As in the vast majority of cases, the householder or whoever he/she coerced into doing it, filled in the schedule So accent has very little to do with it It would have a lot to do with the writing style of the person filling it in though And much to be said of the ability of the enumerator to read that writing He made his best stab at it and thats what we see on the pages online, ie the enumerators interpretation of what was on the schedule If he hadn't come across the place name on the schedule, he would do his best but he may be far wide of the mark of the actual place As the household schedules were destroyed we will never know what was on the schedule Have you found the target in other census years? He must have been around for the 1851 at least Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/07/2014 10:17, elizabeth howard via wrote: > Hi, I thought it said Arborough , and immediately thought > of Narborough , but even with a thick Norfolk accent ( no disrespect > intended) spoken to a Yorkshire speaking enumerator. almost anything could > have been understood incorrectly .......and yes Tilletts are also Silletts , > the whole thing is as you say tricky .....

I really doubt that all working class householders filled in the schedule unaided , given the number of x instead of signatures on marriage records right up to and after the National schools were opened. >From what I have seen of enumerators attempts at birthplaces when the householder is not local to the district, accent does play a significant part in what the enumerator writes down, If the householder was literate at a basic level it may also play a part in how they spell the name of their village. The problems we are having finding this have much to do with the inability of the paid transcribers working for commercial geneaology companies to read cursive/copperplate writing properly which makes using the indexes impossible. Quite often the enumerators have it right, but transcribers law, forbidding the use of lists of place names to make sense of what they are seeing, makes a bodge of it. Rosie On 22/07/2014 10:52, Nivard Ovington via wrote: > As in the vast majority of cases, the householder or whoever he/she > coerced into doing it, filled in the schedule > > So accent has very little to do with it > > It would have a lot to do with the writing style of the person filling > it in though > > And much to be said of the ability of the enumerator to read that writing > > He made his best stab at it and thats what we see on the pages online, > ie the enumerators interpretation of what was on the schedule > > If he hadn't come across the place name on the schedule, he would do his > best but he may be far wide of the mark of the actual place > > As the household schedules were destroyed we will never know what was on > the schedule > > Have you found the target in other census years? He must have been > around for the 1851 at least > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > On 22/07/2014 10:17, elizabeth howard via wrote: >> Hi, I thought it said Arborough , and immediately thought >> of Narborough , but even with a thick Norfolk accent ( no disrespect >> intended) spoken to a Yorkshire speaking enumerator. almost anything could >> have been understood incorrectly .......and yes Tilletts are also Silletts , >> the whole thing is as you say tricky ..... > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Rosie I fear its a bit of a myth that the majority of the working class were as thick as a brick and illiterate I have read many sources on the subject and most conclude that literacy was around the 75% mark for males and 65% for females by the 1860's The following is one article on the subject but I have found most come to the same or similar conclusions <http://richardjohnbr.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/literacy-revised-version.html> It has to be remembered that it was not necessary for everyone in a household to write to fill in a schedule, or even in one street or group of houses, if no one in a household could write, a friend or relative usually could, granted some better than others but write all the same, I suspect a few pennies passed hands at the same time Added to that the poor old enumerator was paid a fixed price for doing the job, he left a schedule with each household or part thereof a week or so in advance, to be filled in by the householder or whoever they got to do it, the enumerator collected up the schedules the day or so after the census day, he then had to sort them in order (to the list he made out before the census) then transcribe the lot and return the results to his superior within 7 or 8 days He simply would not have had the time to fill in the schedules himself for more than a few households (which undoubtedly he did do for some) It wasn't accent so much as the lack of knowledge of other places that was the problem for many enumerators, coupled with hard to read handwriting by many different hands I struggle to read letters from my mother to and from my father in the 1940's, much less other peoples writing, so have every sympathy with the poor old enumerators The problem in this instance has nothing to do with transcribers, most of whom have done a sterling job in bringing us the transcripts we have access to, granted some are a tad wavy but in the main they are a reasonable reflection of what is on the pages Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/07/2014 11:34, [email protected] wrote: > I really doubt that all working class householders filled in the > schedule unaided , given the number of x instead of signatures on > marriage records right up to and after the National schools were opened. > From what I have seen of enumerators attempts at birthplaces when the > householder is not local to the district, accent does play a significant > part in what the enumerator writes down, If the householder was literate > at a basic level it may also play a part in how they spell the name of > their village. > The problems we are having finding this have much to do with the > inability of the paid transcribers working for commercial geneaology > companies to read cursive/copperplate writing properly which makes using > the indexes impossible. Quite often the enumerators have it right, but > transcribers law, forbidding the use of lists of place names to make > sense of what they are seeing, makes a bodge of it. > Rosie

Hi Nivard, I thank you for your continuing interest interest and suggestions. The 1861 census has his age 58 but in 1871 he was 78 and given I have his death certificate in 1872 age 80, I assume 58 should have been 68 but it looks like 58 on the image. If he was 80 in 1872, his birth year is about 1792. Given his wife Ann on the 1861 census is age 40, it looks as if Henry had a previous wife. His birth places on all census records I have looked at are all unclear. I have yet to find Henry, Ann or daughter Margaret on the 1851 census and must have another go. I don't have any access to Brooke, Nfk records where Ann and Margaret were born. Many thanks again Brian Sillett -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington via Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:52 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [NFK] 1861 census place - Henry Sillett As in the vast majority of cases, the householder or whoever he/she coerced into doing it, filled in the schedule So accent has very little to do with it It would have a lot to do with the writing style of the person filling it in though And much to be said of the ability of the enumerator to read that writing He made his best stab at it and thats what we see on the pages online, ie the enumerators interpretation of what was on the schedule If he hadn't come across the place name on the schedule, he would do his best but he may be far wide of the mark of the actual place As the household schedules were destroyed we will never know what was on the schedule Have you found the target in other census years? He must have been around for the 1851 at least Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 22/07/2014 10:17, elizabeth howard via wrote: > Hi, I thought it said Arborough , and immediately > thought > of Narborough , but even with a thick Norfolk accent ( no disrespect > intended) spoken to a Yorkshire speaking enumerator. almost anything could > have been understood incorrectly .......and yes Tilletts are also Silletts > , > the whole thing is as you say tricky ..... ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message