levels > rather than over state it > > People were in awe of authority, far more so than today, when the minister > said make your mark there, they did, regardless of their ability to write > their names, so if you gauge it on those who did sign, its likely there > were more with the ability rather than less > > Whilst there is absolutely no doubt that literacy was higher in the towns > than in the Countryside, it doesn't alter the fact that there would be > someone around who could fill in the schedule or help to do so in the > majority of cases > > The literacy levels are stated by several different sources as being > approx 75% for men and 65% for women by 1861 > > So take a worse case scenario that in the Countryside it was half that > > That means that more than three out of every ten people could write > > Its very hard to gauge distribution of literate people in every household > but you can see that in most households there would be someone who could > fill in the schedule, and for those that had no one, some will have had > friends, neighbours or relatives who could do it for them > > I just did a very small test sample, looking at Brooke marriage, I looked > at four pages in the register in 1837, so 24 marriages > > 29 out of 48 people signed their names in the register > > Thats approx 60% and thats is 1837, 24 years before the 1861 census > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 22/07/2014 13:05, Glynn Burrows via wrote: > >> Hi All >> >> In my researches into life in Norfolk in the 1860's, the majority of >> the general population of this beautiful County could not read and >> write to a standard sufficient to enable them to fill in the census >> forms. Nearly all of the adults filling in the forms for the 1861 >> census would have been born before 1840, with many of them having >> been born during the late Georgian period. The education of the >> poorer classes in rural England was just about non-existant before >> the 1850's, apart from the odd Dame School and anything picked up in >> the Workhouse. >> >> >> Glynn >> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: [email protected] > To: Jean Greenwood <[email protected]>, [email protected] > Cc: > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:28:27 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NFK] 1861 census place - Henry Sillett > I couldn't either- and I was just looking for a Margaret in case Henry in > his older age married a young widow. Is the registration on Free BMD at > Hartesmere Suffolk district likely to be the Margaret Sillett-can't see > any others to fit. > Rosie > On 22/07/2014 13:48, Jean Greenwood via wrote: > >> Hi Brian >> >> P/c of the Brooke ​ PRs are accessible at >> >> https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1416598 >> >> scroll down to View Images in this collection and click on line below >> then in alpha list is Brooke. >> >> I have looked through most of what is available including marriages to >> 1854 >> but can find no trace of the family. >> >> Cheers >> Jean >> >> >> >> >> >> On 22 July 2014 12:26, Brian Sillett via <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Nivard, >>> >>> I thank you for your continuing interest interest and suggestions. The >>> 1861 >>> census has his age 58 but in 1871 he was 78 and given I have his death >>> certificate in 1872 age 80, I assume 58 should have been 68 but it looks >>> like 58 on the image. >>> >>> If he was 80 in 1872, his birth year is about 1792. Given his wife Ann on >>> the 1861 census is age 40, it looks as if Henry had a previous wife. His >>> birth places on all census records I have looked at are all unclear. >>> >>> I have yet to find Henry, Ann or daughter Margaret on the 1851 census and >>> must have another go. I don't have any access to Brooke, Nfk records >>> where >>> Ann and Margaret were born. >>> >>> Many thanks again >>> >>> Brian Sillett >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Nivard Ovington via >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:52 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [NFK] 1861 census place - Henry Sillett >>> >>> As in the vast majority of cases, the householder or whoever he/she >>> coerced into doing it, filled in the schedule >>> >>> So accent has very little to do with it >>> >>> It would have a lot to do with the writing style of the person filling >>> it in though >>> >>> And much to be said of the ability of the enumerator to read that writing >>> >>> He made his best stab at it and thats what we see on the pages online, >>> ie the enumerators interpretation of what was on the schedule >>> >>> If he hadn't come across the place name on the schedule, he would do his >>> best but he may be far wide of the mark of the actual place >>> >>> As the household schedules were destroyed we will never know what was on >>> the schedule >>> >>> Have you found the target in other census years? He must have been >>> around for the 1851 at least >>> >>> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >>> >>> On 22/07/2014 10:17, elizabeth howard via wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, I thought it said Arborough , and immediately >>>> thought >>>> of Narborough , but even with a thick Norfolk accent ( no disrespect >>>> intended) spoken to a Yorkshire speaking enumerator. almost anything >>>> >>> could >>> >>>> have been understood incorrectly .......and yes Tilletts are also >>>> >>> Silletts >>> >>>> , >>>> the whole thing is as you say tricky ..... >>>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> > To: Brian Sillett <[email protected]>, [email protected] > Cc: > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:04:25 +0100 > Subject: Re: [NFK] 1861 census place - Henry Sillett > Hi Brian > > There are some serious problems regarding that 1861 household > > In 1861 there is a Henry SILLETT head married 58 rag collector ???borough > Norfolk > Ann SILLETT wife married 40 Brooke Norfolk > Margaret Jane SILLETT 11 Brooke Norfolk > > Going back to the 1851 census > > On Ancestry there are only four Ann* born 1819 to 1823 Brooke Norfolk > > Anne Palmer DARBY > > Mary Ann ELLIS > > Ann GADGE > > Ann SILAM > > None have a child Margaret b1850ish in Brooke or elsewhere > > Of Margaret, there are two born 1849 to 1851 Brooke Norfolk in the 1851, a > Margaret KENT to James & Sarah and an Eliza Margaret WARNER to Robert & > Charlotte > > The only Margaret SILLETT is registered in Hartismere in 1850 > > Brooke came under Lodden reg district but in the GRO there are no Margaret > Jane registered at all pre census > > There is but one registered in Dec qtr 1851 > > A Margaret Jane RICHES 13 207 but haven't found her after that > > In the 1871 entry he is stated as a widower but more telling is that he is > a lodger, so details may have been entered for him, rather than he himself > > He is enumerated as 78 a pedlar born what looks like Albrige Norfolk > Margaret is also a lodger unmarried aged 19 a housekeeper, born Brook > Norfolk > > Using the Genuki gazetteer the best options appear to be Alburgh or > Aldborough > > No amount of shaking the 1851 tree will make Henry fall out I am afraid > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 22/07/2014 12:26, Brian Sillett wrote: > >> Hi Nivard, >> >> I thank you for your continuing interest interest and suggestions. The >> 1861 census has his age 58 but in 1871 he was 78 and given I have his >> death certificate in 1872 age 80, I assume 58 should have been 68 but it >> looks like 58 on the image. >> >> If he was 80 in 1872, his birth year is about 1792. Given his wife Ann >> on the 1861 census is age 40, it looks as if Henry had a previous wife. >> His birth places on all census records I have looked at are all unclear. >> >> I have yet to find Henry, Ann or daughter Margaret on the 1851 census >> and must have another go. I don't have any access to Brooke, Nfk records >> where Ann and Margaret were born. >> >> Many thanks again >> >> Brian Sillett >> > > > To contact the NORFOLK list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the NORFOLK mailing list, send an email to > [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > >

Hi Jean Unless I interpret your comments wrongly? From 1841 to 1911 the census in England and Wales was conducted by leaving a schedule with the householder, to be filled in by them and collected after the census day, that schedule was then transcribed by the enumerator for 1841 to 1901, what we see today is the enumerators transcription (household schedules were destroyed) In 1911 they used new machinery to take information directly from the schedules and therefore enumerator transcription was unnecessary so the pages we see are in the householders own hand (or whoever they got to do it) they are also signed by the householder Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 23/07/2014 08:49, STANGROOM JEAN via wrote: > 1911 is the first census filled in by the householder all previous census > were filled in by a enumerater > you can see his name on the first page of each schedule. > > Lots of villages had schools mostly run by the church or a benefactor of > the village possibly the Lord of the Manor > if you read "The Children of Booton" by Launa Gray available from the NFHS > it gives you a clear understanding how > these schools worked for farming families. > > Jean